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Riiiggghhhhtttt because everybody else soooo honest. So within a month, we've had the cofounder of Broadcom busted for drug trafficking, Google paying Andy Rubin $90 million after coercing an employee to have sex, Facebook hacked and leaking 30 million user's info AFTER the Cambridge Analytica scandal and Elon smoking a blunt on JRE after accusing a guy, who saved those people trapped in that cave, a pedo on Twitter bc hd didn't want to use his tinker toy. Nvm Qualcomm's greedy ass for trying to squeeze Apple, Samsung, etc. over their modems.

But yeah Apple is shady.

Apple IS shady. Just because others are doesn't excuse Apple's own tactics.
 
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I don’t agree with Apple’s pricing, but I don’t go in their store and take things without paying. Funny that they have no problem doing the same thing.

If you don’t like the deal, then try to renegotiate or wait until it is up. Withholding $7 billion in payments is not right. They need to get smacked down for this.

Apple is currently paying for the Qualcomm chip, it’s the second royalty charge they are withholding until Qualcomm agrees to FRAND pricing.

Apple may have already paid $10 Billion to Qualcomm for these chips of which is a fair price.

Like buying a new MacBook for a retail price then getting a second bill from Apple because it’s has an Apple logo on it.
 
Apple IS shady. Just because others are doesn't excuse Apple's own tactics.

Apple are nasty pieces of work behind the shiny frontage and admittedly gorgeous looking designs. Just one of multiple examples on YouTube of "Genius" speaking absolute nonsense.

Charging thousands for a bent PIN


Trying to charge a kid $1500 for a new laptop gpu for - this time - what is a magnet sensor pin issue


And calling a popcorned CPU liquid damage

 
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Qualcomm doesn't rely upon one company to provide most of it's income.

Shakeup at executive level... because Apple and China are extorting the company? The current CEO prevented a hostile takeover by China (Broadcom), but admittedly he was screwed by the Chinese blocking a Qualcomm takeover of NXP.

It is not double dipping because the patents that Apple is violating have little to nothing to do with those chips. Apple is making lots of money profiting from technology developed by Qualcomm. Apple agreed to pay a certain amount and then skipped out on the bill. Dine and Dash is not cool when you are rich.

Broadcom is in Singapore tho...
 
Not good to rely on one company to provide most of your companies income.

If Apple is destroying their business they need a shake up at the executive level.

I agree with Apple they are double dipping. Greedy.

1. Qualcomm makes ~20-30 billion in revenue each year. Apple's a big player but by no means all their business.
2. It's a dispute that covers multiple years (over which time their revenue woulda been hundreds of billions). Think 50 million iPhones being sold a quarter (say ~200 million+ a year) times however many dollars per phone and you are easily up in the billions. Over a 10 year period, 7 billion is a drop in the water for two companies of that size (it'd be within a common margin of error and would likely include a bunch of technicalities about what accounting methods are being used...etc and whether certain categories of chips should be counted... or how to calculate a discount for a category of chips...etc).

I know the numbers sound big/greedy to your average punter but for multinationals and investment banks...etc I can totally see how a disputed calculation method could lead to total revenue over say 10 years being $7 billion more/less depending on how you've done your maths. This isn't greed, it's just business. I'm sure anybody with a patent would wanna count the beans while the sun shines because the patent only gives them exclusivity for so long (and you'd wanna maximise that). Put yourself in heir shoes. If they lose 5% in total over the life of the patent (due to some incorrect bean counting) then that could cost them trillions of dollars. Of course you'd try to defend it!!!

Ultimately the court will decide and I dunno about the facts to decide either way. However, it's a pretty blind fanboy statement to say that such claims are purely out of greed and have no factual basis. I deal with multinationals and investment banks on a daily basis... I don't see $7 billion as being a huge/fictitious number for players of this nature.
 
They say Apple has agreed to the business model for years. That doesn’t sound like an agreement contract to me, it sounds like Apple was willingly paying for both chip and patents and finally said we don’t need to any more because we can design our own technologies.
 
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If you signed a contract for this deal, no matter how bad a deal it is, then you need to honor it.

Signing a deal does not necessarily make it legal. The law always rules over any deal.

Otherwise - as an extreme example - you could legally allow someone to take your life. You can’t, it’s murder. (With the door exception of euthanasia - which is very strongly regulated and justifiablely so)
 
A deal is a deal. You pay for the deal you signed. Holding back payments is chicken ****.

Seems black-and-white to me. They agree on a price, and Apple pays it. I don't get why Qualcomm claims Apple just didn't pay them $7B they must've agreed upon in written records.

That’s not how contract law works in every instance. As a general matter, yes, contract prices in excess of the FMV are enforceable, but not if there is fraud in the inducement or if the party seeking enforcement (Qualcomm) knew that the other party was relying on a mistaken fact.

I don’t know all of the details of the particular contracts at issue in this case, but it does seem that when Apple and Qualcomm first entered into the licensing agreement, there was an understanding that the price was $X, but subsequent to that antitrust rulings across the globe (pretty much everywhere except the US) against Qualcomm threw into doubt the true FMV of the license. Qualcomm can be imputed to know that its license would be vulnerable to such regulatory review, since antitrust penalties can only be enforced if there is scientor.

If that is what occurred, the contract is voidable at Apple’s election, and the court would grant damages to Qualcomm equal to the gap between what Apple paid and what the FRAND rate would have been over the relevant period.

I don’t know what that damages award would be, but my guess, given that Apple can afford the very best IP lawyers, is that it’s below $7 billion.
 
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Apple's going to end up paying most of this out once they settle. I'm surprised at how brazen Tim has gotten about this stuff. Apple spent decades being a bully. I guess they learned the ropes.

It’s not that simple at all. I imagine you bought an iPhone and tomorrow Apple says okay you need to pay us $X every time you use it as well. Not knowing better you pay a couple times, but now you think maybe it’s not right?

So you stop paying these extra payments and you go to court in the meantime.

You want the court to clearly define those things. If Apple lets Qualcomm do this what to stop Samsung, Intel, any of the other component manufacturers from doing this?

What we should really be unhappy is all these lawmakers who know jack squat about technology and how if even works or they are making laws only to appease only a certain group of people or get votes.


Recently a friend of mine running a long time business was sued by one of his employees. In every instance he was right but there was this piece of paper that he had to have his employees sign that he didn’t. Even though he treated all the employees the best and they all knew this, because of this one greedy employee he has now had to close the company and everyone has to be let go. Although that the law was written to protect the employees from exploitation, itfail to account that perhaps if you forget to sign this piece of paper there is no say to go back and have everyone sign it. Basically if you forgot to sign this one piece of paper you were screwed forever. The law to this day has no remedy for this, so if someone goes to sues the employee back in this instance in hope that it will reach a higher court and the law fixed does the company become a bully? Do you know there are many lawyers that charge zero to the employees but my friend was paying millions out of legal fees instead of expanding business, giving bonuses, providing for his community?


It’s hard to take the side of a trillion dollar company and maybe Apple has gotten brazen, but it’s about time, because clearly the laws and rules of the game are not defined properly and someone needs to go to court for there to be a way to clarify it.
 
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Gotta say there are a lot of uneducated people commenting on how deal is a deal :) Go play lawyer somewhere else.
 
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I think I'll buy a phone from Apple for over $1000, but 6 months in, feel it's overpriced and let Apple know as I now feel this, I'll be stopping future payments ;)
I'm sure they will understand.
 
"The house is on fire and ..."

Yes, the house is certainly on fire. At least Qualcomm's lawyer is smart enough to recognize that. Hopefully the company management will recognize what their lawyer does.
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I think I'll buy a phone from Apple for over $1000, but 6 months in, feel it's overpriced and let Apple know as I now feel this, I'll be stopping future payments ;)
I'm sure they will understand.

If I am understanding correctly, a better analogy would be if you paid Apple $1000 for your phone, and then they also charged you $300 each month for the 'holding in hand' fee when you used it. Eventually, you go, 'hey, none of the other phone makers have a 'holding in hand' fee, and stop paying that.
 
Qualcomm should just stop delivering the chips hehe. Apple believes they can do just about anything business wise. Sadly their products no longer have the quality they used to and they’re as good as their products.
 
This is the problem, apple hasn't paid a cent and it has added up to $7billion now

Lol! Qualcomm should cooperate with Apple and maybe accept half of this outrageous sum. If they weren’t so anticompetitive maybe they wouldn’t be in this mess.

Apple should just threaten them with a hostile takeover and I’m sure they will accept $3.5 billion rather quickly.

OK they’re worth almost $92 billion. This is not chump change even for Apple but a controlling interest would cost $46-50 billion or so and then they could make that back from all of the Android OEMs. They all rely on Qualcomm except for Samsung abroad with their Exynos, which is ironically a better SoC.
 
So much fanboyism! Nobody here has seen any agreements or signed documents between the two, hence can’t have any idea what’s really going on.
Apple is no saint. Didn’t they ruin another company recently? The one responsible for manufacturing sapphire glass.

No. That company lied about what they were able to produce, and then bailed on the deal and tried to leave Apple holding the bag. Instead, Apple seized a factory and repurposed it. That sapphire company also bailed on their shareholders and screwed them after lying to secure the deal honestly.
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So qualcomm wants a percentage cut out of every iphone sale and apple thinks its unfair?

Yet apple takes a percentage cut out of every appstore sale...

The App Store is not an industry standard with FRAND in play.
 
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No. That company lied about what they were able to produce, and then bailed on the deal and tried to leave Apple holding the bag. Instead, Apple seized a factory and repurposed it. That sapphire company also bailed on their shareholders and screwed them after lying to secure the deal honestly.
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The App Store is not an industry standard with FRAND in play.
Well, that company had to buy all the furnaces and when Apple was not happy with the yield rates, Apple called it quits leaving the other party with a huge debt. The owner bailed on the shareholders only when Apple was already out of the picture. So Apple pulled the plug first. I would never ever defend Apple in anything. They’re notorious liars and just a typical big corporation.
When Qualcomm was the only modem supplier, they were ok with all the terms. When Intel offered Apple a better cut, they decided that Qualcomm rates were “not fair”. They had agreeed to those terms in the first place. Apple is being typical Apple: their way or no way. The same sort of BS we saw with the whole situation with Flash.
 
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Apple is currently paying for the Qualcomm chip, it’s the second royalty charge they are withholding until Qualcomm agrees to FRAND pricing.

Apple may have already paid $10 Billion to Qualcomm for these chips of which is a fair price.

Like buying a new MacBook for a retail price then getting a second bill from Apple because it’s has an Apple logo on it.

FRAND doesn't mean free or cheap. It means the deal should be fair (similar pricing for all customers, not a bigger bill for rich customers). Since most private contracts are private, can you show which Qualcomm customers are getting a better deal than Apple? How is it not FRAND?
 
Now you're just being an apologist.

You're like a Trump supporter; nothing, no matter what Apple does, you'll still support them.
I don't think you're the one to make that accusation here, since most people know you as the person who only makes Apple-bashing posts no matter the circumstance. Which I wouldn't normally say, but now that you're insulting people...
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A deal is not a deal when you are getting screwed.
That happens all the time.
 
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