Apple needs to pay what they agreed to and stop bullying their suppliers.
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Qualcomm Seeks iPhone and iPad Import Ban in the United States
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Thank you. Live and learn.
Wondering then, whether they would be able to stop production at the fabs, if these chips go into Apple products ?
The same place as any other factory gets them.
Note that often the most costly components are made in the USA anyway. CPU and memory were made by Samsung in Austin TX. Touch and power controllers are US designed and used to be made here.
If Apple contracted a Texas factory just to serve the US market, they'd save on shipping complete boxed units as well, since they wouldn't have to be flown overseas. See below.
Motorola made both stock and customized Moto X phones in a Flextronics factory in Dallas-Ft Worth. They said it only cost them an extra $8-10 a unit, and even perhaps $2 of that could be dropped in shipment savings to US customers.
Note that Apple already uses Flextronics in Austin to make Macs in the US, so it's hardly a pipe dream to think that iPhones could be made here too.
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No, his most certainly is not. However, in those "advisor meetings" Timmy is always on his (R) side. That is telling with someone like Donnie.
You mean the guy in the back behind Peter Thiel?
Well, whoever that is, he is no Steve
When two parties tell contradicting stories... one of them is lying. We'll just have to wait and see who.
I personally think Qualcomm is being wayy too cocky... Apple is a world-class company and a very respected employment creator in the US... seeking to ban all of its mobile products is just stupid! Samsung got the court to do it once and it was immediately reversed by a Presidential Executive Order.
I personally think Qualcomm is being wayy too cocky... Apple is a world-class company and a very respected employment creator in the US... seeking to ban all of its mobile products is just stupid! Samsung got the court to do it once and it was immediately reversed by a Presidential Executive Order.
As I've explained in multiple posts, it's lawyer handwaving. Apple claims that chips should include a license. Note that baseband chipmakers don't currently pay for the license Apple desires, so this claim is bogus already. It's really a desire on Apple's part.
Apple desires this because they want to more easily convince courts to base royalties on the relatively tiny price of chips, which get cheaper to make all the time. That of course ignores the constant value of the IP needed to use the chips, which Qualcomm sells separately from chips (same as Nokia, Ericsson, Motorola, Samsung and dozens of others).
So in typical Apple lawyer self-referencing logic, their claim that a chip should include a license magically becomes proof of "double dipping".
Apple isn't withholding payments to Qualcomm, since they have no license with Qualcomm. Instead, they're strong-arming their contract manufacturers who do.
In the case of Apple devices, those are Foxconn, Pegatron, Wistron and Compal, and they are the QCOM licensees. They've had contracts for years with Qualcomm (some long before there ever was an iPhone), and have always paid the same rate no matter who made the modem chip used in any device they assembled, and no matter for whom the device was made.
But now Apple stopped reimbursing those companies for the royalties they were paying Qualcomm, which sure seems like a breach of contract between them and Apple. Note that Apple still expects to ship and sell the phones being made, even though they're paying the factories LESS for them now. That's partly why others here are talking about supplier abuse.
This payment shortage leaves the factories in between a rock and hard spot, and thus they have had to stop paying QCOM.
That's why Qualcomm is suing those four companies for non-payment of their license fees. And Apple for coercing them.
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It was a ridiculous over ruling, I literally do not know of any other company that has gone crying to the leader of its home country when they lose in court, a court which by all intense and purposes based its judgement on fair and reasonable evidence, a court bound by law and sworn oaths.
It has absolutely NOTHING to do with it being America, because like I stated, I do not know of any other company that has done what Apple did.... or are you implying that Apple is some sort of higher level of American compared to other companies like Qualcomm?
Haha, how exactly? You totally imagined it and you know it. Reads to me like your trying to save face now.
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In my eyes Qualcomm has a hell of a strong case to sue everyone else, because of the way Apple has gone about this, if literally gives them the power to control the price of ANY component no matter who it comes from to make its way into the iPhone. It's flat out wrong and seems highly a illegal monopoly practice.
The legal battle between Qualcomm and Apple continues to escalate, with Qualcomm asking the United States International Trade Commission (ITC) to block imports of select iPhone and iPad models, reports Fortune. Qualcomm also wants to stop sales of devices that are already in the United States and has filed a new patent infringement case against Apple in the Southern District of California.
According to Qualcomm, Apple is infringing on six Qualcomm patents related to carrier aggregation and technologies that are designed to allow iPhones to save battery life while communicating. The six patents cited by Qualcomm were granted between 2013 and 2017 and are not licensed or standard-essential patents that are part of the ongoing Qualcomm v. Apple battle over royalty payments.
Qualcomm is asking the ITC to block all iPhones that are equipped with LTE chips from competing mobile communications companies, which would include AT&T and T-Mobile iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus models equipped with Intel chips, along with some iPad models. In an interview, Qualcomm lawyer Don Rosenberg said Qualcomm is pursuing another lawsuit and an import ban because Apple is not willing to pay for the technology it uses.As noted in Qualcomm's ITC request, a possible ban on the iPhone 7, iPhone 7 Plus, and future iPhones wouldn't happen for approximately 18 months, so it would not affect the devices Apple plans to release in September of 2017. Qualcomm expects the ITC to look into the complaint in August and schedule a trial for 2018, and it believes the new patent infringement case filed today could be put on hold until the ITC makes a decision on the import ban.
The dispute between Apple and Qualcomm kicked off in January, when the FTC complained that Qualcomm had engaged in anticompetitive patent licensing practices. Apple sued Qualcomm for $1 billion shortly after, accusing the company of charging unfair royalties for "technologies they have nothing to do with" and refusing to pay quarterly rebates.
Qualcomm countersued in April, accusing Apple of breaching licensing agreements, making false statements, and encouraging regulatory attacks against Qualcomm, which prompted Apple to stop making royalty payments to Qualcomm entirely until a court can determine the proper amount due.
Since then, the two companies have been fighting a bitter public battle. Apple in late June expanded its lawsuit against Qualcomm and accused the wireless chipmaker of "double-dipping" with unfair patent licensing agreements. According to Apple, Qualcomm has overcharged it by billions of dollars, while Qualcomm says its innovations are "at the heart of every iPhone."
Alongside its dispute with Apple, Qualcomm is also now facing an FTC lawsuit for using anticompetitive tactics to remain the dominant supplier of baseband processors for smartphones.
Article Link: Qualcomm Seeks iPhone and iPad Import Ban in the United States
I guess if you can't rake in enough money legitimately...you just turn to the lawyers. What was it that Shakespeare had to say about lawyers?
The legal battle between Qualcomm and Apple continues to escalate, with Qualcomm asking the United States International Trade Commission (ITC) to block imports of select iPhone and iPad models, reports Fortune. Qualcomm also wants to stop sales of devices that are already in the United States and has filed a new patent infringement case against Apple in the Southern District of California.
According to Qualcomm, Apple is infringing on six Qualcomm patents related to carrier aggregation and technologies that are designed to allow iPhones to save battery life while communicating. The six patents cited by Qualcomm were granted between 2013 and 2017 and are not licensed or standard-essential patents that are part of the ongoing Qualcomm v. Apple battle over royalty payments.
Qualcomm is asking the ITC to block all iPhones that are equipped with LTE chips from competing mobile communications companies, which would include AT&T and T-Mobile iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus models equipped with Intel chips, along with some iPad models. In an interview, Qualcomm lawyer Don Rosenberg said Qualcomm is pursuing another lawsuit and an import ban because Apple is not willing to pay for the technology it uses.As noted in Qualcomm's ITC request, a possible ban on the iPhone 7, iPhone 7 Plus, and future iPhones wouldn't happen for approximately 18 months, so it would not affect the devices Apple plans to release in September of 2017. Qualcomm expects the ITC to look into the complaint in August and schedule a trial for 2018, and it believes the new patent infringement case filed today could be put on hold until the ITC makes a decision on the import ban.
The dispute between Apple and Qualcomm kicked off in January, when the FTC complained that Qualcomm had engaged in anticompetitive patent licensing practices. Apple sued Qualcomm for $1 billion shortly after, accusing the company of charging unfair royalties for "technologies they have nothing to do with" and refusing to pay quarterly rebates.
Qualcomm countersued in April, accusing Apple of breaching licensing agreements, making false statements, and encouraging regulatory attacks against Qualcomm, which prompted Apple to stop making royalty payments to Qualcomm entirely until a court can determine the proper amount due.
Since then, the two companies have been fighting a bitter public battle. Apple in late June expanded its lawsuit against Qualcomm and accused the wireless chipmaker of "double-dipping" with unfair patent licensing agreements. According to Apple, Qualcomm has overcharged it by billions of dollars, while Qualcomm says its innovations are "at the heart of every iPhone."
Alongside its dispute with Apple, Qualcomm is also now facing an FTC lawsuit for using anticompetitive tactics to remain the dominant supplier of baseband processors for smartphones.
Article Link: Qualcomm Seeks iPhone and iPad Import Ban in the United States
You mean the guy in the back behind Peter Thiel?
Well, whoever that is, he is no Steve
Old Photo Dude. This is after Elon quit. Looks like he just sold his soul, eh?
Most of iPhone's parts are in China. Also you're comparing LOW VOLUME products to HIGH VOLUME.
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You're trying to save face. You mentioned America and crying to Obama without mentioning specifics as to why Apple would likely be banned in this case compared to the Samsung one.
I mentioned America because that's where it happened. I stated a 'fact' and you seem to be trying to turn my comment into some sort of racist nationalist thing? Not sure how else I'm supposed to say it?
It's not my problem this actually happened in America. My point is about APPLE not the country they did this in.
This is what I said:
And as for specifics? Well it's already been pointed out, as per the topic of this article, the patents Qualcomm want the ban enforced for are very strong and not under FRAND etc. I don't know how the case will go, I was highlighting the factual history of Apple and sales bans.
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You're referencing your previous comment (crying to Obama) with "So I won't be surprised" as the reason for Apple's likely ban.
Nothing in your post is talking about FRAND.
The ITC is not the FTC.
The ITC is the same group that granted the ban to Apple over Samsung.
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Since some of them were granted later, they are reviewing possible patent vilations and Apple appears to infringe and so does Intel.
Since these are not FRAND, there is no requirement to license and Apple/Intel or others will need to pay whatever Qualcomm wants. The Patents related to CDMA and LTE are FRAND. But Apple even thinks FRAND fees are too much.
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It's the ITC, there is no place to punt. The International Trade Commission is the court of last resort.
Apple won't try to "Squeeze" Qualcomm if Qualcomm didn't originally stop giving Apple the quarterly kickbacks for over a year, as its way of punishing Apple for cooperating with South Korean government's anti-monopoly investigation against Qualcomm.
You really need to read this:
Obama Admin's Decision To Overturn Apple's ITC Import Ban Was The Right One
So what? There's no difference between shipping parts and completed units over, except that the latter apparently takes up more space because of the boxes and thus costs much more.
This is the USA. Despite the self-serving remarks of clever wordsmiths like Tim Cook, we are able to have plenty of manufacturing ability if we want it. And in fact, many manufacturers are realizing that their products were made much better in the USA than China, and are returning to their roots.
As for volume, the US sales market is about 50 million iPhones a year or four million a month. As noted in this article about the Moto X plant, they figured there was no problem scaling it up to tens of millions.
https://www.theverge.com/2013/9/11/4717796/made-in-america-a-look-inside-motorolas-moto-x-factory
Almost. You can go from the ITC to a Federal appeals court (which turns over only about 15% of ITC decisions), or appeal to the US Trade Representative (effectively the White House), who normally only intervenes once every couple of decades.
Did you read it yourself? It defended the previous White House intervention because the patents were FRAND. That does not apply in this case.
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Your getting confused now, I was answering your comment regarding this current case, hence my comment on FRAND.
I hate defending the guy you're quoting, but you're completely mis-understanding what he's saying.
Historically, Apple has faced an ITC ban due to their own infringing on another companies rights.
Apple, instead of honoring the ban. Went to the executive branch of the USA and asked the leadership (Obama) to interject and veto / ignore / whatever presidents can do the ban allowing Apple t continue to import the iPhone at the time and sell it.
this set a precedent, that should Apple receive another ITC ban, that they would likely repeat their past behaviour and go to the president again to have the ban ignored.
I'm not sure why you think anything about FRAND. he's not saying whether or not he thinks they'll be banned, just IF they are banned, that is their likely course of action.
Time for a history lesson here. Steve Jobs spent billions developing the iPhone and bet the future of Apple on its success. It was a wise bet, the iPhone was the most innovative and most successful consumer electronics device ever invented. Then corrupt fat-cat Qualcomm came along, saw Apple was making money hand over fist, and decided to extort billions from Steve Jobs and his company. Qualcomm invented nothing, they are not capable of innovation. All they are capable of is stealing from real innovators, companies like Apple who invent the future. Qualcomm should be put out of business by RICO, just like the mafia was. They are a leech on society and on the world.
I hope this is satire
Yes, the iPhone is what you said...
But you went off the rails on attacking Qcom
The iPhone would literally still be an iPod if not for Qualcomms work and invention in the cellular communication industry
They can argue all they want about how much that is worth to either party, but let's not make absolutely nonsensical statements here
Yes, a history lesson is definitely needed.
From trials and interviews, we know that Apple only spent about $150 million creating the iPhone.
It's Qualcomm who has spent billions, starting many years before the iPhone ever existed, creating 2G / 3G / 4G / 5G technology, without which Apple could not have made their later billions off the iPhone.
Uh, no. Foxconn already had a license from Qualcomm years before the iPhone, and Apple has always taken a ride on that license instead of getting their own.
Moreover, Foxconn's rate did not change for the iPhone, so no, Apple was not charged more because of who they were. If anything, they got an effectively lower rate, if you believe their claim that they were getting billions in rebates from Qualcomm.
Wow. It's the silly season for sure.
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So what? It makes more sense to assemble the phone near where most of the parts are.
I don't care what Motorola CLAIMS they can do because it actually hasn't HAPPENED. Besides they aren't making iPhones, they're making low grade phones.
It's more efficient for Apple to make all their 50-80M iPhones PER QUARTER in a centralized location.
Look at iPhone manufacturing in Brazil. http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0N40CP20150413
Job creation is a lot lower than expected. Bringing iPhone manufacturing jobs to the US is a pipe dream and the jobs are crap. Learn new skills, oh wait, but Trumpy is killing those programs that teach you new skills. It's easier to blame others though for one's own shortcomings.
I think you're confused and misspoke.
It sets a precedent that Apple would likely go to the executive branch, but it doesn't mean that it's likely that Apple would be banned.
Even if the iPhone cost $1 in R&D, that's quite disrespectful to the thousands of talented engineers that poured their heart and dedication into the iPhone.
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Often, such as right now, it seems like these big companies are begin run by children. Imagine if in business, copyright infringement and the theft of ideas were treated like plagiarism is treated is schools.