Quanta to Produce New iMacs

[Dont Hurt Me]

thanks 1macker1, this would free the emac to go faster with g4's, i think all the debate of monitor will soon go mute because monitors are becoming so large. heck give me a 20" wide screen sitting on my desk and i wont need a arm holding it ill need a couch so i can lay down and watch movies & surf & game, oh yeah work to.

 

[asphalt-proof]

Most folks that I know, set it, then leave it alone.

For me I am constanlty adjusting the monitor of my iMac. I find that my body moves ever so slightly while sitting and necessitates a monitor adjustment. That is one reason I love working on my iMac rather than on my laptop where I have to adjust myself to the keyboard, screen etc. Makes more sence to just move the monitor.

Someone attached a photo of the Sony W. I liked the idea so looked at one at Compusa. Not impressed. I want to be able to use my keyboard w/out being on top of my screen.

The idea of an all-in-one LCD with the CPU from behind... its been done before by Gateway. The screen has limited mobility up and down. Not a good design in my opinion. And its not upgradeable. (of course niether is the iMac.) You don't see those things flying off the sales floor do you?

I doubt that they would make the iMac more upgradeable because that cuts into future sales. Why buy a whole new computer when you can just upgrade the CPU and graphics card and get the same effect for whole lot cheaper? Make the iMac cheaper ($500-600) than you have a great computer for a year or two, chuck it and get a new one. Can they produce it for cheaper? Maybe. At that price point? no way.

I am excited to think of the new iMac. I'm sure that I will be blown away but I doubt that it will mirror something like the Sony W or Gateway Profile. Nor do I think it will go with a removeable "head" that would be insanely expensive and not fit the cost of a consumer model.

By the way, you are obviously a Slashdot reader Phil of Mac. Loved the inside joke.

 

[meta-ghost]

China is not South Africa

Originally posted by Exponent
OK, while I like my stuff to be made in the U.S., I am cool with things being made in Taiwan, as they are a free country with good civil rights. They've held the line for freedom in the face of mainland China across the straits threatening them both with words and an ever-growing missile battery aimed at them.

But according to this article, which I hope isn't true, Quanta is shifting production over to Shanghai on the mainland. Crap.

For those that don't know why I'm throwing a conniption fit over this, China continues to have a horrible, horrible human rights record, and nobody seems to care about it, provided they make cheap stuff.

Are you a religious person? You better belong to the "Official" version of your church, or you may be prosecuted and your church leaders thrown in jail. The real Catholic Cardinal for China died in jail last year, because he wouldn't recognize the supremacy of the "Official Chinese" Catholic church.

Are you someone who'd like more than one kid? You better hide it well or bugger out of the country, because the government might just force an abortion on you or your spouse.

Are you an engineer wanting to design a cool chip, maybe for communication? Well, now Motorola engineering offices in China have Communist party political officers stationed in them, looking over your shoulder.

Are you a factory worker? Pay attention to this quote from the AI article: "In the new manufacturing facility, labor, electricity, tax and government fees will account for only 5 percent of manufacturing costs..." Nice to know your labor rates will support a nice livable community...

One last thing: When I first started working with Chinese engineers in this country, it was right after the Tiananmen Square massacre, and they seemed to truly appreciate the freedom of the west, and how wrong the Communists were.

Now the new ones coming over are just fine with repression - they have all kinds of excuses for why it is justified. I have yet to meet a new Chinese immigrant (in the last 5 years) with an interest in defending basic human rights. And they're coming over here, to California, by the boatloads.

So, a fine place to make an iMac, eh? Crap.

EDIT: Corrected spelling and grammar mistakes

American ignorance of China (both from the Right and the Left) is sometimes just too much. This is an Apple rumors web site and people who wander away from topics like how their motherboard works sometimes end up saying ridiculous things.

As someone who has lived, worked and traveled in China for 15 years I can tell you that the starting point for any conversation about China has to be the following:
China has a burden that no other country shares - the simaltaneous existance of every stage of economic development since true village life. Side by side, nearly 1/4 of the worlds population. Agrarian, Industrial Revolution, High Tech and everything in between. It is living history.

If democracy comes, it will not be overnight.

To the uneducated, it sounds scary that a Communist official must have a high postition in every company. The reality is that these people are seen as adding nothing real to the business and in the end this helps build resentment and distance between the people who will in fact run China and the Communist.

If you haven't met a recent Chinese immigrant who will defend "basic human rights" maybe you aren't listening (or are asking the wrong questions). To reduce this to a question of a form of government is not helpful. In addition, to call China a Dictatorship is entirely inaccurate. There are many good people in the Chinese government struggling against evil.

China is big country and their is plenty of evidence that involvment with the West has brought about serious democratic changes. China is not what South Africa used to be. The divestment movement that hit US universities in the mid-80s indeed helped overthrow what was a tiny fraction of people brutalizing a majority. China is a large complex space that can't be treated with simple pronouncements.

 

[sketchy]

Originally posted by sushi
Not even close!!!

Are you even looking at the URLs that I post before replying?

Do you have any idea what the capabilities of the devices are?

I would suggest that you look into them before replying. You might be surprised as to what is out there.

Sushi

I saw this on tech TV and it seems like sony is trying to make the machine do too much, and the flipping keyboard is just plain silly. if it is half way up it is a tv, if it s 2/3 f the way up it is a stereo.

seems like a non functional feature that is likely to break at some point.

 

[machinehien]

what does "FP" mean in "FP iMac"? Other than that I could follow most of the thread.

 

[sketchy]

Originally posted by machinehien
what does "FP" mean in "FP iMac"? Other than that I could follow most of the thread.

flat panel

 

[iMeowbot]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
being flexible is right and currently the only thing flexible is the neck ,they need flexibility with graphics card, a pci slot or two, & purchase with/without monitor.

It appears that what you're really after is a cheaper PowerMac rather than a more expandable iMac. I understand why people want such a product (essentially greed; get more for less money) but I also understand why Apple doesn't make them (essentially greed; it would hurt the sales of more profitable models). With Apple sales and share gradually climbing, they are going to have limited incentive to offer such a thing.

Now we have a flexible imac. One more thing get away from sterility & bring back shapes & colors. Anyways Quanta will be building the thing in a new factory in China. anyone say QA?

China is a very big place. There are organizations that produce excellent products there and others that produce junk, just like anywhere else.

 

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by pjtro2
Err. Why? Not sure if you've seen a CRT iMac.. The orb speakers are 90% acrylic, the speaker component is very small and would pose no problem to the integration. They've done it before.

I've owned two CRT iMacs!

Originally posted by pjtro2
Before you start flaming people, I urge you to *read* what you are replying to. Last time I checked, you don't need to read Japanese to look at pictures.

Well, I looked at the pictures. However, I couldn't read Japanese, so I couldn't determine anything about optical drive speeds, which is one of the things I was sent to that site to do.

Originally posted by sushi
No, usually it is the same device, just mounted differently. Use my TAM for example. It uses 2.5" HDs in a vertical mount. Last week, I mounted a new 20GB one since my old one died. No problems there.

The only issue that I know is optical drives.

Yeah. That's the only issue I was talking about too.

Originally posted by sushi
And these days, it seems this is becoming less of an issue. Afterall, Sony is an OEM plus they use them in their own computers in a vertical orientation.

At the same speeds?

Originally posted by sushi
I want Apple to increase market share.

To do this, they need designs that folks want to spend their hard earned $ on.

The current flat-panel iMac design is a design that folks want to spend their hard earned money on. If it wasn't for Apple's catastrophic delay in shipping flat-panel iMacs shortly after they were announced, they would have been a big hit.

Originally posted by sushi
I don't want Apple to be another Sony, Hitachi or Gateway. However, there are different solutions/variations besides a base-screen design like the current FP iMac. I was just trying to give some examples to open up your mind to possibilities.

And I was just trying to show how the current base-screen design is better than an integrated solution.

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

It will be interesting to see where they go with a new machine, same design with slight mods or major lets get out the drawing board!

 

[sushi]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
At the same speeds?

As far as I can tell it has the same speeds as their horizontal model.

Then again, technology changes, so while X may be the fastest today, tomorrow it's not.

Then again, Apple doesn't use the latest and greatest either. Plus they limit folks to -R and -RW. Where as on the PC side, folks can use these plus +R and +RW.

Personally I am fine with only the -R and -RW, but the PC community sees this as a limitation -- Especially considering Apple is using the same Sony OEM drive! I hear the same comment all of the time, why is Apple limiting the features?

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
The current flat-panel iMac design is a design that folks want to spend their hard earned money on.

IMHO, they are too expensive for the average consumer.

The eMate has shown us that. The eMate iis a popular model and continues to be. Apple is responding to customer demand by continuing to improve it while decreasing the cost.

Also, while this may seem minor, many folks don't like lot's of wires/cables hanging off their computer and prefer an all in one concept like the CRT iMac or eMate.

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
And I was just trying to show how the current base-screen design is better than an integrated solution.

The FP iMac is a beautiful design. However, it is too expensive for the average consumer. Apple has seen this which is why the eMate continues to be updated and reduced in price. The FP iMac is a problem for Apple marketing. It's not a consumer level computer, neither is it a pro model. It's sort of in the middle. It's a good computer that expensive, non-expandable and non-transportable. Unfortunately, there is not a huge market for a computer like this.

Sushi

 

[sushi]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
It will be interesting to see where they go with a new machine, same design with slight mods or major lets get out the drawing board!

My guess, they will go back to the drawing board and come up with something new. Whether they keep the FP and arm design and change the base only, or if they have a whole new concept remains to be seen.

Apple never seems to disappoint. It will be fun to see what they come up with.

Sushi

 

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by sushi
Then again, Apple doesn't use the latest and greatest either. Plus they limit folks to -R and -RW. Where as on the PC side, folks can use these plus +R and +RW.

Personally I am fine with only the -R and -RW, but the PC community sees this as a limitation -- Especially considering Apple is using the same Sony OEM drive! I hear the same comment all of the time, why is Apple limiting the features?

Obviously you missed the thread about this.

Originally posted by sushi
IMHO, they are too expensive for the average consumer.

At original release, not at all. There wasn't a matching PC at the same price. A G5 iMac would be at the same level.

Originally posted by sushi
The eMate has shown us that. The eMate iis a popular model and continues to be. Apple is responding to customer demand by continuing to improve it while decreasing the cost.

The eMate was cancelled in 1997. I think you're talking about the eMac.

Originally posted by sushi
Also, while this may seem minor, many folks don't like lot's of wires/cables hanging off their computer and prefer an all in one concept like the CRT iMac or eMate.

The flat panel iMac is an all-in-one design that has the same number of cables as the CRT iMac.

Originally posted by sushi
It's a good computer that expensive, non-expandable and non-transportable. Unfortunately, there is not a huge market for a computer like this.

Instead of telling you to get a clue, I'll gie you the clue myself.

In nine years as a Mac power user, I have never purchased an expansion card, despite the opportunity to do so twice, first with my Power Mac 6100, and again with my current PowerBook G4. However, such things as RAM are certainly expandable in the iMac.

The iMac is not particularly expensive either. The 15" model is $1299, same price as the original iMac, and a good price. I agree that the price can come down, but it is not a large problem.

The flat panel iMac is fully transportable as long as you protect the screen. The same is true of any computer, except a notebook, which protects the screen when closed by design.

 

[sushi]

Convenience...

Originally posted by sketchy
I saw this on tech TV and it seems like sony is trying to make the machine do too much, and the flipping keyboard is just plain silly. if it is half way up it is a tv, if it s 2/3 f the way up it is a stereo.

seems like a non functional feature that is likely to break at some point.

I understand what you are saying. What may be hard to see in the pictures, is that there are buttons on the back of the keyboard. So when the keyboard is in a certain position, keys are available for that function.

In the FWIW department, Sony seems to be selling many of this type of model -- to both Japanese and American folks.

Go figure.

I am sure that some of the popularlty stems from that fact that homes/apartments are small over here so space is at a premium. The less devices that you need, the more space you save. These models allow for the consumer to have one device for their computer, stereo and TV. Convenient.

Sushi

 

[SeaFox]

Originally posted by iMeowbot
It appears that what you're really after is a cheaper PowerMac rather than a more expandable iMac. I understand why people want such a product (essentially greed; get more for less money)

No, you've been mistaken into thinking the ability to expand a computer is what makes it a "professional" product. Over the years Apple has created "consumer" targeted machines that have been expandible by a limited means. When the PowerMacs first came out, none of them had integrated monitors, and they all had the ability to add at least one expansion card.

The only thing greedy about asking for a headless iMac is it would save the consumer who already has a monitor from having to pay $250+ for the flat panel integrated in the iMac. There are some people who prefer CRT monitors, ya know.

but I also understand why Apple doesn't make them (essentially greed; it would hurt the sales of more profitable models). With Apple sales and share gradually climbing, they are going to have limited incentive to offer such a thing.

Except all the PC users on the fence about switching, who see the only model price competitive with their hardware being a bottom-of-the-barrel eMac.

 

[sushi]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Obviously you missed the thread about this.

Guilty as charged.

Are you saying that out of the box, the iMacs and PowerMacs with the Sony DVD RW drives can burn + media?

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
The eMate was cancelled in 1997. I think you're talking about the eMac.

See what happens when you are on two message lists at once.

Yes, I was talking about the eMac, not the eMate.

Although, the eMate is nice as well.

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
The flat panel iMac is an all-in-one design that has the same number of cables as the CRT iMac.

Uh, don't forget the speaker wires.

With the iMac and eMac (see I got it right this time) you have fairly decent built in speakers. Not the best, but decent.

With the FP iMac, you must add speakers to have decent sound. Hense more wires. Not a lot, but enough for some to not like the design. BTW, this is a comment that I've heard frequently -- both from Japanese and American friends.

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Instead of telling you to get a clue, I'll gie you the clue myself.

Rather than totally embarrasing you with your own comments, I will just say this:

Before you hit the SUBMIT button next time, take a deep breath and relax. Take a break, then re-read your reply before submitting.

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
The flat panel iMac is fully transportable as long as you protect the screen.

With the TAM, iMac, and eMac, I can put them face down on the seat of my car and off I go. Not with the FP iMac. You have to support the system so it won't get damaged.

Again, no problem with moving the FP iMac from desk to desk.

The original Mac was made to be transportable. The iMac followed. The FP iMac does not.

Sushi

 

[sushi]

Originally posted by SeaFox

Except all the PC users on the fence about switching, who see the only model price competitive with their hardware being a bottom-of-the-barrel eMac.

Yep, you got that right.

And right now, the FP iMac is way too expensive compared to the typical PC offerings.

While I realize that the FP iMac is a great buy, stats wise, it doesn't look very tempting to my PC using friends. They see it as very expensive and non-expandable, and therefore, not worth their hard earned dollars.

Sushi

 

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by sushi
Guilty as charged.

Are you saying that out of the box, the iMacs and PowerMacs with the Sony DVD RW drives can burn + media?

An OS update to that effect is rumored.

Originally posted by sushi
With the TAM, iMac, and eMac, I can put them face down on the seat of my car and off I go. Not with the FP iMac. You have to support the system so it won't get damaged.

Again, no problem with moving the FP iMac from desk to desk.

The original Mac was made to be transportable. The iMac followed. The FP iMac does not.

I would submit that this type of feature is not a big deal. One does not customarily transport his computer back and forth very often, and if one does, one should really get a laptop. I will agree that there is an advantage there, however.

 

[iMeowbot]

I read these scare stories about not being able to take the monitor or video card along when switching platforms and just have to laugh. That expansion and upgrade stuff is, for the most part, marketing fiction, and only a small subset of people ever even try take advantage of it or care that it exists.

[Don't forget that if you are reading and posting to something like this board, you are a member of an extraordinarily small and hopelessly geeky subset of the people who use computers. Most people don't want to know what's going on inside that box and will never open the cover unless forced to do so.]

Think back over the past couple of decades of Wintel machines. Replacing a PC with an AT meant getting a new display to go with the EGA card. Then another monitor when the next computer used VGA. Then yet another when the following had a GUI and needed higher SVGA resolution to fit a useful amount of information on the screen. And yep, the PC manufacturers are at it again, migrating over to DVI.

Expansion cards went to disuse when ISA gave way to PCI, then to integrated everything (the less said about Microchannel, the better).

An unspeakable number of disk and CD interfaces came and went too. About the only old peripherals that really managed to work over the long haul were floppy drives, and not even all of those.

Point being, the market for these hypothetical cheap headless Macs that support random PC peripherals isn't going to be all that large. The parts don't even age very well on their native turf!

And of course, the general explosion in laptop sales (many of which are being bought for desktop use) shows that expandability isn't really something buyers are demanding in large numbers.

 

[Coca-Cola]

iMeowbot, that is an excellent point. Very good indeed. That really gives me something to think about.

 

[sushi]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
An OS update to that effect is rumored.

Fair enough. Thanks.

Unfortunately as you know, there is a big difference between a rumor and fact.

I will be glad to see this rumor become fact since the typical PC user sees the lack of + media support a limitation.

Sushi

 

[Rod Rod]

Originally posted by sushi
Fair enough. Thanks.

Unfortunately as you know, there is a big difference between a rumor and fact.

I will be glad to see this rumor become fact since the typical PC user sees the lack of + media support a limitation.

Sushi

people are saying Toast 6 burns +R/+RW media on G5s with the pioneer-made superdrive (the 106).

 

[sushi]

Originally posted by Rod Rod
people are saying Toast 6 burns +R/+RW media on G5s with the pioneer-made superdrive (the 106).

Cool! This is good news.

Reference/URL please.

Thanks!

Sushi

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

imeowbot misses the point about expansion,almost all pc's are expandable is the imac?? the answer is no. take me for example- i never thought i needed pci slots. if my last purchase was a imac i would have been screwed,turns out a lightning strike knocked out the eithernet so what did i do? i bought a pci ethernet card and presto into the pci slot and iam back in business, they just announced a new tv card that goes into the pci slot so now my mac can be my tv without another box on the desk, ati has the new 9800 for all those gamers but what does that do for a imac user? nothing. and the monitor is pretty but if you have one allready? Imac has squeezed itself into a exclusive top dollar machine that is well lacking. for almost 2 grand? Apple better look at what consumers want not what apple wants. slow sales have proven this now its up to apple to give the consumer what they are asking for.

 

[iMeowbot]

Funny that Ethernet and video upgrades/replacements would come up as reasons to go with a PC, because those happen to be exactly the kinds of things that made me replace a late model PC with an iMac. I had a really nice Vaio minitower with one of the better Asus motherboards inside, and ended up dragging it off to my Mom's house in less than a year because it couldn't do what I needed it to do. It was one of the more expensive Sony so-called multimedia jobbies, marketed for its video/DVD software bundle -- and in fact, decent software it was. [Some might be familiar with the Vaio line and be aware that Sony likes to put weird proprietary things in them. This wasn't such a beast; every component in the system could be bought off the shelf, and it was all the good stuff; none of that generic OEM junk.]

I actually gave up on Apple hardware back in 1997 or so, when their hardware quality had hit bottom (2 suicidal PowerBooks in a row), OS 8 still crashed at will and Rhapsody was obviously not going to be a real product for a long time. Returning to the platform would never have happened, except that expanding the latest PC was an exercise in endless futility. The hardware was certainly out there, it just didn't work.

Video and TV capture/replay: I'm using one of "larger" 1394 units (Formac's) for that, but there are much smaller/cheaper versions out there too, even some for USB. It's great to be able to run a single Firewire cable over to the video shelf and have all the connections sitting right next to the TV and VCR, rather than having to run noisy long analog cables to the back of the PC and having to reach behind a huge PC tower to plug and unplug things.

Unlike the ATI TV receiver in the old Windows box that took 2 days of driver and Windows tweaks to get working correctly (well sort of; Windows would randomly lose track of it 2 or 3 times a day and require a power cycle to get the picture back), the iMac's Formac adapter worked the first try, and with a clearer picture. Oh, and that ATI capture card couldn't do video out like the Formac; I had to abandon a perfectly good Nvidia-based AGP card and get a replacement that could do NTSC out. Of course, the new card didn't work correctly at all unless I turned off all acceleration, because none of the many ATI driver updates over an eight month period were able to correctly draw dialog boxes or Java applets under Windows XP.

Ethernet replacements/additions: There are tons of dongle solutions on the market. They work pretty well too; it's a nice cheap way to use the iMac as a secondary router to get the old MicroVAX onto the DSL connection. Glad it works too, because snaking a second CAT5 cable around the edges of the apartment would have been just nasty. Wireless wasn't an option, too much interference to maintain a good signal with so many government buildings in the area. XP got seriously confused about addresses with two network interfaces attached; the iMac just works.

On upgrading video cards to use the newest games: yeah, the case mod and overclocking crowd will buy a new card every few weeks, but these aren't normal consumers. But again, PC hardware simply doesn't age very well. Putting the latest ATI or Nvidia AGP card isn't going to make a 7-year-old Pentium 200 fast enough to play the latest games at 6 gaziilion FPS; in fact it won't even plug in because AGP is a recent change. (Oh yeah, and earlier I forgot about the EISA and VESA cards that also wouldn't work on the next PC generation.)

So yeah, my iMac is plenty expandable. And unlike the experience with the Wintel platform, the expansions actually work.

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

So great if you want those expansions next to the clean looking imac you have to have wires and boxes all around it? stuff everywhere with wires everywhere? who wants that? my point is apple has to build a box that fits everyone consumer wise not just a very tiny market segment that is buying less and less imacs. performance,utility,&style will sell the next generation imacs. style alone wont do it.