There is virtually no difference between a Mac and a non-Mac in terms of life expectance. You might find this document interesting: http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/SquareTrade_laptop_reliability_1109.pdf
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Question about Apple Reliability
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There is virtually no difference between a Mac and a non-Mac in terms of life expectance. You might find this document interesting: http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/SquareTrade_laptop_reliability_1109.pdf
I've seen the teardowns, and my own machine. I agree that Apple have always been generous with the amount of paste. That does not make it a confirmed fact. It's speculation.
Show me an engineers report stating that a generous application of thermal paste is the cause of mass GPU failures.
Edit : article on the iFixit teardown.
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On the other hand if you're buying used you are also buying the wear and abuse the previous owner inflicted on its machine. At least when buying new or considered-as-new, you get the opportunity to 3-year coverage for the potential "lemon", such as I got in 2008.
You're playing as much a lottery buying used than new. But if you get a bargain, at least it won't cost as much to replace when it eventually fails.
Obviously our personal experience differ significantly. I have yet to encounter a single Asus-made part that was reliable past a 2-year milestone.
The SquareTrade data isn't just personal experience. They used a sample of 30,000 different laptops and netbooks(didn't know those were still being sold.)
Sampling does matter. But some brands sport a wide array of different quality laptops, and surely the higher-end models definitely must pull up the overall reliability of the brand.
Yes, agreed, that's how buying used (ie. cheap) works.
If we buy new, things might go great, they often do. If something happens, then we enter the realm of diagnosis and repair, wondering how much it will cost, will Apple compensate us etc.
If we buy used, all that stuff can be entirely avoided. If one used cheap machine dies, toss it in the trash, and fire up the next machine. Down time 2 minutes. No hassle, no worry, no fuss, no muss.
This is a good alternative for those who've had a bad experience buying new, and/or who are experiencing stress over what might happen if they plunk $2000 down on the counter at the Apple store.
Buying used isn't for everybody, for the simple reason that nothing is.
PC lemon was my reason to switch..
Hi there,
Bought a Toshiba Quosmio 17' laptop in 2006. That thing was over 2K and was a real bitter lemon. The gpu on the main board fried 3 times. On top of the hardware failure I could not get any drivers for Microsoft Vista. Vista was so bad and buggy, you would not believe it. After that I called it and bought a PowerMac G4 and later on a Macbook Pro 2010.
Both Apple products have been without any flaw. My MBP 2010 is still as good as new with a large upgraded and fast SSD. I could not be happier with Apple! World class service and world class products that last 4+ years.
Tomorrow I will get a new battery though. However the original battery has been extensively used sind 2010. My spot for an appointment on the genius bar is already email confirmed through the Apple Store. The Battery is already there. How can you beat that?
Hi there,
Bought a Toshiba Quosmio 17' laptop in 2006. That thing was over 2K and was a real bitter lemon. The gpu on the main board fried 3 times. On top of the hardware failure I could not get any drivers for Microsoft Vista. Vista was so bad and buggy, you would not believe it. After that I called it and bought a PowerMac G4 and later on a Macbook Pro 2010.
Both Apple products have been without any flaw. My MBP 2010 is still as good as new with a large upgraded and fast SSD. I could not be happier with Apple! World class service and world class products that last 4+ years.
Tomorrow I will get a new battery though. However the original battery has been extensively used sind 2010. My spot for an appointment on the genius bar is already email confirmed through the Apple Store. The Battery is already there. How can you beat that?
That's why I always advise to take Apple Care coverage. Provided you take reasonable care of your machine, any defect will be covered for 3 years. Even beyond that date if you keep your machine longer, they will often do light maintenance for free. I just had my white 2009 MacBook cleaned in and out. The repair was said to be difficult, yet they haven't replaced anything so it was free.
Works only with used Macs. No Windows PC can be bought used and expected to be free of any lengthy updates, or reinstalling the OS since it gets corrupted so easily. And technically, you still have at least to transfer back the backup data from your older machine.
All too often you're hearing about the problems. People rarely post questions about what to do when their hardware is working perfectly. A lot of the issues seem to come from liquid spills, using the computer in harsh conditions, or carrying it around without sufficient protection. Some stuff it in a backpack with a sweating water bottle and expect it to be ok.
Beside stupid user tricks, there have been some systemic design issues like the Radeon problem in my 2011 MBP.
Thanks to a new Apple policy, you can now pay an optional $1000 fee to ensure your new Mac works correctly for the first 14 days. If it doesn't, just bring it back to the Apple store, and they'll fix it, for free! Wow!
I think the growing issue is the need for applecare. You wouldnt think you would need it.
My experience:
Acer: numerous issues. Over heating. Cracked screen after repair (sent to be cracked). In the end it was replaced.
MSI: over heating. Sent back with a fan not on properly. No issues after.
My new acer: No issues in over 2 years.
HP 6000 series. Over heating issues (shut down on me). No other issues.
HP Probook: No issues (over 3 years old, used daily).
2012 MBP: been to repairs 7 times. Screen Replaced. HDD Replaced. Had to reformat over 7 times now. over 50+ hours on the phone with Apple in a year.
I see a trend on google. Not sure if it is due to newer links showing first but the more I dig it seems Macbooks pre 2011 work generally much better than post 2011.
It is bad when you see many recommendations of "if you buy a mac, get applecare"
That being said. I am a heavy user. For the average person, a macbook is probably great. If you have high expectations or expect something to be flawless, or work as advertised...then stay away. If you are easy going, macbook works.
I think everyone's usage is different. I normally sell off my MBP after two years. I sold my 2010 in 2012 and gave my 2012 to my gf, which she still uses to this day.
I took my 2012 completely apart and replaced the TIM on the CPU die. It's still running without problems even after being dissected. I never got Applecare for the two machines.
By comparison my Dell laptop still works except for the wifi and webcam. It overheats while idling even though the chassis is 1.5" thick.
$1000? Where? What? How?Thanks to a new Apple policy, you can now pay an optional $1000 fee to ensure your new Mac works correctly for the first 14 days. If it doesn't, just bring it back to the Apple store, and they'll fix it, for free! Wow!
Never forget that the slightest defect on your motherboard (say, broken pin in audio jack) requires the replacement of an entire board, not just the affected part. A logic board is $600 to $900, two to three times the price of AC.
Pre / post Retina, pre / post Steve Jobs?
Read above. Just one small failure can lead to costly repairs. Replacing a hard drive cable is $11 for the cable and $70 for labor. It's not worth the hassle not get it, especially if you have a BTO Mac.
I am a heavy user, too. Machine is always on, gets hauled from place to place, outside, inside, held with one hand, burns DVDs for my other machines. No common PC would stand that kind of treatment. If you have high expectations, stay away from Windows in general. It requires far too much maintenance to be trusted. I got the Mac first and foremost because I was sure it wouldn't die on me while I'd be in a rush.
What's the TIM? Surely you got steady hands. Dismantling a machine only adds wear to it, whatever care you take while doing so.
For those scared of Radeongate/nVidiagate dGPU failures, opt for Intel IGP then use an external eGPU hackery if your gaming/workload needs GPU acceleration at the desk. Besides chip flaws/BGA/thermal paste factors, notebooks typically face environmental factors which can compound upon a certain flaw--Seagate for example had a 2.5" HDD recall due to read/write heads falling off/ripping off the arm, however real-world data seemed to focus high-humidity regions where drive stictation can occur is how Seagate learned of that specific failure.
Having said that, Intel era of Apple has been better in my experience vs PPC...
--Late 90s my parents iMac 266Mhz suffered a blown power supply and two analog boards... Apple had to replace it.
--15" Aluminum PowerBook G4(2003 FW800), lower memory slot failure however it was easily fixed via re-soldering.
--12" PowerBook G4, was one of the few who reported battery expanding before the recall and Genius Bar staff were more interested in selling me a new battery when I had AppleCare... the logicboard+casing was damaged to the point the replacement battery didn't charge properly so Apple had to repair it after contacting Steve Jobs office.
Intel era:
--Parents iMac mid-2007, most reliable desktop ever--the compact design didn't implode like the CRT iMac and outlived my two desktops.
--2010 MBP, my power adapter at the start of the year began leaking capacitor fluid which was replaced free of charge but I also needed a new battery so it balanced out. Hinges are still tight like the day it was bought... can't say the same about my Thinkpad T61(2007), after 3yrs(2010) the screen wobbled like a bobblehead as the hinge is loose.
--2012 MBP, still runs like the day I bought it and replaced the HDD with a Scorpio Black... less noise than the 2010.
As far as PCs go...
--Dell XPS Desktop(1998): Parents suffered something like 5 motherboard replacements, 2x memory replacements, CPU replacement(on-site guy forgot to plug-in the heatsink fan shroud so the CPU cooked to death)--tech later figured it out the PSU was killing the mobo in those two years, avoided Dell Home products since that.
--Dell XPS 2000: Replacement to the above PC, however the above PC made my parents buy the iMac which was hellish. This Dell was the most reliable PC and retired in 2010 via disposal... ah Pentium III era.
--Lenovo Thinkpad T61: My friend who works at Microsoft got me addicted to OneNote so I spent 3yrs managing to avoid the darker Apple MBP failure era(GeForce 8600/Magsafe T-style fraying failures), hinges got wobbley to the point of being distracting so it now sits around as a Pro Tools duty PC for friends who hate Logic X. Most solid notebook I've owned, a friend on campus knocked it off a coffee shop table and broke his toe when it landed on his foot and the HDD+screen survived (in the process of retirement of this Thinkpad, 2010 MBP will go Pro Tools duty via Boot Camp)
--Dads' HP DM4: It ran so hot it cooked several HDDs under warranty, at the 10 month mark one of the hinges failed which HP excludes claiming its normal wear & tear. It remains laying around the house stuck open or the screen will shatter if you attempt to close it (my mum bought him a Thinkpad to replace it)
--Mums HP G6: She wanted a notebook to use in the kitchen/Hulu, AMD A4 was ideal as it provided snappy GPU acceleration vs Intel Pentium G-series(Intel IGP 2000HD). She bought an in-store extended warranty, flex cable+screen failure happened at the 3yr mark... if there wasn't an extended warranty the flex cable would have been $30, screen $100 and labour $150 (HPs require a full tear-down for a screen replacement).
Having said that, Intel era of Apple has been better in my experience vs PPC...
--Late 90s my parents iMac 266Mhz suffered a blown power supply and two analog boards... Apple had to replace it.
--15" Aluminum PowerBook G4(2003 FW800), lower memory slot failure however it was easily fixed via re-soldering.
--12" PowerBook G4, was one of the few who reported battery expanding before the recall and Genius Bar staff were more interested in selling me a new battery when I had AppleCare... the logicboard+casing was damaged to the point the replacement battery didn't charge properly so Apple had to repair it after contacting Steve Jobs office.
Intel era:
--Parents iMac mid-2007, most reliable desktop ever--the compact design didn't implode like the CRT iMac and outlived my two desktops.
--2010 MBP, my power adapter at the start of the year began leaking capacitor fluid which was replaced free of charge but I also needed a new battery so it balanced out. Hinges are still tight like the day it was bought... can't say the same about my Thinkpad T61(2007), after 3yrs(2010) the screen wobbled like a bobblehead as the hinge is loose.
--2012 MBP, still runs like the day I bought it and replaced the HDD with a Scorpio Black... less noise than the 2010.
As far as PCs go...
--Dell XPS Desktop(1998): Parents suffered something like 5 motherboard replacements, 2x memory replacements, CPU replacement(on-site guy forgot to plug-in the heatsink fan shroud so the CPU cooked to death)--tech later figured it out the PSU was killing the mobo in those two years, avoided Dell Home products since that.
--Dell XPS 2000: Replacement to the above PC, however the above PC made my parents buy the iMac which was hellish. This Dell was the most reliable PC and retired in 2010 via disposal... ah Pentium III era.
--Lenovo Thinkpad T61: My friend who works at Microsoft got me addicted to OneNote so I spent 3yrs managing to avoid the darker Apple MBP failure era(GeForce 8600/Magsafe T-style fraying failures), hinges got wobbley to the point of being distracting so it now sits around as a Pro Tools duty PC for friends who hate Logic X. Most solid notebook I've owned, a friend on campus knocked it off a coffee shop table and broke his toe when it landed on his foot and the HDD+screen survived
(in the process of retirement of this Thinkpad, 2010 MBP will go Pro Tools duty via Boot Camp)--Dads' HP DM4: It ran so hot it cooked several HDDs under warranty, at the 10 month mark one of the hinges failed which HP excludes claiming its normal wear & tear. It remains laying around the house stuck open or the screen will shatter if you attempt to close it
(my mum bought him a Thinkpad to replace it)--Mums HP G6: She wanted a notebook to use in the kitchen/Hulu, AMD A4 was ideal as it provided snappy GPU acceleration vs Intel Pentium G-series(Intel IGP 2000HD). She bought an in-store extended warranty, flex cable+screen failure happened at the 3yr mark... if there wasn't an extended warranty the flex cable would have been $30, screen $100 and labour $150 (HPs require a full tear-down for a screen replacement).
My Pismo powerbook (2001) still works. I bought a "broken" 15.4-in Powerbook G4 for $20 (2005 model) on craigslist 2 years ago and it turned out the person's power adapter just didn't work. It is still working too. Those might be extreme cases, but in many years doing tech support on PCs and Macs, I am confident that Macs have a longer USEFUL lifespan. Even when older PCs still run, they get so crufted up that they are almost non-responsive for any important tasks.
My history:
Original Snow iBook (parent's laptop) - Lasted 7-8 years until tripped and fell down 2 flights of stairs. Otherwise no problems
iBook G4 - Still runs v. well, battery has lost some charge but this laptop is 10 years old. No problems
Black MacBook (BlackBook) (replaced snow iBook in 2006) - from 2006. HDD failed. Apple replaced the HDD free of charge, recovered all data and when took 1 week longer than expected gave free 200$ gift card. I kid you not.
Other Macbook (White 2006) - had red wine spilt on it, Apple did data recovery and replaced with v small fee. Not Apples fault, otherwise no problem.
Intel iMac (2006) - Still working perfectly today, I replaced this with the iMac in my signature, but still used a lot. No problems.
White Unibody Macbook - using right now. Works like a dream, no problems.
Macbook Air - same as above, except not my computer.
Parent's professional work laptop which was a Dell - HDD failed under warranty, Dell refused to replace and refused to even service computer. Lots of work lost and no compensation for what was later a recalled HDD.
Original Snow iBook (parent's laptop) - Lasted 7-8 years until tripped and fell down 2 flights of stairs. Otherwise no problems
iBook G4 - Still runs v. well, battery has lost some charge but this laptop is 10 years old. No problems
Black MacBook (BlackBook) (replaced snow iBook in 2006) - from 2006. HDD failed. Apple replaced the HDD free of charge, recovered all data and when took 1 week longer than expected gave free 200$ gift card. I kid you not.
Other Macbook (White 2006) - had red wine spilt on it, Apple did data recovery and replaced with v small fee. Not Apples fault, otherwise no problem.
Intel iMac (2006) - Still working perfectly today, I replaced this with the iMac in my signature, but still used a lot. No problems.
White Unibody Macbook - using right now. Works like a dream, no problems.
Macbook Air - same as above, except not my computer.
Parent's professional work laptop which was a Dell - HDD failed under warranty, Dell refused to replace and refused to even service computer. Lots of work lost and no compensation for what was later a recalled HDD.
Are you implying that Apple violated its own rule three times? One by replacing a HDD out of warranty free of charge, two by doing data recovery on it, and three apologizing with a gift card?
It is written everywhere that data is the customer's responsibility. Whatever the problem is, Apple WON'T perform data recovery. Otherwise I want to see that in writing.
To balance it, I knew a guy who had a 4-year old Dell whose GPU failed, he phoned them and 3 weeks after had a new Dell.
I believe them to be inline with other respected manufacturers, not much better. I'd say the non-electronic components are built to a higher standard though.
I've had a 2008 aluminium macbook. I've since sold it but it's new owner still uses it daily and it never had a problem. Though I did get some corruption on the HDD once and I had to copy over from my backup. But I think that was actually user error.
2011 15" MBP. The right fan died a few years in, but that was easy enough to replace. I then got radeaongated. Poof the computer suddenly died, 600$ repair. I'm really pissed off about this and I really hope owns up to the problem. Apple was able to replace my iPod nano 6 years later because the battery could possibly have exploded (ok there was also a class action suit) but they can't replace my 3 y/o 1800$ computer that everyone seems to be having issues with.
I'm currently on a used 2012 rMBP. I love the thing, super fast, great screen. But I'm a bit concerned, it heats up to 100ºC when I max out the CPU and it starts to throttle itself at that point. And that's without a load on the GPU.
Looking at the people around me with macs it doesn't look like their much better in terms of hardware. I know people with GPU that failed (on models not known to have issues) and other minor issues. Though it seems the laptops are well built because it's not unusual to see people with 5-6 y/o laptops that still seem to be in great shape.
Also, when macs fail it's easier to get support. Since there are so few models and a large user base, someone probably had the same problem as you and posted a fix online. If you don't live to far from one, the Apple Store's Genius can also be of help. Lastly, the OS is much easier to work with once you start having trouble. The biggest notable difference is that you can boot up a mac with the installed operating system of any other mac. Say when my 2011 MBP died, I just copied everything to my new computer and I didn't miss a beat. With Windows, you need to reinstall everything from scratch if you're not copying to the same computer. Heck, you can even connect to Macs together and boot off the drive in the other Mac.
I've had a 2008 aluminium macbook. I've since sold it but it's new owner still uses it daily and it never had a problem. Though I did get some corruption on the HDD once and I had to copy over from my backup. But I think that was actually user error.
2011 15" MBP. The right fan died a few years in, but that was easy enough to replace. I then got radeaongated. Poof the computer suddenly died, 600$ repair. I'm really pissed off about this and I really hope owns up to the problem. Apple was able to replace my iPod nano 6 years later because the battery could possibly have exploded (ok there was also a class action suit) but they can't replace my 3 y/o 1800$ computer that everyone seems to be having issues with.
I'm currently on a used 2012 rMBP. I love the thing, super fast, great screen. But I'm a bit concerned, it heats up to 100ºC when I max out the CPU and it starts to throttle itself at that point. And that's without a load on the GPU.
Looking at the people around me with macs it doesn't look like their much better in terms of hardware. I know people with GPU that failed (on models not known to have issues) and other minor issues. Though it seems the laptops are well built because it's not unusual to see people with 5-6 y/o laptops that still seem to be in great shape.
Also, when macs fail it's easier to get support. Since there are so few models and a large user base, someone probably had the same problem as you and posted a fix online. If you don't live to far from one, the Apple Store's Genius can also be of help. Lastly, the OS is much easier to work with once you start having trouble. The biggest notable difference is that you can boot up a mac with the installed operating system of any other mac. Say when my 2011 MBP died, I just copied everything to my new computer and I didn't miss a beat. With Windows, you need to reinstall everything from scratch if you're not copying to the same computer. Heck, you can even connect to Macs together and boot off the drive in the other Mac.
Being able to boot almost any Mac from a pulled HDD is due to Apple having all the driver ktexts as part of OS updates, same can be said of most Linux distros which often include enough common drivers or basic enough support it won't be tied to a specific PC like Windows.
They can call it data transfer on the work order and head Genius can null the fee, when a friend of mine was working in NYC they did it without asking--my friend thought 3hrs of work was gone. My friend had a MacBook with the famous Seagate HDD failure issue serial number range(read/write head falling off issue) but instead of an outright failure the b-tree/index suffered bit-rot/bad sectors to cause a SMART warning.
I'm always surprised such negative questioning over others experiences occur so much when Apple/Retail strays from policy, it just shows Apple can or will do something for the sake of customer service to set themselves above other PC makers.
They can call it data transfer on the work order and head Genius can null the fee, when a friend of mine was working in NYC they did it without asking--my friend thought 3hrs of work was gone. My friend had a MacBook with the famous Seagate HDD failure issue serial number range(read/write head falling off issue) but instead of an outright failure the b-tree/index suffered bit-rot/bad sectors to cause a SMART warning.
I'm always surprised such negative questioning over others experiences occur so much when Apple/Retail strays from policy, it just shows Apple can or will do something for the sake of customer service to set themselves above other PC makers.
--Lenovo Thinkpad T61: My friend who works at Microsoft got me addicted to OneNote so I spent 3yrs managing to avoid the darker Apple MBP failure era(GeForce 8600/Magsafe T-style fraying failures), hinges got wobbley to the point of being distracting so it now sits around as a Pro Tools duty PC for friends who hate Logic X. Most solid notebook I've owned, a friend on campus knocked it off a coffee shop table and broke his toe when it landed on his foot and the HDD+screen survived
Going slightly off-topic for a minute ....
The T61 was the end of the hewn from granite build quality era of IBM/Lenovo laptops. The rot set in with the T400 that replaced it, and the latest x40 series stuff is terrible. The Ultrabay is history, they've gone to non-standard layout chiclet keyboards, removed all the indicator lights other than power on, and the touchpad is the worst input device I've ever had the displeasure to use. It's hateful. Even bottom of the range Acer trackpads were better 15 years ago.
We had a user bring in an old ThinkPad T41 in for disposal today they found in a cupboard. Not a greasy fingerprint on it, had never been fired up since the day we gave it to the original user with Windows 2000 on it 10 years ago!
They have some discretionary powers, but I haven't found the Apple Stores to be enjoyable since John Browett came in. And they haven't really recovered since. Enjoyable meaning you could walk in and have a reasonable expectations the employees will bend over backwards in an attempt to please the customer.
My definition of "data recovery" understates a dead hard drive. Of course data transfer is included when you get a new Mac, or migrating from a PC. Just never was when you walk in for a repair.
Had the same model lent to me after 5 years of heavy usage. After 3 weeks, cascading failures killed it in 3 days. Then the battery died, then the screen wouldn't turn on, then it simply refused to power up. So much for Thinkpad's reliability.We had a user bring in an old ThinkPad T41 in for disposal today they found in a cupboard. Not a greasy fingerprint on it, had never been fired up since the day we gave it to the original user with Windows 2000 on it 10 years ago!
Ex-DSG employee screws up Apple retail shocker! I used to work for PC World in the UK many years ago and the management culture was appalling.
As for the Thinkpad comments - I've bought, installed and supported probably ten thousand of them in my current job. One bad machine doesn't prove anything.
Of course not. If I had to buy a PC, I'd get a reasonably expensive Linux-compatible Lenovo, just in case.
Pre-Browett, walking into the same store I bought the top-of-the line 13" complaining of poor compatibility with Lion, I assume I would have been offered group training, or maybe one-on-one training. Instead, I got a flat-out "No". Lucky for me I had my friend's blackbook on hand. And I really didn't like how a newbie Genius pushed me towards accepting a top-case replacement on a 5-year old machine a week ago (I firmly refused, thinking that if it were needed, I could find it on eBay for less $).
Pre-Browett, walking into the same store I bought the top-of-the line 13" complaining of poor compatibility with Lion, I assume I would have been offered group training, or maybe one-on-one training. Instead, I got a flat-out "No". Lucky for me I had my friend's blackbook on hand. And I really didn't like how a newbie Genius pushed me towards accepting a top-case replacement on a 5-year old machine a week ago (I firmly refused, thinking that if it were needed, I could find it on eBay for less $).
I thought Apple still offered free workshops for those who don't need/want One-To-One training? In my area Best Buy has been having Apple trained Best Buy Apple-Store-Within-A-Store employees to show customers the basics. BB amazingly offers more events per day than some Apple Retail locations.
Unless Apple Retail head manages to run customer service into the ground, Apple perfected a retail store in which Gateway failed at and Microsoft trying to pull an Apple for retail PC sales with mixed results. IMO, if Apple keeps having pushy Genius Bar policy it'll likely catch up sooner than later. Somehow I sense the glued in battery of the MBA/rMBP is an experiment to make customers deal with the possibility of replace your now ~4yr old notebook or be at the mercy of whatever battery price Apple decides is fair.
Current direction Lenovo is going I wouldn't even bank on Linux support as chipsets(wifi/ethernet) has gone to the cheapest bidder for non-CTO(stock Thinkpads up to T400/T500/W500 wifi cards were always Intel, newer models you'll either get Broadcom or RealTek on the base model then upsold to Intel), Dell Latitudes & HP ProBook/EliteBooks have better Linux friendly hardware on the pre-built/ready-to-ship models.
14" T61 non-widescreen w/9-cell battery weighs almost 7 lbs...
Steady decline of Lenovo trying to consumer reshape a Thinkpad into a MacBook Pro was part of why I bought my 15" MBP, loss of the screen roll-cage made breaking a Thinkpad screen/latch more likely, keyboards lost the backplate support on the T400/T400s/T500 and chiclets & loss of 7-row keyboard on T430/T530/W530 with the menu key being replaced/remapped to "Print Screen" is just a disaster
In the science field HP ProBook/EliteBook have really grown in users since the T430/T530/W530 keyboard layout change and the current generation shift to backlit keys vs Thinklight ruins it for times where the light was great to read something while working(plane/ship/train/bus/car) without disturbing anybody around you.
Unless Apple Retail head manages to run customer service into the ground, Apple perfected a retail store in which Gateway failed at and Microsoft trying to pull an Apple for retail PC sales with mixed results. IMO, if Apple keeps having pushy Genius Bar policy it'll likely catch up sooner than later. Somehow I sense the glued in battery of the MBA/rMBP is an experiment to make customers deal with the possibility of replace your now ~4yr old notebook or be at the mercy of whatever battery price Apple decides is fair.
Current direction Lenovo is going I wouldn't even bank on Linux support as chipsets(wifi/ethernet) has gone to the cheapest bidder for non-CTO(stock Thinkpads up to T400/T500/W500 wifi cards were always Intel, newer models you'll either get Broadcom or RealTek on the base model then upsold to Intel), Dell Latitudes & HP ProBook/EliteBooks have better Linux friendly hardware on the pre-built/ready-to-ship models.
14" T61 non-widescreen w/9-cell battery weighs almost 7 lbs...
Steady decline of Lenovo trying to consumer reshape a Thinkpad into a MacBook Pro was part of why I bought my 15" MBP, loss of the screen roll-cage made breaking a Thinkpad screen/latch more likely, keyboards lost the backplate support on the T400/T400s/T500 and chiclets & loss of 7-row keyboard on T430/T530/W530 with the menu key being replaced/remapped to "Print Screen" is just a disaster
In the science field HP ProBook/EliteBook have really grown in users since the T430/T530/W530 keyboard layout change and the current generation shift to backlit keys vs Thinklight ruins it for times where the light was great to read something while working(plane/ship/train/bus/car) without disturbing anybody around you.