Radeon HD4870 shipping?

[-js-]

I've read a lot of people complaining about the 8800GT having rather poor quality/buggy drivers under OS X. It's kind of surprising to me to see people in this thread and the other Geforce GTX285 thread(s) talk about waiting for that one/canceling 4870 pre-orders. While I do think that Apple charging $349.99 for what is basically a ~$160-170 card at this point to be completely uncalled for and borderline nauseating, what makes people think that the drivers for the GTX285 are going to be any better than the poor quality ones for the 8800gt?.

. . .

I was wondering this same thing. Is it just hopeful thinking, or is there some reason why we should expect more in the case of the GTX285?

Another question: will the "official" drivers for the 4870 native to 10.5.7 be the same as the ones people are downloading and installing, mentioned above?

Also, is there a thread about 4870 performance / drivers / general goodness on the Mac Pro? I have the 2600 and would really like to upgrade, but only if it is to something stable, non-buggy, and well supported and received. Otherwise, I'll just wait until such a thing exists . . . because while the 2600 isn't the best video card, it's definitely not buggy at all on my MP. And that's something. Still . . .

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Strange, I've not experienced any problems with my 8800GT on my MP... been rock solid. I know it does not perform as one would hope for many of the acceleration functions in pro apps though, that's pretty well documented.

I guess what got me regretting the 4870 was really just the bloated price. We all know what the hardware is WORTH as they sell all day long for at least 1/2 the price. If I don't go for the 285 (I do game here and there), then I'll probably just go the route of flashing a 4870 and be done with it assuming a flashed 4870 will run at the same speed as the Apple card. Have not shipped the Apple 4870 back yet but it's boxed up and ready to go.

 

[OddThomas]

The 8800 does not cut it in Aperture or Photoshop... At least not the stuff I work with. I've just seen the 4870 in action on a 30" display, and it is worth the upgrade.

My experience with the 8800 in the past year is that is was laggy and buggy... the 4870 is a worthwhile upgrade for pro app users, and I will run with it until a new app comes along that can't take it.

I have also come to realize that pushing 1920x1200 vs 2560x1600 is a BIG difference. I also have noted that no Nvidia cards have worked well in my mac(s). I was always a fan when I built PC's and such, I kind of looked at Radeon and scoffed. But this one really completes my system.

As for gaming... don't really care about those benchmarks, so it may fall short.

I heard the 8800 had issues, but no experience with it.. Red9 makes some good points about buggy drivers as well. I am very happy with the 4870 with Aperture and iMovie/Final Cut Express; which i use a lot. also general UI stuff is more fluid especially with Hyperspaces and iTunes. Can't complain and i am glad i bought the over priced 4870. I am long time PC guy (converted 2yrs ago) and have made peace with the crazy priced video cards and other peripherals. Also i have nothing else to upgrade.. really! well SSD drive soon.. maybe

Interesting comment about 2570 vs 1920. i am sure there is a big diff that is a lot of real estate.

If anyone wants me to test something with the 4870 let me know. The main thing for me with this card is, IT IS QUIET! blows some hot air out the back though. as all big cards do.

 

[OddThomas]

JS: i would recommend the 4870 over the 2600. that is what i upgraded from and love it... no buggy driver issues so far. life is good. of course only if you "neeeeed" it.

 

[turtlebud]

I'm glad to see people that are using similar apps to me cause your experience will help me out. For those that are using the 4870 now, what kind of things in aperture and/or final cut express are you seeing improvements on now that were lagging or less workable before (with either the 2600xt or the 8800gt)? I'm wondering cause so far, I haven't noticed much "slowness" even with the 2600xt card. (of course i'm sure it's in part because the Mac Pro is loads faster than the dual 2.0Ghz G5 I upgraded from). Where will I see improvement by going to the 4870 (or potentially the GTX 285)?

 

[matthew.russo]

Has anyone outside of the US received their 4870's?

 

[netkas]

I'm glad to see people that are using similar apps to me cause your experience will help me out. For those that are using the 4870 now, what kind of things in aperture and/or final cut express are you seeing improvements on now that were lagging or less workable before (with either the 2600xt or the 8800gt)? I'm wondering cause so far, I haven't noticed much "slowness" even with the 2600xt card. (of course i'm sure it's in part because the Mac Pro is loads faster than the dual 2.0Ghz G5 I upgraded from). Where will I see improvement by going to the 4870 (or potentially the GTX 285)?

mostly games.

 

[OddThomas]

I'm glad to see people that are using similar apps to me cause your experience will help me out. For those that are using the 4870 now, what kind of things in aperture and/or final cut express are you seeing improvements on now that were lagging or less workable before (with either the 2600xt or the 8800gt)? I'm wondering cause so far, I haven't noticed much "slowness" even with the 2600xt card. (of course i'm sure it's in part because the Mac Pro is loads faster than the dual 2.0Ghz G5 I upgraded from). Where will I see improvement by going to the 4870 (or potentially the GTX 285)?

The 2600 did do a good job with those apps, but what i started to notice is a general choppiness when i had aperture, FCE, Live Type and iMovie all open at the same time. switching from screen to screen was not smooth. and now with the 4870 i have them all open at the same time and there is no choppiness or other slowness in the UI.

If you shoot in RAW mode with your DSLR then those files are huge. Aprture takes almost no time bringing those files into focus now. with the 2600 you would get the spinning wheel for about 1-2 sec.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

The 2600 did do a good job with those apps, but what i started to notice is a general choppiness when i had aperture, FCE, Live Type and iMovie all open at the same time. switching from screen to screen was not smooth. and now with the 4870 i have them all open at the same time and there is no choppiness or other slowness in the UI.

If you shoot in RAW mode with your DSLR then those files are huge. Aprture takes almost no time bringing those files into focus now. with the 2600 you would get the spinning wheel for about 1-2 sec.

True, I did notice even with the driver posted here a speed increase in aperture. This was even with just high res jpegs from my D700. RAW would be even more pronounced no doubt.

At this point, if there were a mini display port to full size display port adapter (or cable) I might just change my mind on it. The fact that the Apple 4870 runs at full speed versus the flashed versions as well as both ports working properly is worth something too.

I wonder if the 285 is going to be dual DVI or have a display port connector on it (or mini)...

So nothing much better to do on a rainy Sunday so decided to do some comparisons... ran some benches with the 8800gt and then (re)installed the 4870 and ran against it. Naturally these are with the drivers posted earlier in this thread. I know Xbench is not always the most trusted benchmarking app, but here are the results on just the graphics tests:

8800GT:

Radeon 4870:

 

[OddThomas]

here's my 4870 xbench. wonder why you User Interface test is so much higher than mine.

can you try the OpenMark benchmark? http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/15242

final score: 33685

 

[Tom Sawyer]

here's my 4870 xbench. wonder why you User Interface test is so much higher than mine.

Not sure on that, other than Xbench not always being consistent.

I am running a dual quad (8 core) 2.8ghz MP with 8gb ram. Other than that, standard stuff....

 

[matthew.russo]

Here are all the base results I can get for the 8800GT. You can base your comparison with the 4870 of this.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

can you try the OpenMark benchmark? http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/15242

final score: 33685

Sure, no problem... pulled it down with these results:

Some quick in game benches for those interested:

OS X: Quake 3 (ioquake 1.36)

demo1: 8800GT - 346 4870: 390.3

ucguide1: 8800GT - 199.2 4870: 214.5

ucguide2: 8000GT - 121 4870: 128.2


Quake 4 in Windows 7:

8800GT: 152.00
4870: 98.00

Was pretty surprised to see the significantly lower number in Q4

 

[VirtualRain]

Here are my results (4870 running on a 2.93GHz Nehalem Mac Pro Quad). Given we all have the same card, there must be some system related factor at work with these rather large variations in scores.

 

[-js-]

JS: i would recommend the 4870 over the 2600. that is what i upgraded from and love it... no buggy driver issues so far. life is good. of course only if you "neeeeed" it.

Thanks for the recommendation! And, of course I NEED it! If by "need" we mean "want badly". hehe.

Back to the driver question:

Where did the drivers linked to in THIS thread come from? Are they taken from a new Nehalem MP? Or somewhere else?

Will the drivers in 10.5.7 be equal to or better than them?

. . . The main thing for me with this card is, IT IS QUIET! blows some hot air out the back though. as all big cards do.

This is really great! I thought I had read reports of this card being somewhat noisy. Or at least, not quiet. My early 2008 MP with the 2600 is really quiet, and I like that. I was assuming that the 4870 would bump up the noise level quite a bit, but I guess I was wrong. That's really good news!

 

[Cynicalone]

Here are my results (4870 running on a 2.93GHz Nehalem Mac Pro Quad). Given we all have the same card, there must be some system related factor at work with these rather large variations in scores.

It could be because you are running a different build of OS 10.5.6?

 

[aibo]

This is really great! I thought I had read reports of this card being somewhat noisy. Or at least, not quiet. My early 2008 MP with the 2600 is really quiet, and I like that. I was assuming that the 4870 would bump up the noise level quite a bit, but I guess I was wrong. That's really good news!

I'm not sure how it compares to the 2600, but my apple 4870 is noticeably louder than the GeForce 8800 it replaced. It's not loud enough to bother me, though... and I sleep 5 feet away from the machine.

 

[OddThomas]

I'm not sure how it compares to the 2600, but my apple 4870 is noticeably louder than the GeForce 8800 it replaced. It's not loud enough to bother me, though... and I sleep 5 feet away from the machine.

Well, if you use your MP as a pillow i concede that it may be a little noisey.. I really did not realize that the 8800 was so quiet. i heard so many complaints about that card. maybe i confused those complaints with the noisey ati3470.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Sure, no problem... pulled it down with these results:

So here are the results in the same app with the 8800GT back in. Not really regretting sending the 4870 back today. I know benchmarks are not the whole story, but I would have expected the numbers to be higher across the board, the 4870 is a considerably newer chip than the 8800GT.

 

[-js-]

So, to answer my own question earlier, yes the drivers linked to in this thread were taken from a 10.5.6 build for a new MP with 4870 installed. So 10.5.7 will have those drivers, or an even newer, more stable revision of them.

 

[matthew.russo]

I have a question in regard to dual link on these cards.

If I were to connect 2 monitors to one card using DVI only, can I use the normal DVI port and the second output with minidisplay port to DVI cable to connect both monitors?

Also, can 2 cards be used to run 3 monitors in OSX?

 

[red9]

Well I couldn't stand waiting for 10.5.7 anymore so I opened and installed the 4870 and the drivers previously linked.

I do have one question, however. From netkas' instructions in the PC 4870 flashing thread, he said to:

"after installing pkg remove /System/Library/Extensions/Natit.kext"

Is that something that only needs to be done for PC flashed 4870s, or what? I removed that file, but I'm not sure if I was supposed to or not Thanks for the help!

 

[pprior]

I think that's pc flashed only.

I just installed the drivers and that was that.

 

[JollyRogers]

Well I couldn't stand waiting for 10.5.7 anymore so I opened and installed the 4870 and the drivers previously linked.

I do have one question, however. From netkas' instructions in the PC 4870 flashing thread, he said to:

"after installing pkg remove /System/Library/Extensions/Natit.kext"

Is that something that only needs to be done for PC flashed 4870s, or what? I removed that file, but I'm not sure if I was supposed to or not Thanks for the help!

You are fine removing natit.kext. As pointed out above, that is only needed for hackintosh.

 

[-js-]

I have a question in regard to dual link on these cards.

If I were to connect 2 monitors to one card using DVI only, can I use the normal DVI port and the second output with minidisplay port to DVI cable to connect both monitors?

Yes.

Also, can 2 cards be used to run 3 monitors in OSX?

Yes. Or 4 monitors. But there is a maximum total power draw for the PCIe cards. There are some threads around here about two 4870's, but I've never read them and don't know if it's possible or not. But, certainly, a 4870 and a 2600 will work.