Ramifications of the MBP's very high temps (or, a means to this topics end)

[mgartner0622]

There are actually some upcoming changes on the intel end that could make a cooler laptop workable. It's just that popular opinion is that Apple will thin it down more like the macbook air. If you look at the weight comparison, the 13" air is 2.96 lb whereas the pro is 4.5 lb. The ODD and HDD should come out to at least half a pound saved there with the port reduction possibly cutting a couple ounces. The 15" which is often what people owned previous to the air, comes in at 5.6 lb. A 15" air would still be light, but you'd notice the difference from the ones out currently.

Intel is aiming to get their mainstream laptop cpus close to what the Air is at now in tdp around 2013. That would be a huge step toward quieter machines that aren't forced to throttle down assuming the enclosure remains the same. The problem is I think Apple wants the line to look like the macbook air does currently even though you could still retain significant weight reductions without going to the ultra thin design.

Just my thoughts on it...

That makes sense, however I'm one of the stubborn people who couldn't stand losing my optical drive, and large size hard disk. I think this is why Apple has kept it, and is maybe going to introduce a 15" thinner Air-like model for people that don't want the optical drive and/or hard disk. Currently though, with the high power TDP, heat is an issue in a thin laptop such as the current Macbook Pro lineup.

 

[SavMBP15]

So you'd rather it didn't throttle or shut off and simply burn up? Again, if you don't like the throttling or shutting down to prevent damage, talk to Intel, not Apple.

Best response yet. People think that since they bought a MBP that it should be able to do anything they want, for as long as they want. Sorry, but it won't.

 

[thundersteele]

Well, it was still apples design choice to put a 45W CPU and a hungry GPU in their MBPs. Anyways, it does work, and under most circumstances, the CPU and GPU can deliver their design performance. The throttling does not happen all the time...

 

[macdudesir]

I think you all are overlooking the fact that the CPU's could actually handle more than 100-105C. They say 100C to be safe. Some CPU's could handle more then that, its not the absolute maximum. I don't know if anyone has noticed but in a car (yes another car reference) the little oil sticker that says 50,000 miles oil change does't mean that if you don't get the oil changed before then the engine will explode or come grinding to a halt. You can drive a few more thousand miles before any damage occurs. They say whatever milage your given because in the very worst conditions its possible that damage could occur past that milage. So a CPU with weak silicone or whatever gets damaged at high temperatures may start to be harmed at 100C but most CPU's could probably handle more...so take an extra 10-15C past the "Max" in to consideration, and 90C doesn't seem so high now, does it?

...Just my two cents, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm always open to expanding my knowledge

 

[shardey]

I think you all are overlooking the fact that the CPU's could actually handle more than 100-105C. They say 100C to be safe. Some CPU's could handle more then that, its not the absolute maximum. I don't know if anyone has noticed but in a car (yes another car reference) the little oil sticker that says 50,000 miles oil change does't mean that if you don't get the oil changed before then the engine will explode or come grinding to a halt. You can drive a few more thousand miles before any damage occurs. They say whatever milage your given because in the very worst conditions its possible that damage could occur past that milage. So a CPU with weak silicone or whatever gets damaged at high temperatures may start to be harmed at 100C but most CPU's could probably handle more...so take an extra 10-15C past the "Max" in to consideration, and 90C doesn't seem so high now, does it?

...Just my two cents, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm always open to expanding my knowledge

I will correct you on the part about 50,000 miles, maybe 5,000?

I just reapplied thermal paste to my 2.3ghz i7 and it keeps my maximum temp on my gpu 10ºc lower and my cpu about 8ºc so thats about the best you can do about this heat.

 

[macdudesir]

I will correct you on the part about 50,000 miles, maybe 5,000?

I just reapplied thermal paste to my 2.3ghz i7 and it keeps my maximum temp on my gpu 10ºc lower and my cpu about 8ºc so thats about the best you can do about this heat.

haha, thanks, but I meant that the sticker said you need to change oil at 50,000 miles (like when the car has 50,000 miles on it) shoulda been more clear i guess

 

[shardey]

haha, thanks, but I meant that the sticker said you need to change oil at 50,000 miles (like when the car has 50,000 miles on it) shoulda been more clear i guess

I knew what you meant, and I'm sure you did too. Good example though.

 

[grahamnp]

Name one notebook computer that can run at maximum limits continuously without issues. They're not designed to run at 100% continuously. If you expect that, you bought the wrong computer. You shouldn't be buying a computer that needs to run at 100% to handle your normal workload. You should buy one that can handle that workload at something like 60%.

So you'd rather it didn't throttle or shut off and simply burn up? Again, if you don't like the throttling or shutting down to prevent damage, talk to Intel, not Apple.

My 2008 MBP could run at 100% for as long as I needed it to. My 2011 MBP is the first computer I have ever used to not be able to do this. I don't run my computer for hours on end at full load and neither do I recommend it. My usage scenarios hardly extreme.

I don't even need to run at 100% to reach TJMax but that is besides the point. Do you even use a computer? Many apps try to max out the available resources. It doesn't matter if I run Handbrake on a MBA or a 8 core Mac Pro. It is going to use 100% of the CPU regardless.

It throttles because it is on the verge of overheating. Apple is responsible for cooling the CPU. If it throttles it is because Apple didn't do that properly.

In most scenarios throttling is limited to reducing the turbo multiplier i.e you are still running at 2.2ghz when under heavy CPU load, just not 2.8ghz at maximum turbo the whole time. So you are getting the speed that you pay for almost all the time, if you want to be belligerent.

Of course, there is a scenario where your chip hits the temp limit of 100 deg C (roughly, can't be bothered to look it up) where it would then enter a harsher throttle state below stock speed. This state only usually arises if vents are blocked, heatsink filled with dust to prevent damage.

You can download software to run under boot camp to monitor throttle states if you are interested in factual data.

I am aware of how turbo boost and throttling works. My point is that the CPU should be able to run at advertised speeds, nothing less. I don't need to run the CPU at 100% for several hours to experience throttling. Half an hour of gaming will do and when Apple touts gaming performance on their website, I'd expect to be able to play some games. Many of us are having it run at below 2ghz, I myself have seen it drop to below 1.5ghz and yes I have checked with the monitoring software.


Some of you seem convinced that there is no issue and yet there are so many having to deal with poor performance. I think the fact that most other laptops don't have this problem speaks volumes. It seems that neither side is willing to be convinced so I'll say no more.

 

[GuitarG20]

I am aware of how turbo boost and throttling works. My point is that the CPU should be able to run at advertised speeds, nothing less. I don't need to run the CPU at 100% for several hours to experience throttling. Half an hour of gaming will do and when Apple touts gaming performance on their website, I'd expect to be able to play some games. Many of us are having it run at below 2ghz, I myself have seen it drop to below 1.5ghz and yes I have checked with the monitoring software.

what monitoring software are you using? jw

 

[thekev]

That makes sense, however I'm one of the stubborn people who couldn't stand losing my optical drive, and large size hard disk. I think this is why Apple has kept it, and is maybe going to introduce a 15" thinner Air-like model for people that don't want the optical drive and/or hard disk. Currently though, with the high power TDP, heat is an issue in a thin laptop such as the current Macbook Pro lineup.

I was just trying to make the point that going as thin as possible isn't the only possible design paradigm to follow. They can't really move to a thicker enclosure with bigger fans relative to what they have today. That would annoy too many people. If overall power consumption drops significantly from the cpu and gpu, they could offer a laptop that runs cooler and silent all the time with better performance rather than going for minimum density. Otherwise you have the same problem we have today where the quad macbook pros run extremely hot under load. We'll see where they go on this. Before anyone suggests it, ARM wouldn't solve the problem if processing power is an issue (at least not today).

 

[grahamnp]

what monitoring software are you using? jw

I use ThrottleStop and HWMonitor

 

[Demosthenes X]

Unless you plan on using your computer for decades? Really? Ive heard/seen many MBPs fail, and macbook pros have not been around for decades. By fail, I mean the logic board fails, at which point its practically totalled because of repair cost. Are you saying that lower peak and average temperatures (lets say ~8*C) wouldn't have meant a significantly longer lifespan?

Are you aware that people bake their dead MBP's back to life, in order to resolder a connection thats become brittle/broken from excessive heat/ thermal cycles?

This is a completely meaningless statement. Anecdotal evidence is of very little value. The question is, do a statistically significant number of MBPs fail due to excessive heat? If yes, then there is a problem. If no, then there is probably not a problem.

It drives me nuts when people freak out over a few isolated incidents.