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Random Baseball trivia

Just thought of this...

Guy on first, 2 outs, batter hits a homerun. The runner misses 3rd base (or 2nd base) and is called out. What is the ruling on the homerun? Is it a homerun? Does 1 run score (the batter)? Is it a 0 RBI homerun? Or a 0 run homerun, for that matter. Or is the runner considered out before the homerun via a fielder's choice?

I, myself, don't know and wondering if anyone out there does? :confused:
 
Good question. I'm not sure, but I think that home run would not count. It doesn't count until the batter touches all three bases in order and home. The runner on base would be out the moment he touched one base without having touched the one before it. So I believe by definition the batter who hit the ball out would be unable to score. No RBIs, no home run.
 
That is a good one. MLB Rule 7.10 deals with missed bases by a runner, but must be appealed by the defending team. That being so, I'd see the runner who missed the base with an appeal, being called out when the defending team touches the missed bag with the ball.

Another question though. Once a homerun is ruled by an umpire, is the ball "dead"? There are some lines which use "entitled base" to the advancing runners, though I'm sure each must tag the appropriate bag(s) in order.
 
I would think the answer can be found by answering this: when does the out occur? If the out occurs when the runner misses base, then I would say the inning is over and the batter loses his homerun and no runs are scored. If the out occurs when the defense tags the missed base, then the out is after the homerun so the homerun would count. If it is an appeal as xsedrinam stated then the out would be when the runner misses the bag. And again, if the out is when the runner misses the bag (and there is no homerun) what is the ruling? Is it a fielder's choice? :confused:
 
steamboat26:
since you have the Yankees logo thought i throw you one also. what happened to the Yankees on June 11, 2003??? lol
 
nownot said:
steamboat26:
since you have the Yankees logo thought i throw you one also. what happened to the Yankees on June 11, 2003??? lol
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yankees were no hit for the astros by six pitchers. roy oswalt had to leave in the second due to injury. dotel, lidge and wagner were in the no no. can't remember the other two pitchers. it was like the first no hitter by the yankees in forever.

is that the only astros no hitter?
 
do we forget that the astros had one of the greatest pictures if all time, Ryan. So to answer your question no its not.
 
asxtb said:
Just thought of this...

Guy on first, 2 outs, batter hits a homerun. The runner misses 3rd base (or 2nd base) and is called out. What is the ruling on the homerun? Is it a homerun? Does 1 run score (the batter)? Is it a 0 RBI homerun? Or a 0 run homerun, for that matter. Or is the runner considered out before the homerun via a fielder's choice?

I, myself, don't know and wondering if anyone out there does? :confused:
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Since the lead runner never touched third (or second) he has only gone so far as the last base he touched. When the batter touched the next base (be it home or third), he has based the lead runner on the base path which results in the third out in the inning. The home run does not count.
 
Once the lead runner misses the base then all the runners behind him are out because they ran past the lead runner.

Now, what if there are bases loaded, the batter hits a grand slam all the other runners touch base but the runner that hit the home run misses a bag, do they only count 3 runs or is the home run invalid and everyone goes back to base.
 
I still can't find a ruling on a called home run, if it's considered a "dead ball"? If so, wouldn't that bear on all advancing runners and appeals, after a dead ball ruling? I still see it as others do, that the runner, upon appeal of the defensive team and touching the missed bag would be called out, and the home run nullified, but I don't see anything clear in MLB Rules. Chapter and verse, anyone?
 
If you hit a home run the ball is considered out of play, I don't know if it is considered a dead ball until after all runners round the bases.
 
IJ Reilly said:
Are you sure? It's not a home run until the batter touches each base in sequence and then home.
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Exactly, it is not a dead ball until all runners touch home. I don't see how it can be deemed a dead ball before the play is over.
 
I want to agree with all of you, I really do, and I do. But where's the ruling addressing it? Once the ball goes out of the playing field (in this case a homerun), the umpire must signal the play. The ball can't still be in play because it's out of the field of play. Where do the defensive team get another ball to bring it into play, from the batboy? :p
 
MacNut said:
Exactly, it is not a dead ball until all runners touch home. I don't see how it can be deemed a dead ball before the play is over.
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I'm trying to think of any other situation where the ball would be considered out of play but not dead. A ground-rule double, I guess? And when exactly on a home run situation is the ball considered out of play? Surely not at the moment when the ball goes over the fence, since catches are often made over the fence.
 
On the next play if the other team feels that the previous play should be challenged they can appeal the runners.

A dead ball would mean that the runners can't advance, so how can a home run be ruled a dead ball. If a runner fails to touch a base it would be ruled out after the play.
 
IJ Reilly said:
I'm trying to think of any other situation where the ball would be considered out of play but not dead. A ground-rule double, I guess? And when exactly on a home run situation is the ball considered out of play? Surely not at the moment when the ball goes over the fence, since catches are often made over the fence.
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That's where I'm stuck. The ump's signaling a round trip sets up entitlement, though it would be conditional. On a ground rule double, runners on base are entitled to advance, but they also must tag the appropriate base(s) in order. Everything above mentioned makes sense to me, all but what is the state of the "ball" played when it's hit out of the field of play, and ruled a homerun?
 
If a ball goes out of play the play is dead and a new ball is brought in.
 
MacNut said:
A dead ball would mean that the runners can't advance, so how can a home run be ruled a dead ball.
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I don't know, but I thought that's what you were suggesting. I thought initially that a ball which goes over the fence is technically still in play, but I'm not so sure. In some parks, the ball just has to hit the wall above a line to be ruled a homer. You can come up with other scenarios where the ball returns to the playing field but is still out of play. The rule book must explain this somewhere.
 
The ball is ruled out of play but not dead. A home run is out of the field of play but the runners are allowed to advance.
 
asxtb said:
Right you are!
And yes, you are also right about the shorter ballparks and the comressed bat. Also there's an argument about Japanese pitchers being weaker yada yada yada. But as you said, the seasons were, and still are, shorter than the MLB (you could say the samething about Hank). And 868 is still an extremely impressive number.

Josh Gibson is listed at number 2 with 'about 800'. Since he played in the Negro Leagues there was very poor record keeping so people don't know how many he actually hit. Some claim he hit over 900 but he also played in a winter league that some people count towards his total.

Hank is number 3, but does hold the record for the most homeruns in the MLB (for now...).

And going back to Oh... Oh is currently the manager of the Fukuoka Softbank Hawks. And he was also the manager of the Japan team that won the World Baseball Classic. He recently underwent surgery for stomach cancer but it appears to have been a success.
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I saw a book in Barnes & Noble one day entitled "The year Babe Ruth hit 100 Home Runs". It studies his 60-HR season and finds an additional 40 that would have been dingers in most parks today.
 
MacNut said:
The ball is ruled out of play but not dead. A home run is out of the field of play but the runners are allowed to advance.
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I guess I don't see the difference in "out of play" and "dead". Anyway, this ruling seems to established responsibility on the part of runner(s) and batter to advance without the threat of being put out, PROVIDED they touch all bases in succession. Maybe the ball status of in play or out is moot because of the conditonal advance.

Scored: ???
 
asxtb said:
Just thought of this...

Guy on first, 2 outs, batter hits a homerun. The runner misses 3rd base (or 2nd base) and is called out. What is the ruling on the homerun? Is it a homerun? Does 1 run score (the batter)? Is it a 0 RBI homerun? Or a 0 run homerun, for that matter. Or is the runner considered out before the homerun via a fielder's choice?

I, myself, don't know and wondering if anyone out there does? :confused:
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My guess is that if he misses third base, it's ruled a double and an out. (Single and out if he missed second base.) Not sure if the run scores, since he was only one base ahead of the hitter and the hitter didn't make it to third.

The only famous play I can think of that was similar to this was the bizarre ending to the perfect game that Harvey Haddix of the Pirates lost in 1959. After pitching 12 perfect innings, a Brave reached on an error and was moved to second on a sacrifice. Hank Aaron was then intentionally walked to set up a potential double play. Joe Adcock then hit what seemed like a three-run homer. (Did Haddix have the unluckiest game ever? I say yes.) The first runner scored, and apparently Aaron thought the hit had not cleared the wall. He walked off the field without heading to home plate and Adcock passed him on the basepaths. Both Aaron and Adcock were ruled out and Adcock's hit was reduced to a double. Not that calling them out affected the outcome of the game, since the winning run had already scored, but they had to be ruled out because they didn't legally cross home plate on the final play.

The last time I can remember a home run being interrupted was the time Robin Ventura hit it over the fence with the bases loaded for the Mets against the Braves in the (2000?) playoffs. Ventura was mobbed by his teammates after rounding first and never got to second. The runner at third was all that was needed to win the game, so that run counted, the Mets won, and Ventura was credited with a single.
 
IJ Reilly said:
I'm trying to think of any other situation where the ball would be considered out of play but not dead. A ground-rule double, I guess? And when exactly on a home run situation is the ball considered out of play? Surely not at the moment when the ball goes over the fence, since catches are often made over the fence.
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I think a ground-rule double is considered dead, since any other baserunners are awarded the appropriate number of bases and the fielders can't tag them out until a new ball is introduced.

My understanding is that a home run ball is dead when it lands fair over the outfield fence without being fielded. An outfielder can go over the fence -- even with his whole body -- to make it an out, as long as he catches it on the fly before it hits anything else, maintains possession of the ball the whole time, and can bring the ball back onto the field. It's actually the same as catching a foul ball in the stands. But it doesn't happen often on home runs because: (1) few outfield fences are short enough for an outfielder to hop over and still catch the ball; (2) unlike most foul balls, homers tend to be hit pretty hard, so an outfielder often doesn't have time to get under a ball that will clear the fence, even if he could jump over it; (3) obstacles are often between him and the spot the ball will land. Even if the seats are empty there, you'd have to climb over the seats and still get there in time to catch it. Very unlikely.
 
MacNut said:
If a runner fails to touch a base it would be ruled out after the play.
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Then if it is ruled out after the play the homerun would count.


aloofman said:
My guess is that if he misses third base, it's ruled a double and an out. (Single and out if he missed second base.) Not sure if the run scores, since he was only one base ahead of the hitter and the hitter didn't make it to third.

The only famous play I can think of that was similar to this was the bizarre ending to the perfect game that Harvey Haddix of the Pirates lost in 1959. After pitching 12 perfect innings, a Brave reached on an error and was moved to second on a sacrifice. Hank Aaron was then intentionally walked to set up a potential double play. Joe Adcock then hit what seemed like a three-run homer. (Did Haddix have the unluckiest game ever? I say yes.) The first runner scored, and apparently Aaron thought the hit had not cleared the wall. He walked off the field without heading to home plate and Adcock passed him on the basepaths. Both Aaron and Adcock were ruled out and Adcock's hit was reduced to a double. Not that calling them out affected the outcome of the game, since the winning run had already scored, but they had to be ruled out because they didn't legally cross home plate on the final play.

The last time I can remember a home run being interrupted was the time Robin Ventura hit it over the fence with the bases loaded for the Mets against the Braves in the (2000?) playoffs. Ventura was mobbed by his teammates after rounding first and never got to second. The runner at third was all that was needed to win the game, so that run counted, the Mets won, and Ventura was credited with a single.
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That makes a lot of sense. Thanks.
Also, when did they change the rule saying that for a walk off homerun, all runs would count. I believe in the past if the if a homerun was hit only the winning run was counted and the batter was credited with a double or something. (Unless I'm completely making this up. :eek: )

Edit: Ok I decided to not be so lazy and I did a little research. :D It was the 1920s when the rule changed.
Wikipedia (despite the fact I dislike it) said:
Further, the rules once stipulated that an over-the-fence home run in a sudden-victory situation would only count for as many bases as was necessary to "force" the winning run home. For example, if a team trailed by two runs with the bases loaded, and the batter hit a fair ball over the fence, it only counted as a triple, because the runner immediately ahead of him had technically already scored the game-winning run. That rule was changed in the 1920s as home runs became increasingly frequent and popular.
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