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Yeah, I'm not sure I understand what the issue is.

Apple: "Hey Random House, instead of letting the stores set the prices, YOU can set whatever prices you want, and we'll just take a small cut."

Random House: "But that will lead to price wars and reduce our profit!"

.... huh? :confused:

In the traditional publishing -> distributing -> retail route the MSRP and the associated actual sales prices are negotiated and agreed upon and not an easy thing to just change.

In Apple's agency model all it really takes the the publisher logging in and changing a price (simplified of course, but not by much).

So much like gas station that are on opposite corners a price war can and will occur without much warning.

But yes, I agree, it doesn't seem to make sense for Random House to stay out of the game. I mean why not make a small profit by selling on iBookstore than no profit at all?
 
yep, portable cassette players were awesome. Oh do you mean purchase more music as a lesser price? Yes, the iPod did that...but you can only listen to one song at a time, and it's arguable that people that weren't already listening to music on the road are listening to it now because of the iPod. Same with books...people aren't going to start reading because of the iPad. If electronic delivery increased reading, it was already accomplished by Sony and Amazon. Now we're just talking about moving deck chairs around.

Before the iTunes store I spent about $100 a year on CDs.

Now I spend about $300 a year on music online, at least. Possibly more. The iPod is DIRECTLY responsible for that. (For me, anyway.)

I refuse to believe that I'm unique in this case.
 
Price wars? If you want to buy The DaVinci Code, there's only one publisher selling it. It's not like DoubleDay is selling a copy of it for $8, and Random House needs to undercut them.

Each title is entirely unique and its appeal should stand on its own. If you're selling books by competing on price, you are saying that your books are easily substitutable, which means that they probably aren't very good.
 
Before the iTunes store I spent about $100 a year on CDs.

Now I spend about $300 a year on music online, at least. Possibly more. The iPod is DIRECTLY responsible for that. (For me, anyway.)

I refuse to believe that I'm unique in this case.

+1 and add this to my last post. I know I am not alone in this shift in behavior. Maybe "more people listen to music" should be changed to "more people buy music".
 
But you can listen to music while doing something else. Try that with reading a book/magazine.
 
Amazon's model is no wonderful place for publishers. Apple has a better platform, and if/when iPad becomes the iPod-like standard for e-books/small laptops, it will be interesting to see how these two compete.
 
I am not sure if I understand what is going on. Is Random House complaining they don't have an anti competitive advantage when pricing their products. They will not sell on the iPad unless they can remove price competition?
 
...

The reason that they don't want to set the prices is because right now they have a book, they sell it to Amazon for say $20 after that its out of their hands, if Amazon decides to sell it for $8 and start a price war it doesn't affect the publisher one bit. On the other hand if the publishers are setting the price and a price war starts (ala 99cent apps) then they are selling the title for $8 and now they have lost $12 per book (I have no idea what the real prices are I just used that as an example). By selling it indirectly they have no risk and a reliable profit stream, by selling directly they have to engage in price competition which they are more than happy to let amazon do instead
 
...

oh and once someone hacks a kindle and it then allows for free book downloads you can bet they will jump ship to the ipad so fast. That is the differance in the music industry, they had no choice but to embrace itunes and then try to drive people from napster to itunes out of fear of a lawsuit. People aren't stealing books on mass quantities yet
 
Count me in as another person who will read because of iPad. Sad but true. iPhone almost did it for me, but the screen is just too small.
 
30% is a pretty good sized cut.

When you consider transaction processing fees and hosting fees, not much is left. Not to mention, the free apps, books and music for which Apple actually pays, in a way, to host.

22 free apps are downloaded for every 1 paid app. So i actually doubt whether that 30% is enough to make up. :rolleyes:
 
The reason that they don't want to set the prices is because right now they have a book, they sell it to Amazon for say $20 after that its out of their hands, if Amazon decides to sell it for $8 and start a price war it doesn't affect the publisher one bit. On the other hand if the publishers are setting the price and a price war starts (ala 99cent apps) then they are selling the title for $8 and now they have lost $12 per book (I have no idea what the real prices are I just used that as an example). By selling it indirectly they have no risk and a reliable profit stream, by selling directly they have to engage in price competition which they are more than happy to let amazon do instead

Wow. You actually explained it in a way that makes sense. Good job!

While I see their point, they're clearly ignoring the fact that it will soon be very easy to either self-publish or to join some small pipsqueak publisher that ONLY does e-books and doesn't print.

These large companies will still have a lock on the Tom Clancy types who need a million books published, but the smaller authors are going to start drifting towards smaller companies that can just make them an e-book for very little cost.

In other words, they'll soon be much less important than they are now, so they really need to grab whatever e-book marketshare they can right now so they can convince smaller authors to come to them in the future instead of just self-publishing.

A large publisher CAN offer advantages (when it comes to marketing) but they won't be the only choice for much longer. They'd better start acknowledging that and coming up with a plan for it. Ignoing the iPad is not a good start.
 
Smells like a fresh load of B.S. to me. It's as-if there isn't a price war going on already in the dead tree segment. It's not hard at all to get a freshly published "best seller," or at least a book with large print numbers for 40% off list nor is it hard to find coupons for just about any other book for 30% off list.

I don't know what is really going on but a price war can only take prices down so low. Companies are not going to sell at a loss. Moreover, publishers are like mini-monopolies (legal ones of course).

If I want Steven Kings latest it's not like I can shop around Random House, and Putnam, and St. Martins Press. No, I have to buy it on the Scribner imprint. Moreover, If I want to read Steven King's latest I'm not going to substitute with Janet Evanovich's current book. So pricing may be "competitive," but isn't going to be a race to the bottom unless the book is pure c.r.a.p.
 
I refuse to believe that I'm unique in this case.

I don't think you are, I certainly buy more now as it's much easier to do! Hell I don't even have to get out of bed on Sunday to go to the record store! ;)

With that said, I find it hard to get on with the concept of eReaders. Unlike CDs, I like the physical form of a book. I like to hold it, I like the way a book smells and I enjoy watching it get dogeared and tattered as it's read. Aye, I know, it's a little romantic.

Perhaps in time I'll change, and maybe the iPad is the device for it. But I do feel that the nostalgia and romance that surrounds the written word is going to be a different ball game than CDs have proven to have been.

Of course, time will tell.
 
The reason that they don't want to set the prices is because right now they have a book, they sell it to Amazon for say $20 after that its out of their hands, if Amazon decides to sell it for $8 and start a price war it doesn't affect the publisher one bit. On the other hand if the publishers are setting the price and a price war starts (ala 99cent apps) then they are selling the title for $8 and now they have lost $12 per book (I have no idea what the real prices are I just used that as an example). By selling it indirectly they have no risk and a reliable profit stream, by selling directly they have to engage in price competition which they are more than happy to let amazon do instead

This is basically correct. This is all about "The Agency Model" vs. the traditional book pricing model—not Amazon vs. Apple.

Per the FT piece, "In early February, Random House president Madeline McIntosh told booksellers about a series of concerns that publishers "have no real experience at setting retail prices" and that the agency model means authors' receipts are directly affected by discounting."

That is, under the old way, if Barnes and Noble sells hardcovers at 30% off, the author (and publisher) still get the usual cut. Under this new model, they would actually get a proportionally smaller percentage, even though the price the customers pay may be higher. Go figure.
 
I've already changed thanks to Stanza on my iPod touch. I no longer enjoy physical books. I want to read everything electronically now.

Younger folks won't have any reason to ever buy a physical book.

This is the future of publishing. The publishing houses know it. They are just arguing over the pricing models.
 
Wow. You actually explained it in a way that makes sense. Good job!

While I see their point, they're clearly ignoring the fact that it will soon be very easy to either self-publish or to join some small pipsqueak publisher that ONLY does e-books and doesn't print.

These large companies will still have a lock on the Tom Clancy types who need a million books published, but the smaller authors are going to start drifting towards smaller companies that can just make them an e-book for very little cost.

In other words, they'll soon be much less important than they are now, so they really need to grab whatever e-book marketshare they can right now so they can convince smaller authors to come to them in the future instead of just self-publishing.

A large publisher CAN offer advantages (when it comes to marketing) but they won't be the only choice for much longer. They'd better start acknowledging that and coming up with a plan for it. Ignoing the iPad is not a good start.

The problem I see is that the most important part of publishing (and the most costly) is editing. Even a good author needs skilled readers to go through their books and rip big chunks out. New authors need even more help. I don't see M&P Epubs providing this service. If they do, I do not see them doing it well.
 
Doing the math

http://www.amazon.com/In-Cold-Blood...=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269445158&sr=1-3

KD $4.95
HC $14.96
PB $10.20

Mind you Amazon just raised it's cut to publishers to 70% to match apples...

so Apple's 30% cut was attractive along with being able to set price, now the only lever is that publishers can set price.

When Amazon is selling books at/below cost ... 30% of 0 = 0.

What is the cost of a book when it's only delivered electronically???
Time of the editors + writers? should be pennies on the dollar with "millions of copies sold".
 
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I certainly listen to more music (and buy much more) since I got an iPod. Never underestimate how fickle consumers are - I may want to read the latest Stephen King book, but never get around to actually going into the bookstore to buy it. With an iPad or Kindle in hand, there's only a few clicks between hearing about the new book and shelling out money for it.

I remember a new device that made people listen to mobile music more.


Apples and oranges. Music is passive I can do a lot of things while I listen. Reading is not. I have to carve out time for it, lots of time. Sure, everyone will rush out to the new Apple Bookstore to buy a book. Most will probably not get more than a few chapter in. The vast majority will probably never buy one again.
 
except for the other publishers to match RH's price offered at amazon, they'll have to take a bath under Apple's pricing strategy...if RH holds tight, guarantee the iBookstore sees major changes, or the publishers are going to be changing their minds on distribution.

What you say may, or may not be the case but none of this give Apple any reason to change their model. The hardware will sell irrespective of RH's position and actions. Apple's long-term strategy for 'print media' is not going to change at this point just to get RH into the iBookStore.
 
Yeah, I'm not sure I understand what the issue is.

Apple: "Hey Random House, instead of letting the stores set the prices, YOU can set whatever prices you want, and we'll just take a small cut."

Random House: "But that will lead to price wars and reduce our profit!"

.... huh? :confused:

Exactly. I'm not sure why their authors would stick with Random House in the longer term when they offer a competitive distribution disadvantage.

Author: "Why can't people buy my book with the iPad"

Random House: "we might make less money"

Author: "Who wins if people can't buy my book??? I'm outta here when my contract expires"
 
Makes sense to me.

If RHI sells a book for $20, they remain competitive with B&N, Borders, etc. and make a very nice profit.

However, selling the e-book takes money from the brick and mortar store, which will then purchase less volume, decreasing the publishers revenue from physical products. Additionally, it harms the ability for a brick and mortar store to function, possibly driving them out of business. Boarders is on the brink of financial ruin, last I checked they owed something like 90% of their equity to creditors.

If the iPad really gets people to read, it could be a godsend to brick and mortar stores, and the book publishing industry as a whole. However, if it doesn't get more people to start reading, but only dilutes the market even more, then it has the ability to destroy the market, where the only stores left selling books are Wal*Mart, Apple, and mayyyyybe Barnes and Noble.

Worse still, Wal*Mart sells their books very near cost. If Barnes and Noble and Borders fold, the worst case scenario just got worse still, where you are only left with Wal*Mart and Apple as booksellers.

If that is the case, and Wal*Mart sells their $20 books for $10, than the book publishers must lower their prices at the Apple store, or raise Wal*Mart's prices. Raise them too much, and Wal*Mart will carry less.

In this very pessimistic world, you you have a war where the publishers end up fighting for lower prices, and ultimately end up as the only distributor for their product. (This is similar to how all of the major record stores are slowly folding up, and Wal*Mart is becoming the only place to purchase music, aside from iTunes/Amazon.)

RHI chose to sit this one out, and I believe, in the interests of helping brick and mortar book stores, that it is the correct decision.

N.B.: When I say Wal*Mart, I mean walmart-esque big-box all-in-one stores, including best buy or target. What I do not mean are small mom and pop stores, or specialized stores that carry less trafficked or marginalized items.

So if I understand this right...

Apple is giving the book publishers exactly what the music labels have been begging for all these years, right?

The music people haven't gotten it, but the book people have, and the book people are afraid of it?

Are books that much different from music here? Or is one of these 2 industries being stupid?
Well, first, books are not stolen from the publishers at the same rate that music was pirated. 2nd of all, if books are stolen, it is the retail store's problem, not the publishers (99.999% of the time). Lastly, the music industry HATES iTunes. So even if they are 100% similar businesses, the book industry is right to fear it, just on principle.
 
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