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Rant time - want mid range desktop
- Thread starter jrichie
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No, we're complaining that they actually do NOT have one. At least I am. They do have the iMacs but those aren't really DeskTops to me. iMacs are "compo's" or "Consoles" or "Kiosks" or something. You already know the issues: Not user serviceable, no space for upgrades, not available without monitor or with the monitor of choice, etc.
No Mac Pro will profile like a "mid-range" consumer grade desktop. Part of this "profile" is price yes but that's not all of it. At least this is my thinking anyway. Xeons are server parts and xeon based systems almost always profile like servers. To me a "mid-range" consumer grade desk-top is:
- $1,000
- 3.2 - 4.0 GHz 2 or 4 core CPU (after over clocking),
- 2 to 4 GB RAM Expandable to 8 or 16 GB (cheapest type - Not FB-DIMMs
),
- 2 to 4 HDD drive bays,
- One or two 5.25" drive bays,
- 4890 GPU or similar,
- Fully supports Crossover or SLI,
- 5-1 Sound card,
- One gigabit LAN port,
- 4 to 6 USB ports,
- FireWire Optional,
- PSU that just meets these requirements.
Can't be done... I don't think. By specifying "Fully supports Crossover or SLI", you are restricted to X58 motherboards (trust me you don't want an Nvidia Core 2 chipset) which are $300-$400 alone. Add another $300 for a Core i7 processor (2.66 that you earlier considered embarrassing) and a $250 graphics card and you have nothing left.
Can't be done... I don't think. By specifying "Fully supports Crossover or SLI", you are restricted to X58 motherboards (trust me you don't want an Nvidia Core 2 chipset) which are $300-$400 alone. Add another $300 for a Core i7 processor (2.66 that you earlier considered embarrassing) and a $250 graphics card and you have nothing left.
Look. I am just about to pull the trigger on a new i7 system, which I will subsequently retrofit with 10.5.7 using EFI emulation.. Gigabyte X58/i7 920/4870 video/Blu-Ray/SSD boot drive.. All for under $1300 (I already have keyboard/screen). Good luck with your $2,500 MacPro.
That's a good deal. I feel like I'm the only one who thinks Apple brings sufficient value for the dollar.
I definitely understand you can build computers for a lot less. I just don't think Apple can, should, or will. I'm going to stop posting in these threads though since I feel it's getting a bit tense. No knocks against the DIY'ers or Hackintosh's... it's where my roots lie so I'm with you! 
That's a good deal. I feel like I'm the only one who thinks Apple brings sufficient value for the dollar.
It really depends on your view point. Just remember that there are people on this forum comming at it from all angles. I'm sure the quad Mac Pro could be $1,500 and Apple would make a nice profit on every system sold. They are happy with using their own pricing model rather than how everyone else does it.
I don't disagree with you at all... In fact, myself and some friends have lamented the same thing... If you don't like the whole "all in one" solution that the iMac represents (I need multiple drives, the ability to change or add a 2nd video card), the ability to run more than 2 monitors, you're kinda stuck jumping all the way up to the Mac Pro...
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my new 2009 Mac Pro, but it honestly is a bit of overkill for my needs. But I had 3 monitors that I wanted to use, 3 hard drives from my old Windows system I wanted to pull over, etc. I would have rather Apple offered something that had, say, 2 video card slots, 2 hard drive bays, 1-2 optical bays, single DESKTOP quad core processor, and offered it for around the price of the highest iMac. Call it the "MacDesk" or something like that...
My previous mac desktop was a Mac mini. And it was great, but it was too limited in expansion options, couldn't do more than 1 monitor (it was an older model.)
I think Apple doesn't offer such a product because it would cannabilize the sales of both the low end Pro and the High end iMacs... and lets face it, Steve HATES "towers". But you'd think they could come up with a compelling design... The old Cube was pretty slick looking, and it had some of these kinds of features...
Sigh, I guess we can dream....
Oh, yeah, and sure there's the Hackintosh route... But you know, I have built a ton of machines over the years. Frankly, these days, my time is more important to me. I don't want to be screwing around dealing with hacks and fixes and workarounds to get things going... I want to USE my computer. It was fun when I was younger and had less responsibilities and things requiring my time. Now, I have limited time to tinker....
I tried the Hackintosh route... So did a buddy... While they worked, there were always issues. Ok, it's gotten better since then... But what happens at some point down the line (or maybe in 10.6?) if Apple puts something in there that breaks all you guys? Then what? You're screwed. Your machine suddenly stops working and you gotta spend MORE time fixing it instead of using it...
No thanks, I'll stick to actual Apple hardware from here on out... Might not give as many options, might cost a bit more upfront, but I know when I hit that power button it's going to boot, I know when I hit Software Updates the machine will reboot afterwards. And I know when 10.6 comes out, I can just merrily go to the apple store, plunk down my $$, put the DVD in the drive and it'll work without having to hunt all over the net for patches, fixes and hacks....
To each their own though! Enjoy!!! If you have the time and love of tinkering to do it, go for it!
I tried the Hackintosh route... So did a buddy... While they worked, there were always issues. Ok, it's gotten better since then... But what happens at some point down the line (or maybe in 10.6?) if Apple puts something in there that breaks all you guys? Then what? You're screwed. Your machine suddenly stops working and you gotta spend MORE time fixing it instead of using it...
No thanks, I'll stick to actual Apple hardware from here on out... Might not give as many options, might cost a bit more upfront, but I know when I hit that power button it's going to boot, I know when I hit Software Updates the machine will reboot afterwards. And I know when 10.6 comes out, I can just merrily go to the apple store, plunk down my $$, put the DVD in the drive and it'll work without having to hunt all over the net for patches, fixes and hacks....
To each their own though! Enjoy!!! If you have the time and love of tinkering to do it, go for it!
You know what guys... I think I am going to have to get the low end pro.....
I really need the desktop right now, and am no way getting an imac again [for all the good reasons mentioned by Snouter etc]. Ideally, as discussed, is a mid range i7 system that allows me easy upgrades as and when I can afford it, and allows me to plug in the dual ACD's.
Not a system that is NZ$5500 to start off with.......
Anyway, I am going to have to make the move this weekend on this - I have promised renders and all sorts to a client and I think my Ali MB will blow up soon with the amount of pressure I am putting on it.
Issues like this, make me actually hate Apple. For 90% of the time I love my macs, but then there is always something that pisses you off!! I am struggling to get my business going and don't really need this dent in the accounts!
Although maybe I should hold off to WWDC or a bit later and see if anything magical happens, but I strongly doubt it.
Perhaps Apple are real marketing genius's though - get you hooked on a mac, then tempt you with high end models with no other options!!!
just bite the bullet and get the mac pro-you'll be happy after the initial price shock
i did that after the first revision (in '07, i think) because i needed the horsepower pronto. i looked into building my own windows box but it priced out the same, so i bought the low end mp. i love that it's so upgradeable and dependable.
i'm not super rich either, i'm an artist and teacher!
Can't be done... I don't think. By specifying "Fully supports Crossover or SLI", you are restricted to X58 motherboards (trust me you don't want an Nvidia Core 2 chipset) which are $300-$400 alone. Add another $300 for a Core i7 processor (2.66 that you earlier considered embarrassing) and a $250 graphics card and you have nothing left.
Either or... Not both. This is the meaning of "or".
- http://forums.vr-zone.com/overclocking-bazaar/71328-5-8ghz-abit-oc-verified.html
- http://digg.com/hardware/Newest_Intel_E8500_overclocked_to_5_8Ghz
- http://www.eggxpert.com/forums/thread/265790.aspx
- http://xtreview.com/addcomment-id-3593-view-Intel-yorkfield-air-overclocking.html
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30aZ...ow.com/Overclock-a-PC&feature=player_embedded
- http://xtreview.com/addcomment-id-7158-view-Core-i7-new-overclock-world-record.html
Still laughing?
Hey Chaosbunny, you basically describe my old setup!
The thing about the imacs is I felt I was being ripped off a bit.... you get a monitor you don't want and will be guaranteed to be upgrading in a years time rather than upping the video card or adding more storage.
I don't want much - only a desktop more powerful than an imac, with pci slots and a couple of HD's.
As you say, I am leaning towards a windows 7 install on a mid range i7 Dell. It will be have to be hidden carefully under my desk so no-one sees, considerding I tell everyone to get a mac
Really, the answer to the mid-range tower question is a late-model G5 or an early Mac Pro. They're exactly what you're describing.
Sorry, I believed you all along.
I belong to a gaming forum so I know what PCs are capable of.
I am laughing because I can't picture the time, effort, and money it would take to use liquid nitrogen for overclocking.
Personally I'd be happy with an i7 975 overclocked to 4.2 GHz with standard cooling.
.
Well yeah, but you don't need nitrogen for what I'm talking about. Guys are getting 4.0 ~ 4.5 with just air and a little past 5.0 with water. I think with just phase-change cooling somewhere between 5.0 and 5.5 could probably be achieved. But yeah I agree my high end of range is a little too up there.
I can see why you laughed actually. Also i typoed... I wanted to say 4.0 to 5.8 and not 5.0 to 5.8. Liquid nitrogen or liquid helium isn't really practical. Those classify more as science experiments to me. Ok - have managed to find the deal I want! No windows for me..........
2nd hand dual 2.8 quad pro which also involves swapping my macbook. So everyone is happy
I hadn't seen one that was at the right price / spec etc. for ages and lucky for me, one pops up, just as I start the rant on here!
This is amazing timing for me, however will have to upgrade the video card.
FYI guys, there is no way I would ever buy a G5 - I think that would be a big mistake and totally limiting for the future......
Anyway that's me sorted [hopefully if the deal goes through] however still no mid - range mac!!!
Hackintosh is a bad idea for a business [fine for home] and perhaps this computer I am getting will be way over specced for what I need most of the time. We will see
2nd hand dual 2.8 quad pro which also involves swapping my macbook. So everyone is happy
I hadn't seen one that was at the right price / spec etc. for ages and lucky for me, one pops up, just as I start the rant on here!
This is amazing timing for me, however will have to upgrade the video card.
FYI guys, there is no way I would ever buy a G5 - I think that would be a big mistake and totally limiting for the future......
Anyway that's me sorted [hopefully if the deal goes through] however still no mid - range mac!!!
Hackintosh is a bad idea for a business [fine for home] and perhaps this computer I am getting will be way over specced for what I need most of the time. We will see
BTW, for those interested in what phase-change cooling looks like and how it's implemented have a look at this article: http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&number=1&artpage=1257&articID=307 It's one of a few designs which are quite reasonable and practical IMO.
Well, hopefully they'll make it clear this week at the developer's conference.
Lets say that Apple made a mid-ranged desktop with i7 (Screenless, made of all desktop parts, in a smaller Mac Pro casing) around $1200-$1600.
Who would buy an iMac?
Who would buy an iMac?
those who dont already have a monitor and like the imac look
if it were up to me, the imac should be discontinued. i hate aio
So the techy people (Like yourself, and most of the people on this forum) hate the iMac because it's not a true desktop (Made of desktop parts) and is an AIO.
So you wouldn't buy it (as well as most people on this forum)
The non-techy people (General Consumer) think that higher numbers (RAM, Hard drive, Clock speed) mean it's faster. They'll see that the iMac doesn't have comparable specs, so they won't buy it.
Who will buy it? Close to a thousand people in the world...
So yeah.
I would. As long as it's a Quad-Core Mac "Pro" that's close to $1500, I'll but it.
I'm leaning towards buying the Mac Pro this summer instead of the top iMac because the Mac Pro will most likely last me 10 years. The iMac will become outdated tech as soon as they start putting Quad Cores in them.
I'd certainly buy one if the price was competitive with a comparable Windows box. And you know, Apple has a single-CPU Mac Pro already.