RAW support = no Apple Noise Reduction

Discussion in 'iOS 10' started by MattXDA, Sep 14, 2016.

  1. MattXDA macrumors 6502

    MattXDA

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    #1
    If you're like me and hate the excessive noise reduction that Apple applies to your photos, shooting in RAW using Adobe Lightroom doesn't apply any noise reduction and the photos look so much clearer. It's like having a whole new camera and I can't wait to try it out on the 7 Plus!
     
  2. madmaxmedia, Sep 14, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2016

    madmaxmedia macrumors 68030

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    #2
    I assumed that it would only be for iPhone 7, just found out I have RAW now on my 'new' iPhone 6s Plus- so happy!! I think Apple's JPG processing is pretty good for a camera phone, but I hate excessive noise reduction in my cameras. So this is pretty awesome!! It will also be great for increasing dynamic range.

    I guess RAW capture will not be in the default Camera app, but can be used in 3rd party apps?

    Just downloaded Lightroom to try it out. I guess when you shoot with Lightroom, it saves images (DNG or JPEG) to its own camera roll. You can then export to the iPhone's camera roll, as a JPEG. I guess at some point we will be able to shoot RAW and transfer to computer, etc.

    I use Snapseed and VSCO a lot, will be interesting to see if RAW support is added to those.
     
  3. DomC macrumors 6502

    DomC

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    #3
    Are you actually shooting in Lightroom, or just processing in it? Also, what sort of RAW files to you end up with? DNG?
     
  4. madmaxmedia, Sep 14, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2016

    madmaxmedia macrumors 68030

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    #4
  5. MattXDA thread starter macrumors 6502

    MattXDA

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    #5
  6. DomC macrumors 6502

    DomC

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    #6
    Thanks. I know that ProCamera is coming out with RAW support. But I don't know what format they will be saving to. Hopefully DNG.
     
  7. Kjung7 macrumors 6502

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    #7
    Wow RAW looks a ton better. Did you do post processing on Lightroom mobile for the RAW photos?
     
  8. Razeus macrumors 603

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    #8
    Lightroom will capture raw and edit the raw. The raw file is a dng file (obviously).
     
  9. madmaxmedia macrumors 68030

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    #9
    It turns out I had previously purchased Obscura, so was able to update and try shooting RAW. Obscura saves RAW (DNG) images right to the stock camera roll, about 12MB per RAW. When you view the RAW's in the stock Photos app, you are actually viewing the low-res embedded JPG and not the actual RAW image.

    I'm sure more and more photo viewing and editing apps will be adding RAW capability. I wouldn't be surprised if the stock Photos app adds more RAW functionality at some point too.

    VSCO has announced they will be adding RAW support, to be able to shoot RAW and have VSCO apply filters to RAW file is pretty great:
    http://vsco.co/vsco/journal/raw-capabilities-coming-soon

    Here's a good overview of RAW in iOS 10:
    http://www.imore.com/how-raw-changes-iphone-photography-better

    The example of the building shows very well the extra headroom you get with RAW. For day to day, I'll still shoot JPEG because the iPhone does it pretty well already. But the option to shoot RAW will be great to have.
     
  10. DomC macrumors 6502

    DomC

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    #10
    Interesting. I've been shooting TIFF for a while and that's about the file size I get from those on my 6s. I will appreciate the extra latitude with RAW though.
    As I mentioned in another thread, I also want to see how third party apps like Snapseed adjust to RAW. They can edit TIFF now, but the resulting file is a compressed JPG with a .tif extension!
     
  11. MattXDA thread starter macrumors 6502

    MattXDA

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    #11
    No processing at all - it's just avoiding Apples processing which tends to blur the image to remove noise, an effect I personally don't like as I would rather have the full sharpness
     
  12. madmaxmedia macrumors 68030

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    #12
    I just found out- Snapseed has already added RAW support to the iOS app! Funny, the editing tools are different- with RAW you get Exposure, Highlights, Shadows, Contrast, Structure, Saturation, Temperature, Tint- very traditional controls as opposed to the standard tools (I like Ambiance setting a lot.)

    I am playing around with Google Photos, which I use to automatically back up my iPhone camera roll. The full resolution DNG is uploaded, but what is actually stored in the cloud is a JPEG. I wonder if support for RAW cloud storage will be added.

     
  13. zhenya macrumors 603

    zhenya

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    #13
    Finally! That water-color post processing effect has been driving me nuts since the first pictures I took with my 6! Hopefully there will soon be an easy method to get this will all photos!
     
  14. DomC macrumors 6502

    DomC

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    #14
    If you choose Save as Copy in Snapseed, what is the resulting format?
    Too bad about Ambience, I like that too.
     
  15. madmaxmedia macrumors 68030

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    #15
    Okay, here's some results with Snapseed-

    First of all, you can use the original editing tools (Ambiance, etc.) With RAW files you just get access to an additional set of tools (called DEVELOP), which are the controls I mentioned before.

    Here's what happens with the Save options:

    SAVE- It basically overwrites the original embedded JPEG with a full-resolution version with your edits. Here is the trick- edits with the RAW tool set are preserved, edits with the JPEG tools are not. Depending on which tool set you select, you either get the original RAW file previewed, or the edited JPEG. It was confusing at first, but makes a lot of sense I think. The original RAW data will always be there, with your RAW tweaks as metadata. You can use the other JPEG tools, the end result is you can export a JPEG with your edits cooked in.

    SAVE A COPY- Seems to basically save another RAW file, with a full resolution embedded JPEG.

    EXPORT- Exports a JPEG.
     
  16. robgendreau macrumors 68040

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    #16
    How do you find a RAW in order to try to import it into Snapseed? I can't figure out which of the images I have in the camera roll actually are raw (or I guess have a RAW pair with the JPEG that one sees).

    Also using the iPhone 6s+ camera in Snapseed I get a 12MP image, but no Develop tools, so I assume it's JPEG?
     
  17. madmaxmedia macrumors 68030

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    #17
    You need a 3rd party app that will take RAW photos and save to the iOS camera roll. Lightroom takes RAW photos but seems to save to its own storage area.

    I posted links before, to 2 3rd party apps that claim to shoot RAW. I have only used Obscura, seems like a good app but it is more expensive of the 2 I hound.
     
  18. DomC macrumors 6502

    DomC

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    #18
    Thanks a lot for the info.

    With Save what is the format of the edit then? JPG? Kind of don't trust Snapseed with how they save at this point!

    When you Save as Copy what is the format?

    If you would bring anything from Snapseed into Lightroom mobile or desktop, does Lightroom see anything that Snapseed saves as RAW?
     
  19. robgendreau macrumors 68040

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    #19
    BTW the camera app "Manual" also does RAW from the iOS camera, or RAW+JPEG as well. Snapseed imports them and works on 'em in RAW with the Develop tools.
    --- Post Merged, Sep 14, 2016 ---
    Saving in Snapseed is done within the app. Exporting is sending to another app, and it exports a JPEG and settings for the JPEG are set in the app's prefs. Save a copy seems to put a DNG in the camera roll, but iOS is gonna send the generated JPEG from that if you mess with it directly from the Photos app. Lr Mobile IDs it as a DNG.

    Not sure what you "don't trust" about JPEG and DNG, but file management in iOS is a pain and this is an example.

    When you save a copy from Snapseed to the camera roll, you can revert to the original DNG. But I think that means it just dumps the preview; you can't readjust say shadows or WB. It's all or nothing. When that copy from Snapseed is imported into LrM it comes in as the original DNG without any adjustments.

    The whole point of DNG is that it's RAW, so this is expected. An app should only store the adjustment parameters in the DNG, NOT anything that changes the raw data itself. So Snapseed doesn't save anything as "raw."
     
  20. M. Gustave macrumors 68000

    M. Gustave

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    #20
    If we're seeing it on the screen, it's been processed, whether you chose the settings or not. And I'm sorry, but there is something dreadfully wrong with your first photo in that comparison. I've never had a photo come out of the stock camera app looking like that. I see the two shots are not framed the same, and I think you missed focus. What was the workflow?
     
  21. madmaxmedia macrumors 68030

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    #21
    Here's another tip- the Structure slider in Snapseed is really good, off the top of my head it is similar to the Clarity slider in ACR.
     
  22. hieubui.rtz macrumors member

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    #22
    Yes, it's been processed what is seen on the screen but definitely not been applied color, detail filter and compressed into jpeg like normal, so we have more room to edit with RAW. Set aside the focus, just look at the dark area and compare the noise level
     
  23. M. Gustave macrumors 68000

    M. Gustave

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    #23
    I'm aware of the benefits and drawbacks of shooting raw. But his example was not a proper comparison.
     
  24. zhenya macrumors 603

    zhenya

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    #24
    Proper comparison or not, it proves that the watercolor effect that was introduced with the iPhone 6 (I saw it immediately on my first shots with that phone on a beautifully sunny September day) is in Apple's processing and can now be worked around. Since I'm just a casual photographer I'm hoping that there is an app quickly released that provides some less obvious automatic processing than Apple has chosen. I hate the watercolor effect all recent iPhones have had but there is no way I will be editing RAW photos more than on rare occasion.
     
  25. Nozuka macrumors 68000

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    #25
    lol what the hell is apple doing with the pictures? raw looks so much better.
     

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