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You guys are forgetting that Apple is in the hardware business, they just happen to have some great software. I suspect Apple wants to pass the torch to other companies when it comes to professional software.

Apple may be a hardware company but got where they are today by making software that creates a good user experience. Screwing over your clients with a product that not only requires re-training of users but can't even do as much as the version it replaced is not what any sane person would call a good user experience.

Apple's recent history is filled with discontinued professional products. It certainly doesn't give one much faith that Mac hardware is a good long term investment upon which to build a successful business.

Once that faith is gone asking for a free crossgrade to Avid for Windows may not be much of a leap. Today Apple has lost a volume license for FCP. Tomorrow they may lose a hardware order that would have netted $100,000 in profit.

Next year some of the employees will opt to run the same OS at home as they do at work. How many minutes will it take for them, or more likely their kids, to declare iTunes for Windows a steaming pile? When that happens an entire family will be one small step from becoming fandroids.
 
Great job Apple!! Next up: push the IT people and large companies out the door by discontinuing Mac OS X Server and the Mac Pro (not that they haven't ruined Mac OS X Server enough with Lion and they stopped selling Xserve). Then developers! And if fewer people are making apps for Apple's devices, the why would you buy an iPad? You don't buy it because you have money to burn and need extra weight to carry. You buy it because of the awesome apps that "advanced users" make. Apple shouldn't be going in this direction...
 
Maybe Apple was thinging that they don't need to care about high end professionals because for every one of them there are 1,000 guys shot shoot weddings and do corporate training videos and what not. That that is Apple's real market.

The trouble is that the 2nd the 3rd tier pros and hobby market looks to the high end to see what they use.

Also every entry level pro wants to move up. He wnts to have his resume look good and for that he'll want to be using the same software and gear as the top level people use. Apple needs to cappture the high end market if they want the mid range market

This is what Apple gets for doing things in secret. If they had been giving away free Beta versions for a year they would have heard the feedback and switched plans before it was to late
 
You shouldn't attempt to fix something that's not broke.

I've used FCP6 before and I can tell you, it was in dire need of an overhaul. It's just too bad that in the process of making FCPX so many features didn't make it from FCP6. (Although, TBH, I haven't tried FCPX, so for all I know all the features of FCP6 that I love are still in FCPX.)
 
"Their commitment to the needs of their professional customers, like us, is clear"

That is the key sentence. I wouldn't trust Apple for any business anymore - they just can't be trusted.
 
"Their commitment to the needs of their professional customers, like us, is clear"

That is the key sentence. I wouldn't trust Apple for any business anymore - they just can't be trusted.

Stella, the fanboys will simply say that Apple doesn't care if you trust them anymore. They don't need you, they've got the consumer.

I would say, trusting in the loyalty of consumers is a bit like a sheep trusting the wolves to decide on dinner plans.
 
Stella, the fanboys will simply say that Apple doesn't care if you trust them anymore. They don't need you, they've got the consumer.

I would say, trusting in the loyalty of consumers is a bit like a sheep trusting the wolves to decide on dinner plans.

Yep - consumers quickly change fashions. Its pretty lucky that Apple have been innovative enough to keep the interest.. but how long will it continue? Not indefinitely thats for certain.

For businesses, its a shame because OSX makes a damned good productive OS ( depending on the type of activity of course ).

Businesses can add a huge amount of income to the bottom line... its a shame Apple doesn't - putting all eggs in one basket.
 
This should really surprise no one. The quote, "Their commitment to the needs of their professional customers, like us, is clear." should sting. Apple, Inc's entire direction is away from the professional consumer who helped build their success in the first place (killing Xserve, the FCP debacle, nebulous MacPro future, Lion!). You've made your choice, Apple. Now sleep in the bed you've made.

lmao sleep in the bed they've made, of 70Billion dollars... apple is so affected by this :rolleyes:

How entitled you are sir. God forbid apple acts as a business should to appease the "professionals", and expand and improve, and earn more profit (the point of a business), as it should.
 
Hopefully Peter Steinauer is using this and other examples as bulletin board material to motivate the designers and programmers to get their **** together. If FCPX2 doesn't come out within the next year and address almost all the complaints from professionals, they can kiss the pro video and film market goodbye for the foreseeable future.

Companies and editors are not going to stay on FCP7 for another few years waiting for FCPX to be brought back up to standard. Many of them will likely switch to Avid or Premiere as well as replacing their machines with Windows PCs. Once this happens, it will be another 3-5 years before they would even consider switching back to FCPX, and many wouldn't do so just because of this previous headache and lost trust in Apple.

What really bothers me about this is that Apple has many editors and creative professionals who have had their back and have been pushing for them for years within companies. They have had to fight long and hard to get managers and others to justify spending more on Apple Hardware. Now they look bad, and will likely have a harder time being trusted when it comes to purchase decisions. I really feel sorry for anyone who had their news stations or other large scale companies fully invest in FCP Server to only have it be discontinued 2 years later.

I for one will not be sticking my neck out for Apple anymore in professional settings, as I've been burned by them enough to where it's making me look bad. I have begun advising clients and others to switch to Avid or Premiere if they are going to upgrade their systems. As someone who has been a long time supporter of Apple since the early 90's using Adobe products and then onto FCP and Logic, it's sad to see the company that helped inspire me into my current career begin to abandon my field and turn almost all of their focus on consumer goods.
 
Has any high profile editors publicly gone fcpX? I'd assume very few if so.

You assume based on the lack of folks jumping up to say that they have but in honesty, how many editors talk about what they use. Few. So who is to know what they are using or not. Or if they aren't using FCPX why? Perhaps they don't like it, perhaps they aren't using it for money projects because they are still learning it and don't want to hold up a deadline while they do this so they are finishing with whatever they were using before.

Frankly I doubt that Apple or anyone else is really going to be swayed by a company that edits a couple of well known reality shows and one that many people had no clue was still on. Get Oscar names taking to the game to say that FCPX is utter tripe and they are done with Apple and then people might care, especially up and coming editors that want to be the next Murch, Kahn, Weisblum, Rivkin. NOT the next Bunim/Murray

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Apple, Inc's entire direction is away from the professional consumer who helped build their success in the first place (killing Xserve, the FCP debacle, nebulous MacPro future, Lion!). You've made your choice, Apple. Now sleep in the bed you've made.

I"m sure they are sleeping just fine with their decision to put the needs of the consumer and prosumer miles ahead of what the geeks and professionals say is vital.
 
This is no skin of Apple's......apple?

They are, and they are sleeping like babies.

I mean...really though? You think that professionals switching to Avid is somehow going to slow growth of iOS devices and hurt Apple's bottom line?


lmao sleep in the bed they've made, of 70Billion dollars... apple is so affected by this :rolleyes:

vanitym.jpg
 
Im surprised they held out this long.

As someone who not only fully supports FCP-X, but also believes it is a fantastic program, this announcement doesn't phase me whatsoever.

If their workflow looks even half like what I think it does, I am surprised they held out so long.

The hint here is that its not just MC, but a full AVID solution. That means everything from PT edit bays to ISIS storage, MC editing, MAM management, DS ingest, AVID Motion CG, Symphony finishing, etc.

For the type of work they do, I would postulate that this really isn't an FCP vs AVID issue so much as an overall workflow issue.

For those unfamiliar, an AVID workflow gives significant workflow and business benefits (at significant cost....).

If I were in their shoes and could write the check, I absolutely would.

And thats coming from someone who thinks FCP-X is a significant all-around upgrade over FCS3.

Karl P
 
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The cultural value of MTV "reality" shows is barely above that of porn. These people are responsible for such gems as Keeping Up With The Kardashians (and other runoff from that family), Bad Girls Club, Girl Next Door, The Simple Life, Living Lohan, etc. Perhaps FCPX lacked the Add More Douche filter that is essential to every successful reality tv series.
 
If you lose the pro market, you lose the student and wanna-be pro market.

Good point. Glowing figures aside, the old perception looms menacingly on the horizon: Apple makes toys for noobs and the illiterate, but not serious computers for serious work. Perception is everything.

It was annoying when it wasn't true, and depressing that it's increasingly becoming so. Of all the companies that could do a great job in the pro market, Apple has the most resources in $ and visionaries. If they only could find the will again.

That said, I'm glad to see Bunim/Murray struggle. Their "Reality" TV is the main reason I gave away our TVs & wrote the whole stinking medium off for good. Truly the most awful boot-sticking #$% I've ever seen.
 
Not surprised at all by this news, though it is disheartening that Apple doesn't seem to want to comment on this stuff. Between the public relations nightmare that was FCPX, the nebulous future of PCI-X equipped Macs, and the perpetual issues plaguing Logic Pro, the pro market does seem to be less and less of a focus on Apple's part.

Do you want to know what I think the single biggest issue is? Their stupid, stupid, moronic, idiotic corporate communications policy. It is all well and good to be mum on consumer developments - after all, hype is a great marketing tool - but when you're dealing with professionals, they can't be left in the dark in the way that Apple has perpetually left [us] in the dark. To be frank, I've been seriously considering jumping ship from my Logic/Apple based rig (I'm a music/sound engineer and producer) to a Cubase/Windows based one, mostly because I am tired of waiting to hear news about the new Mac Pros. My system right now is stopgap, and has been for over a year, waiting for that announcement. The same goes for Logic Pro 10/X - there are glaring issues with Logic that make its reliability less than stellar for professional work (don't argue with me on this point - the "Disk too Slow" errors on SSD's, the spotty AU validation, the runaway cores, the MASSIVE memory leaks...), and there is NO WORD FROM APPLE ABOUT IT.

They don't say a goddamn thing about anything, ever - it is telling that it took them so long to issue such a paltry press release about their plans for FCPX, after the public reacted INSANELY negatively to it. That attitude is fine for iWhatevers, but not for PRO equipment and software - in fact, they would sell significantly more systems if they had a roadmap, I'm pretty sure. Why do I say that? Because, even if they are bad about actually meeting goals (as such large companies inevitably are), AT LEAST WE'D KNOW THEY HAVE GOALS IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!

I have no faith at all in Apple as a Pro company anymore - even if they care about that market (which is far from obvious), their communications policy has put me off so badly that I am, well, pissed. I find it a tad ironic that this Reality TV company has jumped ship to AVID of all places, as well - they are actually WORSE than Apple about supporting their own products, especially at the low-to-upper-mid end of the market. Honestly, the $300 upgrade to PT10, with little in the way of added functionality and less in the way of added value, is just galling. The fact that they are letting RTAS die a slow death, yet not telling people about it, is also pretty horrible. By the way, Pro Tools is only the standard in larger studios, and not because it is BETTER than the other options - it is just what everyone KNOWS already (myself included), and is a hardware-software option known to be relatively stable. Myself and most of the engineer friends I have all despise the program, for the simple reason that it is outdated for all but the most pedestrian audio editing tasks - and TDM is becoming less and less necessary (and, ironically enough, wasn't even really necessary at most places that had it before - how many unused outboard comps, TC, Eventide, etc, do you think there are out there?).

I think ALL these companies (Ableton, Waves, NI, and several others are quite bad as well) need to get off their asses and tell us what is going on! Apple and Avid are just the worst offenders, not the only ones.

Oh, and I agree with whoever said that the trickle-down effect is very important - it certainly was for me, and for 90% of the people I know in my industry. In music, "Mac is better" (a falsehood, especially given the advances with ASIO and the languishing of CoreAudio), but that seems to be changing. If you think that the entire plethora of bedroom musicians and "producers" that use Macs aren't a large market, or more specifically if Apple's management thinks that, then god help them in 5 years. They're in the process of sowing their own failure, and are going to look so shocked when their loudest advocates (Content Creation Pros), who they've forsaken, drive their students and proteges and would-be successors away from the $$$ platform. It will be another 5 after that when the real effect is felt - when they've decided to drop "computers" entirely to be a consumer electronics company - because, "nobody buys computers anymore" - once again, leaving Content Creators to fend for themselves...

[/rant]
 
Great, so now Avid can be responsible for turning America's television into an utter toilet moving forward! Yay! Only the best for "reality" TV! :rolleyes:

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Great job Apple!! Next up: push the IT people and large companies out the door by discontinuing Mac OS X Server and the Mac Pro (not that they haven't ruined Mac OS X Server enough with Lion and they stopped selling Xserve). Then developers! And if fewer people are making apps for Apple's devices, the why would you buy an iPad? You don't buy it because you have money to burn and need extra weight to carry. You buy it because of the awesome apps that "advanced users" make. Apple shouldn't be going in this direction...

Something tells me that the people in charge of Apple know about 1000x more than you do about what the company "should" be doing. Assuming, of course, that you're not just John Sculley trolling Macrumors these days.... :p
 
If their workflow looks even half like what I think it does, I am surprised they held out so long.

The hint here is that its not just MC, but a full AVID solution. That means everything from PT edit bays to ISIS storage, MC editing, MAM management, DS ingest, AVID Motion CG, Symphony finishing, etc.

For the type of work they do, I would postulate that this really isn't an FCP vs AVID issue so much as an overall workflow issue.

Having very recently worked there on possibly one of the last shows to use FCP (and in an editorial support position) I can say that media management was a growing issue and their decision to move to Avid (IF it was mainly for the media management abilities) was absolutely the right move.

It bums me out because I love apple and my Mac Pro and want to see them do well, but even though I started on FCP, workin on Avid really was just so much nicer (though not interface wise! My, that's an ugly program).

And to the uninformed fellow above saying that Hollywood productions were going the way of the music industry, I'm afraid you're woefully misinformed on just what level of effort and expertise is required at so very many stages of the filmmaking progress to be anywhere close to correct. Feature films, and the industry around them, are not about to die. The means of distribution absolutely are! But that doesn't mean the experts are about to be replaced by the average person any time soon.

dennis
 
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Kaibelf said:
Great, so now Avid can be responsible for turning America's television into an utter toilet moving forward! Yay! Only the best for "reality" TV! :rolleyes:

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jackhdev said:
Great job Apple!! Next up: push the IT people and large companies out the door by discontinuing Mac OS X Server and the Mac Pro (not that they haven't ruined Mac OS X Server enough with Lion and they stopped selling Xserve). Then developers! And if fewer people are making apps for Apple's devices, the why would you buy an iPad? You don't buy it because you have money to burn and need extra weight to carry. You buy it because of the awesome apps that "advanced users" make. Apple shouldn't be going in this direction...

Something tells me that the people in charge of Apple know about 1000x more than you do about what the company "should" be doing. Assuming, of course, that you're not just John Sculley trolling Macrumors these days.... :p

I believe you meant continue turning... All that trash was invented and created using apple hardware and Final Cut Pro.
 
Spot on. IMO the last 18 months has shown that Apple no longer have a long term commitment to the Mac past consumer use.

I agree though I wouldn't say that it is the consumer user. I would say it is all end users -- the difference I am trying to make being Apple has made great strides, especially with iOS, to be positioned as the goto platform for users who want to use their consumer devices for basic business purposes, like email. Of course they are doing that by making iPhone the best phone to use on an Exchange network.
 
but even though I started on FCP, workin on Avid really was just so much nicer (though not interface wise! My, that's an ugly program).

As an Avid editor, it really amazes me how many independent editor/preditors won't give it a chance due to it's old interface (thankfully MC6 is moving the interface forward). They're really missing out on extremely productive workflows and decent media management. That along with turnkey solutions, excellent support and commitment to the industry is why Avid will continue to dominate in Hollywood. I would love to see some decent competition come along, but I can't see anyone coming along to build a robust enough end to end solution to compete with Avid. Especially now that Avid is reaching out to the community and really adding features that we can use. The independent work is likely to move over to Premiere, and unlikely to ever consider moving back once they experience After Effects integration.
 
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