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Really?

Bunim/Murray is big so I'm pretty shocked they or any company doing reality TV would even consider FCP. FCP's media management, sync & grouping capabilities, etc are clearly inferior to Avid's media management. Outside of reality tv, FCP is fine. That many post houses, in LA at least, are dumping FCP
is not exactly breaking news :)
 
Yeah, this will only accelerate. I'm a senior editor at one of the three major networks, and we're all joking about Final Cut X. We'll probably just go back to Avid, though Premiere is interesting.

What's funny is that we just switched to FCP two years ago. Massive, network-wide, corporation-wide switch. Ours is one megacorporation that won't be buying Mac again anytime soon.

Pennywise and pound-foolish of Apple to alienate it's most ardent users, I think. But then again, I just bought a Macbook Pro, so what does that say ;)
 
You guys are forgetting that Apple is in the hardware business, they just happen to have some great software. I suspect Apple wants to pass the torch to other companies when it comes to professional software.

yes, consumer mass-market hardware (high-volume); but here we are speaking about the pro market = low-volume but high-profile.
 
Apple sure know how to mess things up occasionally, they tried to reinvent the wheel and failed dismally, FCPX will die a death for sure. As much as they try and rescue it with extra "Pro" features they won't convince existing Pro's to switch to FCPX its too much of a half job. Same with Logic Pro, there are so many bugs and half finished features, Pro Tools rules in nearly every major studio. As a Logic & FCP user I wish it wasn't the case. But it seems they are are always trying to get away with something by flashy features with no substantial depth. But maybe they are settling with being a consumer manufacturer now and leaving the pro's..
 
When it comes down to it, Apple had a good run with FCP and Logic, but the reality is that Avid and Protools has and will continue to be the gold standard..

ProTools is dying fast. They are so terribly behind everybody else. No wonder since their codebase still comes partially from the 80's. Sure, the markets will turn slowly, but the change is well on it's way. And this comes from a professional audio engineer.
 
ProTools is dying fast. They are so terribly behind everybody else. No wonder since their codebase still comes partially from the 80's. Sure, the markets will turn slowly, but the change is well on it's way. And this comes from a professional audio engineer.

How about the new version? I thought they'd just completely re-architected and gone floating point?
 
You assume based on the lack of folks jumping up to say that they have but in honesty, how many editors talk about what they use. Few. So who is to know what they are using or not. Or if they aren't using FCPX why? Perhaps they don't like it, perhaps they aren't using it for money projects because they are still learning it and don't want to hold up a deadline while they do this so they are finishing with whatever they were using before.

It was an honest question - I was wondering if there have been any stories on high-profile people using FCP X. Then I assumed, based on my experiences with it, that there probably wasn't many of them if so.

And yes, people may of course use it even if there are no stories on it. Still, O assume we'll hear about it if people start using it. I don't think that will happen in quite some time, though.

Looking forward to the big update with multicam etc., it will be interesting to see how long it takes them to get close to what FCP was functionally.
 
Missing the point.

Sure, that comment was intended to sting, but I think Apple has a pretty good sense of direction most of the time. The changes they're making like FCPX and a stronger consumer-slant on things isn't some random whim of Apple management.

They're probably looking at the big picture and the long-haul and asking a lot of tough questions about what sustains the company best -- and we're seeing their conclusions.

I know the "pros" out there never like comments like this, but I'm going to say it anyway: Some of you guys are slowly becoming dinosaurs. What Apple realizes is we're headed for a future where traditional media is losing relevancy. (EG. You can be a big-shot video producer or editor for a television network like MTV and right now, that still means something. But you know what? It means less than it did a decade ago, when everyone expected to watch a music video on TV to go with every new song they heard and liked. It will mean less still in another decade, when cable and satellite television are dead concepts, and the public simply gets a single high-speed internet connection into their home that serves all purposes. Costs will keep decreasing on "pro quality" video recording equipment, just like they did for audio recording, and people will produce their OWN high quality material that once required studios and specialists.)

In THAT future, you know who has the best business model? It's the company that provided tools that hobbyists can tinker with in their basement and get good, professional results with. I'm not saying some won't go on to become a new generation of "video professionals", but they're likely to use workflows more like what FCPX offers (assuming the product matures over the years too, which it should if it's not abandoned).

You're half right, but half wrong too.
I agree that the industry is changing and that Apple might have a head start on some in regards to this, however....and this is the big one....it hasn't changed that much!
Despite the downloads, You Tube and bigger computer screens etc etc, most of us still watch TV programmes on our TV's and in the age of HD and Blu Ray, we actually expect better images to view on it too. If TV is to survive against the onslaught of the internet it needs to raise its game - not lower it, so professional filming, directing and editing becomes more important than ever.
To give an analogy you could get sound cards for £30 on a PC when they were £150 on a Mac and yet it was really the Mac that forged ahead on the audio scene. This was because the Mac was an 'aspirational' product - something people yearned to use even when they were 'tinkering' on another platform.
Tinkering is fine, but it will be the aspirational users who succeed and they will aspire to own and use better equipment than they start off with.
if the Mac is seen as a 'toy' for 'tinkering' then that's what it will become and how many people aspire to own 'toys'?
It's imperative that Apple maintains its 'pro' status. Mercedes might sell more A class than anything else in its range, but it's because of it's S Class that everyone wants to buy them - a lesson Apple needs to learn quick!
 
As someone who not only fully supports FCP-X, but also believes it is a fantastic program, this announcement doesn't phase me whatsoever.

If their workflow looks even half like what I think it does, I am surprised they held out so long.

The hint here is that its not just MC, but a full AVID solution. That means everything from PT edit bays to ISIS storage, MC editing, MAM management, DS ingest, AVID Motion CG, Symphony finishing, etc.

For the type of work they do, I would postulate that this really isn't an FCP vs AVID issue so much as an overall workflow issue.

One question, though. And I'm asking as a non-video-professional who is genuinely curious about the software/system...

As a workflow issue, would the (now discontinued) combination of Final Cut Studio+Server, XServe, XSan have been a comparable option?
If not, then I guess this would have been a natural sort of progression anyway in moving a complete workflow from one company's product to another.

If it had been viable, though, then for the production houses that do this sort of work Apple is basically pushing them to the competition. And at that point, although these options still work on Mac hardware, surely it also adds a potential loss of several hundred hardware purchases?

And say what you will about Reality TV. Personally I dislike it, but I guess that it still requires a lot of the same processes and techniques used in making a film or documentary.
Seriously, I've seen enough shows to know that they sift through what must be hours of footage to tell a version of events that suits the "story" they are trying to tell. There may not be the "mass exodus" of users that some were predicting, but I also doubt this will be the last production house to do so.
 
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Even if the pro market for apple isnt as lucrative as the consumer market they would be naive to drop it as the consumers buy apple with the thought of having "pro" computer equipment at a "reasonable" price. If its not thought as "pro" equipment anymor will the price still be thought as "reasonable?"
 
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Even if the pro market for apple isnt as lucrative as the consumer market they would be naive to drop it as the consumers buy apple with the thought of having "pro" computer equipment at a "reasonable" price. If its not thought as "pro" equipment anymor will the price still be thought as "reasonable?"

I honestly think consumers buy devices that are tailored to their needs and that they are mostly motivated by what devices their friends own. IMHO the above quote is a fairy tale that pros like to tell themselves but have little foundation in fact.

Apple is primarily a consumer company. Always has been. For a long time consumers either didn't know about Apple or thought the products were crap while the company had some succes in the content creation business. That let people in this business to believe that Apple was a content creation business oriented company. It's not.
 
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Very sad. I hope they rethink some of their software plans and stop thinking like an electronic toy company.
 
FCP7 Still Works

Without actually trying it myself (I'm a hobbyist, not a professional) I have done a lot of research into FCPX because my 14 year old son is developing an interest in filmmaking and I'd like to steer him to the best tools for his development. I have FCE and have urged him to take a look at it, but he's still favoring iMovie. The FCE/FCP apps still work in Lion, and will work for many years to come (I know filmmakers who are still using FCP 3).

In my research I discovered that Apple wanted to make FCP 64 bit, but felt it could not deliver the quality product it wanted without re-writing the app. As Apple has so often done, in deciding to re-cast a product it explored how the product will be best used, not necessarily what existing/legacy customers wanted from the product. Thus, FCPX. My son watched a series of tutorials on the product on YouTube and is now excited to use it. We'll probably buy it sometime later this year. As far as the supposedly premature release of the product, Steve Jobs was famous for proclaiming "great artists ship." If you wait for the product to be perfect, you may be tinkering forever. (I feel the same way about Siri. Heavily flawed, but incredibly useful)

I believe that at some point, professionals will move to FCP X. Walter Murch has done a series of talks/lectures/interviews about the app and has some interesting things to say both pro and con. Many professionals, once they set out to actually use the software, discover that most of the features they want/use in FCP7 are still in FCPX, however differently placed/presented.
 

No. Still using the last version of Final Cut Studio. As a matter of fact, I'm taking over as Creative Director for a new company on Monday and when they asked me what version I wanted, I asked for that version.

-F.
 
No. Still using the last version of Final Cut Studio. As a matter of fact, I'm taking over as Creative Director for a new company on Monday and when they asked me what version I wanted, I asked for that version.

Thanks for your response.

The reason I asked is that I wondered whether you were voicing your support for Apple based on successful use of FCP X in a production environment. It would seem that you are not.

It strikes me that your enthusiastic words about FCP are a bit misplaced, given that you yourself aren't willing to use the new version for your own work.
 
Explain why AAPL was up 2.21 yesterday with the news? Apple and it's investors don't care.
 
Explain why AAPL was up 2.21 yesterday with the news? Apple and it's investors don't care.

Easy - Apple and the investors don't care about the pro market. Apple is king of the mouth-breathing consumer, and investors love it.
 
Some Thoughts

In the days of yore, Apple did not have the cash cow of the iPod, iPhone and iPad to boost its sales figures. Apple needed to sell products. Those products were Macs mostly. To do that they used their strengths if controlling the hardware, software and OS.

Buy buying the foundation apps that led to iTunes, FCP, Logic, etc. Apple strategically set themselves up to make really good value for the customer.

At the time, video editing suites were clumsy and expensive and prone to obscure technical and networking issues, etc. Along come a powerful digital (the new emerging medium) package that in relative terms was cheap, fast and had some exciting new features. It took off, and sold many a Mac Pro.

In time, they developed a rather nice suite of Pro software packages. And sold a modest quantity of Pro Macs. Then came the iDevice phenomemen and the app store.

For a business, they look at strategies like repeat sales, halo effects, product lifecycles, etc.

How often did a studio replace mac Pros and software? Every 2 - 3 years? What were the sales of these purchases? What were the profit margins? Now look at the iDevice family. Repalced/upgraded oftn, many times annually. Huge halo effect with app store and music store, high margins.

From a pure business resource and startegy viewpoint, Apple put resoruces towards the market (consumers) and the products (iDevices) that made them money.

The old strategy sold Macs but was a small portion of averall sales.

Look at the most recent sales. Mostly laptops and iMacs for the hardware side and the iDevices. The Mac Pro is withering on the vine.

Personally I am sad that the Pro is marginalized. I think it could be an awesoem product and I would love for a mid level tower, slots for expansion, updated graphics cards, etc. but iMac proce range. But I am fairly sure that product is not a market space Apple wants to be in.

With the Mac Pro being a moderate option and not coming out with cutting edge updates, it can be inferred that the Apple stratgy is to not invest much R&D into this market.

Jumping back to the Pro software, Appel had to ditch some legacy code and bagage to make the move to Intel, 64 bit, Lion, etc. They rewrote FCP into FCP X. For some its great. For others, not so much. Business wise for Apple, the dollars and cents of the lost sales and platform switchers is barely a blip. At this point they still sell Mac Pros and FCP X, etc. and will do so until sales become low enough to abandon the product lines.

Perhaps they ar cooking up updates in the labs at Apple HQ. perhaps just a programmer and a few interns maintain the code. I don't know. But it seems safe to say the priority of Apple is not these Pro apps at this time.

We can all be sad that Apple's business decisions have left us with a less than desirable product, but the reality is that Apple will do as a company what it feels is best. If they abandon small segments, then they have every right to.

We can hope an enterprising third party will rise to the challenge and fill the void. Fortunately there are alternatives for professionals that use these systems. None may be ideal or what they wanted, but no one will starve for lack of tools.

Steve and Apple seem to have a road map to the future. We may happily buy into their vision, or not, time will tell. Perhaps the legacy of pro machines and editing software was not part of that vision. But I am confident if the Mac Pros were flying off the shelves, then it would be a product that Apple paid more attention to. That said if they paid more attention to it, perhaps they would fly off the shelves. Chicken or the egg.
 
When it comes down to it, Apple had a good run with FCP and Logic, but the reality is that Avid and Protools has and will continue to be the gold standard..

People keep lumping Logic in with FC but the two apps couldn't be more different. FCX was totally botched, but Apple had a 64 bit version of Logic almost two years ago.

And look at the Avid audio forums, Apple just lowered the price on Logic but after less than a year since the last update, the next Pro Tools update costs $999. And this is a company that charges an extra two thousand dollars to add functionality like surround mixing.

On top of that, they are dumping all their TDM hardware and both of their existing plugin formats for all new stuff. Yeah, THAT will be a fun migration.

PT users are livid right now, many are skipping the PT10 update and I'm sure many will bail for other software. Frankly Avid's recent audio moves smack of desperation, and if Apple hadn't just handed them a bunch of new video customers on a platter I wouldn't be that optimistic about them even staying in business.


Something tells me that the people in charge of Apple know about 1000x more than you do about what the company "should" be doing.

You mean the guys who decided to release an iPod with no buttons, mobile me, ping? No question that their overall track record has been great, but they've still given many examples that they can make bonehead moves with individual products.

How about the new version? I thought they'd just completely re-architected and gone floating point?

Nope, at LEAST a year before there's a 64 bit version and it will require dumping all plugins and all but the newest hardware. For frak's sake, they STILL can't do a bounce faster than real time.
 
I mean...really though? You think that professionals switching to Avid is somehow going to slow growth of iOS devices and hurt Apple's bottom line?

Apple's core market is the consumer, not the professional. The consumer market is orders of magnitude more profitable and ripe for disruption, and unfortunately Apple knows where it's success in the past half decade has come from (hint: not Mac Pros and FCP licenses).

They're losing their core, and trying to spread out too thin.

I think the point is that Apple has decided to CHANGE their core, signalled first with the change of name from Apple Computer to just Apple and over time as they've slowly discontinued all the "pro" stuff. Apple has clearly discovered that consumer toys are more profitable than professional computing and IT.

As far as video editing is concerned, look at YouTube: tons and tons of kids posting vlogs and home-made videos. Those kids want video editing software too. When they outgrow iMovie, they'll want to spend a bit of money on something a little bit more substantial. Label something "Pro" and charge a couple hundred bucks, and they'll buy it, thinking "look at me, I'm using professional software now!" That's the market Apple is going after.
 
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Thank you Bunim/Murray for giving us reality tv. Thank you for making the last generation of television viewers even more vacuous than they have ever been.

Thank you MacRumors for giving a name to our real enemy. There is a special spot in hell reserved for whoever the turd-stains Bunim and Murray might be. And the people who work for them, pay their bills, air their shows, watch their show, etc. etc.

On a more serious note, I am willing to bet that 99% of the editors making actual music videos (not for MTV anymore sadly) use, and will continue to use FCP in whatever iteration that might come along.

I'm surprised the wheels on the F*&k FCPX bandwagon haven't fallen off yet.
 
As a professional editor this is hardly a surprise. It is surprising, however, that it happened so soon.

For those that bash reality TV - it's true that it lacks the higher sophistications of "art" - whatever definition that might be. However, from an editing standpoint reality TV is among the most influential genres for redefining post-production, editing, and general workflow. Those cameras hardly ever stop, and stories are crafted "at the end" rather than at the beginning of the process. This necessitates a whole slew of technological needs: better storage, efficient logging, more complex delegation of editing tasks, greater synergy among larger groups of editors, and ultimately a larger post-production back-end from workers, computers, to software. This is why it's not surprising to see reality TV companies being amongst the first to drop Apple.

Just a note about the earlier "big media is becoming irrelevant" postings: Completely untrue. Productions are shooting MORE and doing MORE than before. Cheaper technology has not lowered the baseline for getting a show on TV, it simply increases the demand accordingly for what a TV budget should output.
 
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