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"What about Apple talking to Intel? It’s a diversion. It’s to show the world (of chip makers) that Cupertino has choices. It’s to get some leverage with IBM.

It’s also a smokescreen of sorts.

Apple really wants to buy Freescale.

Think about it. Not only would they have complete and full access to the chip designing and building process, they’d begin to take back some of their own destinty and put it in Apple brochures (and products), where it belongs.

Freescale is just getting some traction in the marketplace (over the past year revenue is up, profits are up, stock price is up) so the time for a bold move, an acquisition by Apple, is now."

-mac360
 
I'm pretty stupid about this stuff so I'll post in the form of a question.

is it possible that Apple just contracts intel to make them a compatible chip rather than all this bruhaha about recompiling everything and soforth?
 
ropbo said:
That's my situation. I'm planning on buying a Powermac Dual G5 2.7 and Final Cut Studio by the end of the year ...

I am also thinking of a new PowerMac, for doing Cocoa development, and running an EyeTV 500. I don't know if this would break my plans. This would be my next big jump up from my G3s, and I was planning that new computer would keep me current for some time to come.
 
Harder to market.

Right now Apple markets their computers on 2 things. Number One: OSX Tiger and the Applications that come with it and Number Two: The PowerPC, Velocity Engine (Alti-Vec), and fast (in the case of the G5) FSB speeds.

When Apple switches to x86 they will then be offering EXACTLY the same package you can get across the street, EXCEPT theirs runs OSX. That is it. Apple can't post benchmarks (even if they are a little biased) because it won't matter anymore. The discussion we have enjoyed for years on here will come down to nothing more then a Windows v. OSX discussion.

People can argue for days and days until they are blue whether PowerPC or x86 is the better more advanced system. But when Apple goes with x86 it is nothing more then a fancy PC running OSX.

In fact, how long will it take someone to make an generic x86 PC run an x86 Mac OS? Days if that.

Last do you think people will pay more for a computer that the only difference is the OS, all the guts are the same. Like I said, this has nothing to do about the performance, more about marketing. If all you are building is a copy of a Dell can you really charge what Apple charges now for it? Maybe Macs will come way down in price once they are nothing more then a beige box running OSX. I guess we will have to see.

I CANT wait until they decide to get rid of the graphics card altogether and go with the "integrated Intel graphics" on the Mac Mini and the iBook, just imagine what the people will say that used to complain about the poor graphics cards Apple put in these computers.

It is kind of sad to think that most of our discussions that we have on Macrumors won't even matter in a couple of years.
 
kakophony said:
Hey guys:

I bring you what "my sources" have just confirmed me:

Mr. Steve Jobs WILL be announcing on Monday an alliance with Intel and ditch IBM in two years time. Reason: Intel has offered Apple their brand new Pentium-D (dual core), and preliminary performance tests using QuickTransit have been successful enough to grant the move.

Mac OS X will run on these machines via JITcompiling. The processor-emulation will pay a penalty of around 15% of processing power, but even after that the performance will be superior to the current PowerPC single Macintosh.

This fairly reliable source (I will not say Intel engineer because I don't want to put her in trouble - I just said too much with that "her") reported that "the first joint-venture that Apple & Intel will make will be a laptop micro-processor". Specs of the microprocessor will be:

Intel Pentium D 820 @ 2.8GHz (Dual-Core) 800MHz FSB

which she told me is fairly priced and may be part of the new iBook line. It is expected that the Powerbook line will recieve a Pentium D 840 by next year (3.2 GHz Dual Core), plus the PowerMac line will see a Pentium Extreme Edition 840 with Hyperthreading (starting at 3.2GHz).

This is what she told me. She also said that performance tests using the 820 model were pretty successful and JIT QuickTransit technology made it possible to blow out of the water the current iBook models, even emulating Mac OS X.

I hope it is interesting to you.

P.S. I am a regular user of this forums, but she personally asked me to create a fresh and clean account just to post this message. She doesn't want any chances to get "caught" in leaking this. Obviously, she might even not be a "she". ;) I hope you understand. :)

Yeah, not a single part of that makes sense. Sorry, but I'm not going to bite.

Intel dual core chips in the consumer grade iBook first? LOL. Wow. This person set you up.
 
Frobozz said:
Yeah, not a single part of that makes sense. Sorry, but I'm not going to bite.

Intel dual core chips in the consumer grade iBook first? LOL. Wow. This person set you up.

I just thik he just made it up. :)
 
kakophony said:
Hey guys:

I bring you what "my sources" have just confirmed me:

Mr. Steve Jobs WILL be announcing on Monday an alliance with Intel and ditch IBM in two years time. Reason: Intel has offered Apple their brand new Pentium-D (dual core), and preliminary performance tests using QuickTransit have been successful enough to grant the move.

Mac OS X will run on these machines via JITcompiling. The processor-emulation will pay a penalty of around 15% of processing power, but even after that the performance will be superior to the current PowerPC single Macintosh.

This fairly reliable source (I will not say Intel engineer because I don't want to put her in trouble - I just said too much with that "her") reported that "the first joint-venture that Apple & Intel will make will be a laptop micro-processor". Specs of the microprocessor will be:

Intel Pentium D 820 @ 2.8GHz (Dual-Core) 800MHz FSB

which she told me is fairly priced and may be part of the new iBook line. It is expected that the Powerbook line will recieve a Pentium D 840 by next year (3.2 GHz Dual Core), plus the PowerMac line will see a Pentium Extreme Edition 840 with Hyperthreading (starting at 3.2GHz).

This is what she told me. She also said that performance tests using the 820 model were pretty successful and JIT QuickTransit technology made it possible to blow out of the water the current iBook models, even emulating Mac OS X.

I hope it is interesting to you.

P.S. I am a regular user of this forums, but she personally asked me to create a fresh and clean account just to post this message. She doesn't want any chances to get "caught" in leaking this. Obviously, she might even not be a "she". I hope you understand.

Pure, complete-and utter BS. The Pentium dual core chips would be absolutely unfeasible in a notebook in anything like their current state - they dissipate far too much heat. Even conventional "mobile" P4 chips are pushing the boundaries of chunky, noisy desktop replacement machines. The only feasible Intel x86 chip to go in a notebook with a similar from factor to any Apple are producing now would be the Pentium-M.
 
:(

Yeah, that does sound unlikely... but let's not forget that the iBook line revamp is long overdue, and that CNET pointed out that consumer products would go first. Maybe the P-D is fast enough now for an iBook, but not for the pro-line. Anybody knows about that Quicktransit thing?
 
crpchristian said:
The reason this would make Jobs seem like he's full of crap is, check out these numbers basically saying IBM PPC is dominating anything Intel is putting out

http://www.apple.com/powermac/performance/

So if this were true it really is saying "hey, about a month ago we put our new machines we want you to buy and helped convinced you bay putting up these numbers saying how much faster our Procs are compared to others (amd/Intel). But actually, we are chaning our minds and going with these companies which we have stated for years are making 'slower' procs" (and since nothing happens overnight in this buisness, we obviouslly new about this well before we were making some of these claims)

IF...IF its true, it will make jobs/apple seem like big fat liars with pants constantly on fire. The only way out is if it doesn't require major changes in software and is wayyyy faster than what we have now.


ps. I wonder how loud the boos will be if this is true and gets announced on monday


hahaha!
has steve Jobs ever been booed during a keynote??
That will be fun to watch! We are all in for a laugh on Monday :D

ps. too bad the WWDC is not in London or i would be the one at the back throwing tomatos! :p
 
jiggie2g said:
1. Intel is not nor ever will make some stupid PPC chip it goes against everything Intel stands for. Thats like Dell shipping OSX boxes(scary :confused: ). they already have multiple road maps that go into 2007. can't say that about IBM.

Road Maps mean nothing. MS has road maps into the future and they can't even meet them. RM's are nice to show a general guideline where you are going, but influence few decisions. I know we never look at them when we buy servers. We tend to buy what the vendor reccomends/requires for their product. On the PC side, desktops are a commodity, so it doesn't matter.

2. 2006 is going to be a huge year for the Pentium M(yonah) and Pentium D as both will be low cost dual core solutions. Both will get DDR2 667-DDR2 800. Intel will have it's 802.11n chipset ready and USB 3.0. Not to mention ATI Crossfire + Nvidia SLI 2.

Peee-M is so overrated, it's not funny. I've used them and am, to say the least underwhelmed. They run relatively cool but offer little/no performance increases in day to day work.

It will get spanked by AMD's offerings, just like all the other Intel chips do today.

3. Frankly I believe 100% that IBM is getting 2nd thoughts about it's Apple partner ship ...c'mon really whats in it for IBM. Apple gets saved and IBM gets chump change back for it's multi-billion dollor investment in the PPC970. Apple simply doesn't sell the volume that is required for IBM to consider it worth wild not when u got Sony , M$ and Nintendo trowing money at them for chips.

What's in this for Intel too? Nothing much I can see - Apple has the same problem with Intel that they do with IBM. AMD would make much more sense as it would be a relatively huge increase for them.

4.A Dual boot WIndos OSX machine would Rule. If Apple want to capitalize on M$ delays with Longhorn they better do it ASAP b4 M$ gets back on its feet or Linux becomes a real threat. They will never get a better chance then now. I hear Longhorn may not even ship till Spring 2007 now.

You're forgetting M$'s ace in the hole - Office. If this were to happen watch:
1) Office for Mac disappear
2) Office for PC having a "service Pack" that disables the ability to run on Apple's hardware (They did this before with Windows on DR-DOS.)

We won't even discuss how LongDump could be made to cripple Apple's machines.

Most of this was tried with BeOS a couple years ago with 1 vendor (Toshiba, IIRC) producing dual boot laptops. On first boot, you could pick to load either Be or Win. MS found out and yanked their OEM license for Windows. BeOS suddenly disappeared.

5. Why Intel Over AMD ? Simple from a fanboys perspective Intel is on the ropes but from a busines stand point they still own over 87% of the CPU market. They have Unlimited Manufaturing resources , they have the Perfect Mobile CPU and a cheap Dual Core Solution. A company like AMD is simple not big enough to Supply Apple at the rediculious rate Jobs will demand plus supply the rest of the Industry. Look at Dell , Dell wants shiny new Pentium whatever , Intel sends it to them Limited quantity or not ASAP , no questions asked .. that's Chipzilla. They do it cuz they can. Try that with IBM or AMD. Intel Spent over 2 billion dollors on just marketing the Pentium 4 and P-M. While AMD only had 200million to blow why spend all that money ,cuz they can. thats why Apple chose Intel.

But AMD's CPU's are generally cheaper, more reliable, and FASTER than Intel. It's been going on for years. Not to mention, Intel is the king of Paper Launches. Look at the Pee4 Emergency Edition - launch it on paper, ship it a couple months later.

No resources are unlimited and Intel has been had its own yeild issues in the past along with the rest of the industry.

A partnership with AMD would make the most sense - the best chips, the best performance and lower cost.

6. How long do u think Intel is gonna stay down and let AMD pound them. this crap heppened b4 with the PIII , it was dying and getting killed by original T-Bird Athlon. Then Bam comes the P4 and it's bye bye Athlon and Athlon XP.

Have you been on Earth long? The Athlon killed the P3 and P4 back in the day. The P4's launch was a joke as it even got spanked by a P3. In recent iterations, the P4 has been better, but it still has a hard time keeping pace with the Athlons and AMD 64's. That's a fact.

On the Server side, the Opteron has been a great contender and has spanked Xeons at many things, especially things like database serving.

Intel has few compelling and fast chips - the Peee-M is a decent design (based off the P3 core) - Apple would be better served by using AMD. Intel never really made compelling chips - AMD was always right there building them faster and cheaper -

AMD 486's were faster than Intel 486s
K5 was faster than Pentium (except floating point)
K6/k62 was faster than P2 (except floating point, helped by 3D-NOW!)
Athlon spanked P3/P4 hard
Opteron spanks Xeon

I could go on and on - Intel hasn't even been in the game as long as some of the other players - TI, IIRC made the first Microprocessor, AMD has been around as long as (if not longer than) Intel (and fabbed early 8088/8086's for Intel in the beginning), IBM has been doing this forever, etc.

Nice try, though. I suggest reading up on some computer history.
 
kakophony said:
Mac OS X will run on these machines via JITcompiling. The processor-emulation will pay a penalty of around 15% of processing power, but even after that the performance will be superior to the current PowerPC single Macintosh.

Hum, so that means that if you run Linux or any BSD flavor on these "machines", it would be 15% faster than if u run Mac OS X ?

lol
 
wait a minute...

Assume that the transition is true.
Assume that we are talking about x86.

The chip is apparently going in the consumer Macs in 2006 and then later into pro Macs in 2007.
Wouldn't that kill ALL sales of Macs until the new chips arrived?
Could Apple really survive no Mac sales for two years?
Who would buy a very expensive Mac after two years of no sales?

I don't see the logic... I just don't see it :confused:

What would prevent Intel from starting to manufacture PPC's?
All the console makers are going PPC. This must have been known in the Intel camp for years. Hence they should have had enough time to design/manufacture a PPC.
I doubt that Intel would sit around and do nothing.

However, if the x86 rumor is true, it might be the end of Mac... :(
 
Update:


"CNET on Friday reported that Apple would announce the transition plan June 6. It reported that Apple would move lower-end computers such as the Mac Mini to Intel chips in mid-2006 and higher-end models such as the Power Mac in mid-2007. An industry executive familiar with the matter, contacted Saturday, verified that schedule."

Source: The Wall Street Journal - http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB111791696757050994,00.html?mod=rss_whats_news_technology (paid subscription required)
 
OMG I am just so damn excited/nervious!!! This could be the best Monday of my life or my worst i just want this to be clarified!!!!!!! Comon Jobs dont let us down!

I just thought of this... what if the hold up in apples inventory is becuase apple is not going to by anymore chips form IBM??? but that wouldn't be why there is such a big inventory of iPods.
 
gedto said:
Update:
"CNET on Friday reported that Apple would announce the transition plan June 6. It reported that Apple would move lower-end computers such as the Mac Mini to Intel chips in mid-2006 and higher-end models such as the Power Mac in mid-2007. An industry executive familiar with the matter, contacted Saturday, verified that schedule."
Source: The Wall Street Journal - http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB111791696757050994,00.html?mod=rss_whats_news_technology (paid subscription required)
Wait! Does that mean that the WSJ is confirming the C|Net story because they contacted an industry executive?

Holy cow. I take that as significant because I trust the WSJ to do their fact-checking and use reliable sources.
 
weldon said:
Wait! Does that mean that the WSJ is confirming the C|Net story because they contacted an industry executive?

Holy cow. I take that as significant because I trust the WSJ to do their fact-checking and use reliable sources.
I can't believe we're going to have "Intel Inside" on our Macs from now on. I'm not happy about this.
 
ewinemiller said:
I'm not saying the Pentium D is energy efficient, but I suspect your 310 watts at full output is a bit of an exaggeration seeing as the Dell Precision 380 only comes with a 375 watt powersupply. With only 65 watts left, you'd be lucky to run a stick of ram, a single HD, single optical, and maybe a 4 year old video card. Yeah, the Intel stuff is a pig for power consumption, but not that bad.

You've obviously never seen how Dell cuts corners. I've seen them ship P4's (early models that sucked power) with 250 watt power supplies. How it ended up in my shop was that the user added a CD Burner (Hard drive + CD-ROM + Burner) and toasted the power supply.

Dell loves to cut corners on stuff like this.
 
...so the "new" chips would go into the consumer products in 2006 and into the proline 2007. Wouldnt that mean the iBook becomming much faster than the PB. The eMac faster than the iMac....

the only reason to get new chips would be if they are faster... Since the diff between iBook and PM is very very small now how could you put a faster chip into an iBook without killing off all PB sales?
 
That P-D story is also being reported at AppleNova forums... but I don't buy it either.

Maybe a stripped-down version, maybe P-M... not yet dual core iBook.
 
Doctor Q said:
I understand your point but can't believe that this would be economically sensible from Intel's point of view. Apple would not have a lion's share of their market and somebody has to cover all those costs.

It could make cost sense to Intel if they wanted to be able to offer compatible(close) chips for next nextgen game boxes (PS4, xBox3, etc...)

You start with a new or licensed/toll-produced design for a small client (Apple) and ramp up to be able to compete w/ IBM 2-3 yrs out...

Makes a hell of allot more sense to me than Mac-> x86...


shrug.
 
blumie607 said:
Is it just me, or is there something wrong here? Didn't Apple get most of the PPC processors from Motorola (now Freescale)? Wasn't the G5 the first chip that was from IBM?

If that is true, then maybe it partially discredits the source. CNET always likes trying to find "iPod killers" and the like so maybe they are just having a little fun. Well, I guess we'll all have to wait 2-3 more days to find out from el Steve.

Apple has been using IBM processors since 1994 .... go open up a Power Mac 6100 and you will find an IBM PPC 601. My iBook uses an IBM G3.

And the G5 is not IBM's first processor. They have been in the processor game for some time now ... why I even think that I have an IBM 486sx floating around somewhere.
 
"Logic" in Announcing Early

Dr.Gargoyle said:
Assume that the transition is true.
Assume that we are talking about x86.

The chip is apparently going in the consumer Macs in 2006 and then later into pro Macs in 2007.
Wouldn't that kill ALL sales of Macs until the new chips arrived?
Could Apple really survive no Mac sales for two years?
Who would buy a very expensive Mac after two years of no sales?

I don't see the logic... I just don't see it :confused:

What would prevent Intel from starting to manufacture PPC's?
All the console makers are going PPC. This must have been known in the Intel camp for years. Hence they should have had enough time to design/manufacture a PPC.
I doubt that Intel would sit around and do nothing.

However, if the x86 rumor is true, it might be the end of Mac... :(

If the rumor is true (and with the WSJ confirming it, it seems more likely), then Apple can't help announcing it this early. There's a reason it's being announced at WWDC--the World Wide Developer's Conference. Each and every one of us Mac developers have to recompile our Mac apps for Intel, or face sub-par performance when Intel Macs are released (presumably with some kind of PPC backwards compatibility).

If Apple just announced a switch to x86 and shipped it the next day--like they usually do with other products--developers would jump ship, massively. It's not going to be cheap to recompile all these apps as it is, with a year's notice.

Personally, however, I don't believe a x86 jump is going to happen; I'm a fan of the theory that Apple will simply contract Intel to produce more advanced PPC 970s. I've heard that Apple has the right to do so if IBM doesn't live up to its contractual obligations--which allegedly it hasn't.

Finally, x86 or not, this is certainly not the "end of the Mac". You can bet anything that Mac OS X will never run on any PC. It will require Mac ROM on a Mac motherboard, with checks up and down a million ways to make sure you aren't running it on a regular PC. Nothing will change except the endianness of the chip inside.
 
Dr.Gargoyle said:
...so the "new" chips would go into the consumer products in 2006 and into the proline 2007. Wouldnt that mean the iBook becomming much faster than the PB. The eMac faster than the iMac....

the only reason to get new chips would be if they are faster... Since the diff between iBook and PM is very very small now how could you put a faster chip into an iBook without killing off all PB sales?
Because there will be less apps that will run on the Intel chips at first. Prosumers will still need all apps so they'll need the most lead time for recompiling software to run on the new Intel cores.
 
at first i was like almost everyone else - i thought "oh no i'm not using any hardware with a crappy Intel chip running everything..."

but really as long as OS X stays how it is, and we get faster speeds i couldn't care really who's making the chips.
 
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