sfhc21 said:
cheaper prices? if someone can't afford a dollar a song or 9.99 for a cd then they shouldn't be wasting $ on music.
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RealNetworks Slashes Song Prices
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cheaper prices? if someone can't afford a dollar a song or 9.99 for a cd then they shouldn't be wasting $ on music.
wrldwzrd89 said:
oh no! then they'll have 8 customers!
yeah, rat bastards. not only are they taking an obvious loss to hype up their site, but they've built this BS "grassroots" 'free your music' campaign.
instead of innovating and coming up w/ a great products of their own, they've chosen to spend their time leeching off the popularity and undermining the security of Apple's products.
if they're actually taking a hit on each song sold w/ the hopes of sustained sales later, i hope a ton of people take advantage of the 1/2 off sale. then i'll laugh when we watch Apple seal that hole and all those customers swamp Real w/ irate emails when their music no longer works.
sfhc21 said:
if i am correct, it was not Apple's idea to price the songs as they are now. for Apple to lower their prices, the music companies must allow the reduction. Apple only wants to sell iPods. to sell iPods they need a medium where people can easily download music legally (iTMS) and encourage people to buy an iPod. i think, if there was a music store, which was easy to use and uses aac, then Apple would have partnered with them.
garybUK said:
I don't think the quality's going up anytime soon - Apple's agreements with the muic labels will see to that. Plus, any increase in quality will make the music store less accessible to dial-up users...didn't consider that, now, did you?
There's a good number of people who consider any software by real a kind of virus. I'm speaking only from past experience, but I regret every installation I've ever done of that software.
What makes them think I'm going to buy music from a company like that, cuz it costs fifty cents less.
What makes them think I'm going to buy music from a company like that, cuz it costs fifty cents less.
Why is Real bad?
Someone explain to me why everyone thinks Real is evil for doing this? To me, anything that gives ME more control over MY music is a good thing. I personally won't go give into a DRM format until it is open and free (as in freedom).
Proprietary formats SUCK for the customer. That's one of the biggest beefs against Microsoft. Real's products suck, that's not in dispute. But having Apple keep its format closed is a terrible thing for us, the consumer, and I'm confused by the support of it I see on these forums.
Someone explain to me why everyone thinks Real is evil for doing this? To me, anything that gives ME more control over MY music is a good thing. I personally won't go give into a DRM format until it is open and free (as in freedom).
Proprietary formats SUCK for the customer. That's one of the biggest beefs against Microsoft. Real's products suck, that's not in dispute. But having Apple keep its format closed is a terrible thing for us, the consumer, and I'm confused by the support of it I see on these forums.
What I dislike about Real
As long as I can remember, Real makes very lousy software. Real player for Mac sucks and their streaming technology also sucks. (I don't know how Real does on a PC. Oh yeah, Windows Media Format streaming also sucks.) I mean, if I want to see a Real video on the net, it is always buffering... and buffering... plays the video for a while and suddenly stops streaming half way. Windows Media does this also. I have never ever had any real problems with QuickTime. It always seems to run really smooth.
Anyway, the idea of choice isn't bad, but Real hasn't done anything for consumers in the past years. If they want to portray themselves as saints, then they should give us (PC and Mac users) something that will change our world. For now, all that Real brings is crap. This is why so many people dislike Real. Why aren't there more companies out there that don't make crap?
So, my point is:
Freedom of choice=good
No DRM=better
Real=crap
As long as I can remember, Real makes very lousy software. Real player for Mac sucks and their streaming technology also sucks. (I don't know how Real does on a PC. Oh yeah, Windows Media Format streaming also sucks.) I mean, if I want to see a Real video on the net, it is always buffering... and buffering... plays the video for a while and suddenly stops streaming half way. Windows Media does this also. I have never ever had any real problems with QuickTime. It always seems to run really smooth.
Anyway, the idea of choice isn't bad, but Real hasn't done anything for consumers in the past years. If they want to portray themselves as saints, then they should give us (PC and Mac users) something that will change our world. For now, all that Real brings is crap. This is why so many people dislike Real. Why aren't there more companies out there that don't make crap?
So, my point is:
Freedom of choice=good
No DRM=better
Real=crap
Frisco-Frisco said:Stupid question, but how does one even download a song from Real. RealOne, Real Player? Not that I would ever want to, but I am just saying if I wanted to I wouldn't even know where to look.
Simplicity
My best guess is that it's buried somewhere on Real's web site, just like all the other music services out there, instead of being integrated into the player like Apple's music service. The truth is that I don't know either
Good
People seem to forget their agenda. I dunno...I am a music consumer. Therefore, my agenda is: I want to pay the least possible amount to get the most possible return. Therefore, anything that gets the price of music as close to free as possible is, to me, a good thing.
True musicians are going to continue making music, regardless of how much they get from download sales. They'll make their money from live shows, and if they were smart, they'd make money from streaming live shows, too.
All the **** on the iTMS should be considered advertising for their shows. The bands that are going to complain about low prices for CDs and downloads are the corporate shills like BritneyCo., Metallica Inc. and U2 LLC, and so on and so forth, because only the million sellers make money with prerecorded music, anyway.
So, good for Real...let's get some competition in this market, and open up DRM standards. We can't let Apple screw this one up, and end up losing the market to Microsoft DRM, as they did with operating systems. They should have learned by now that ubiquity is a good thing.
(And that comes from a guy who LOVES Apple's products.)
People seem to forget their agenda. I dunno...I am a music consumer. Therefore, my agenda is: I want to pay the least possible amount to get the most possible return. Therefore, anything that gets the price of music as close to free as possible is, to me, a good thing.
True musicians are going to continue making music, regardless of how much they get from download sales. They'll make their money from live shows, and if they were smart, they'd make money from streaming live shows, too.
All the **** on the iTMS should be considered advertising for their shows. The bands that are going to complain about low prices for CDs and downloads are the corporate shills like BritneyCo., Metallica Inc. and U2 LLC, and so on and so forth, because only the million sellers make money with prerecorded music, anyway.
So, good for Real...let's get some competition in this market, and open up DRM standards. We can't let Apple screw this one up, and end up losing the market to Microsoft DRM, as they did with operating systems. They should have learned by now that ubiquity is a good thing.
(And that comes from a guy who LOVES Apple's products.)
padrino121 said:
i checked out the site, but didn't bother reading the petition "signatures". wow, somehow i don't think that was the response Real was hoping for. maybe they should have a moderator weeding out (both) the supportive signatures. right now it's just a Real-bashing board.
and btw, i don't know about the term "pathetic". we're oftentimes overzealous (we are "zealots", no doubt), but not pitiful or hopeless. Apple users think Windows is crap and Linux users are geeks, Linux users think Windows is crap and Apple users are loony and Windows user just use what they're given. it's all just a bunch of software in the end (some is just better writen).
actually, i stand corrected. "pathetic" is defined "1. Expressing or showing anger; passionate.", so i guess you are correct. there are a LOT of pathetic Apple zealots on that site...
wrldwzrd89 said:Frisco-
My best guess is that it's buried somewhere on Real's web site, just like all the other music services out there, instead of being integrated into the player like Apple's music service. The truth is that I don't know either
musicstore.real.com
I believe it is only built into the Windows version of the software.
Interestingly, they are selling 192 kbps AAC tracks, rather than 128kbps. I think that is a good thing.
Here is the (tongue-in-cheek) response I posted on my site this morning to this:
I would genuinely appreciate it if the executives at Real would gently get off this trend of attempting to slam Apple and do something more useful; like being jailed for hacking Apples FairPlay DRM. Isnt the US firmly bent on jailing little asshat teens for cracking DVD and other ineffective copy protection schemes? It seems like every other week some pimple-faced geek is tossed in the slammer for this sort of thing. So why are the Real decision-makers (the ones who made the command decision to crack the iPod code) not in jail being ass-reamed by Bubba the pedophile?
Makes you think
Not really, but anyhow. Real somehow has gotten away with cracking iPods DRM so Mac users around the world will instantly begin downloading an insane amount of music from the Real Networks rather than from iTMS. The technology is called Harmony and is really just a mind-boggling giant illegal hack that reaks of Microsoft fingers. I dont know how this is lawfully possible, but they did it and now promote the hell out of it on their websites. Real claims they cracked the DRM through 'public knowledge' and this is just innovation. Yeah yeah, M$ makes that claim all the time too. It causes Cheerios to launch violently from my nose with laughter.
So now, you must be as tempted as Oprah in front of 20 gallons of ice cream on a hot summers day to point your Mac over to their website and get some music for just $0.49 (well for this week)? Oh, but you say that if you go to the Real website and try to get to the music store on your Mac it says, Bugger off, youre on a Mac? Hmm imagine that. They didnt think this whole thing out too good, did they? I guess in order to get the Freedom of Choice for your APPLE iPOD, you also have to purchase a PC. I say it again, asshats. They make my ass twitch almost as much as the Evil Empire.
Speaking of Freedom of Choice, have you seen this real piece of **** website? First of all, half the links dont work. Secondly, the interface is inferior to something my kid barfed up last night on the living room rug. Next, it gives inaccurate claims that many Mac users have refuted. Finally, its just childish. And their mothers wear army boots.
Quite understandably, Apple is as stunned as someone waking up with their head stapled to the carpet. I am hoping that in retaliation they put out an iPod update that breaks the Harmony DRM hack. Something deliberate that will format the iPods hard drive with 1s and 0s for being a traitor to the cause. You should lose your license to being a Mac user if you download one song from that communist site. Yes, Real Networks is a secret Nazi organization planning to take over the world through your headphones by whispering subliminal communist propaganda. Prove to me that it isnt.
Actually, I am publicly encouraging someone to write an iPod virus that, when connected to Harmony, will attack the Real Network relentlessly. Now do my bidding.
I would genuinely appreciate it if the executives at Real would gently get off this trend of attempting to slam Apple and do something more useful; like being jailed for hacking Apples FairPlay DRM. Isnt the US firmly bent on jailing little asshat teens for cracking DVD and other ineffective copy protection schemes? It seems like every other week some pimple-faced geek is tossed in the slammer for this sort of thing. So why are the Real decision-makers (the ones who made the command decision to crack the iPod code) not in jail being ass-reamed by Bubba the pedophile?
Makes you think
Not really, but anyhow. Real somehow has gotten away with cracking iPods DRM so Mac users around the world will instantly begin downloading an insane amount of music from the Real Networks rather than from iTMS. The technology is called Harmony and is really just a mind-boggling giant illegal hack that reaks of Microsoft fingers. I dont know how this is lawfully possible, but they did it and now promote the hell out of it on their websites. Real claims they cracked the DRM through 'public knowledge' and this is just innovation. Yeah yeah, M$ makes that claim all the time too. It causes Cheerios to launch violently from my nose with laughter.
So now, you must be as tempted as Oprah in front of 20 gallons of ice cream on a hot summers day to point your Mac over to their website and get some music for just $0.49 (well for this week)? Oh, but you say that if you go to the Real website and try to get to the music store on your Mac it says, Bugger off, youre on a Mac? Hmm imagine that. They didnt think this whole thing out too good, did they? I guess in order to get the Freedom of Choice for your APPLE iPOD, you also have to purchase a PC. I say it again, asshats. They make my ass twitch almost as much as the Evil Empire.
Speaking of Freedom of Choice, have you seen this real piece of **** website? First of all, half the links dont work. Secondly, the interface is inferior to something my kid barfed up last night on the living room rug. Next, it gives inaccurate claims that many Mac users have refuted. Finally, its just childish. And their mothers wear army boots.
Quite understandably, Apple is as stunned as someone waking up with their head stapled to the carpet. I am hoping that in retaliation they put out an iPod update that breaks the Harmony DRM hack. Something deliberate that will format the iPods hard drive with 1s and 0s for being a traitor to the cause. You should lose your license to being a Mac user if you download one song from that communist site. Yes, Real Networks is a secret Nazi organization planning to take over the world through your headphones by whispering subliminal communist propaganda. Prove to me that it isnt.
Actually, I am publicly encouraging someone to write an iPod virus that, when connected to Harmony, will attack the Real Network relentlessly. Now do my bidding.
Wonder Boy said:
HAHAHA. Please. Stop it.
You are actually complaining that Real is giving Apple some 'real' competition and therefore will force Apple to drive down their own prices?
Are you the kinda guy that complains when Apple cut's prices?
BTW: these songs will work 'forever' on your iPod. Apple can't cut it off, because if they did, everyone would have to re-download _every_ song with a new encryption method with a software update on their iPod. Not gonna happen.
Not only that, I think 49cents is a very reasonable price for a music download, BECAUSE:
1) No physical distribution of CDs
2) No CDs. No cases. No cover linings.
3) Far more automated than a music store with rent, utility bills and staff.
The interesting thing is that you guys would be over the moon if Apple priced it's songs at 49c/each.
Oh another thing, a ton of stuff in OSX works because it is reverse engineered. Connecting to Windows networks for example - based on the SAMBA project which is 100% reverse engineered.
If you really think it's so immoral to improve compatibility of products, then please don't connect to a windows network with your Mac.
jaison13 said:
I don't think that this will lead to a price war. Real is losing money on each song they sell this way, so I don't believe that they will do it for very long. They are just doing it for a while to try to get the attention of new customers. They are going to take the loss for a while in the hopes that they will gain new customers who will buy regularly. Apple doesn't need to cut prices to get customers; they already have them.
Thats great news for the customers ! I can't see why anybody is voting negative unless he/she is an Apple employee.
More competition is good.
More competition is good.
argh
The iPod should be more open than it is. I think most people can agree on this. If Apple really makes a lot more money selling iPods than songs on the iTMS (as I believe they do), then there's no reason they should be afraid to license FairPlay - sure, it will introduce competition on the price of music, but they will more than make up for that market pressure by selling more iPods and collecting licensing fees.
That said, Real is (as we've come to expect from Real) going about it in a very low fashion. Apple ought to quash their stupid rebellion, but in a way that really kicks them in the teeth, and maybe even puts the final nail in their coffin: announce a licensing deal with at least one major online distributor and release an iPod software update to block Harmony songs at the same time!
The iPod should be more open than it is. I think most people can agree on this. If Apple really makes a lot more money selling iPods than songs on the iTMS (as I believe they do), then there's no reason they should be afraid to license FairPlay - sure, it will introduce competition on the price of music, but they will more than make up for that market pressure by selling more iPods and collecting licensing fees.
That said, Real is (as we've come to expect from Real) going about it in a very low fashion. Apple ought to quash their stupid rebellion, but in a way that really kicks them in the teeth, and maybe even puts the final nail in their coffin: announce a licensing deal with at least one major online distributor and release an iPod software update to block Harmony songs at the same time!
RHutch said:
Oh, so you have insider information? How do you know they haven't struck a deal with the record companies to get songs at say, 49c. They could sell them at cost, losing a few cents for download bandwidth but they can make that up in the other stuff they sell.
I'm no fan of Real, but remember they have put out a fully working, 100% compatible Real Player for OSX, something MS hasn't done. They have made a free, opensource streaming server for Linux, OSX and Windows. They certainly don't deserve to go out of business.
Remember, they _asked_ Apple multiple times and were turned down. Apple is full of half-truths imo, one minute praising open standards when it wants to and shutting out everyone else when it pleases them.
iJon said:
I don't understand your logic here. If every corporation "checked" before they got into things like this, there wouldn't be any suits for patent infringement, etc. But there is a suit against Apple and 26 (?) other companies related to use of jpeg's. You would think that Apple would check into this, right?
On the other hand, maybe the companies filing suits just "think" that they have a good case.
Regardless, checking into something doesn't mean that you will be able to avoid a suit. So don't believe that just because Real went ahead with their plan it doesn't mean that they won't get sued and lose.
This could end up being Apples saving grace if they play their cards right. They can now use this to their advantage and start licensing Fairplay to other companies (and kill off Harmony so Real will license also).
Why do they need to do this? Micro$oft. Those of us who buy Macs and iPods do so because we're willing to pay more for what we think is the best. Most people aren't like that, and will buy up another solution if it's cheaper. M$ is working on their own music package to compete with Apple. I feel safe in my belief that it won't be as nice, but I'm also equally commited to the idea that M$ will sell their systems at a loss just to pound the competition. They did that with the X-box.
This is gonna seem off the wall, but I'm going somewhere with this: Remember what MS did with USB technology when win98 came out? If a manufacturer made a USB device and wanted Microsofts "designed for win98" logo on the box (which was a big deal at the time for some reason) the device had to be disabled under win95, even though win95 osr2 supported the USB just fine (for most usb devices at the time- mice keyboards etc). This was their way of forcing the consumer to upgrade in order to use peripherals that should have worked anyway. Now who is to say they won't do the same with their music service? Make it dirt cheap. Millions of people want in on it because of the price. They license to everyone and their brother, including Real. But they have the caveat that any device that'll play their stuff, must exclude Fairplay or Harmony. No one will license Reals Harmony at that point and no one can license Fairplay anyway. Yet again, MS will rule the world with an inferior product.
They only way Apples gonna come out of this is to license Fairplay NOW and build a huge fan base through themselves and other manufacturers. The iPod and the music business isn't the same as the computer business, and Apple shouldn't follow the same business plan with it.
Why do they need to do this? Micro$oft. Those of us who buy Macs and iPods do so because we're willing to pay more for what we think is the best. Most people aren't like that, and will buy up another solution if it's cheaper. M$ is working on their own music package to compete with Apple. I feel safe in my belief that it won't be as nice, but I'm also equally commited to the idea that M$ will sell their systems at a loss just to pound the competition. They did that with the X-box.
This is gonna seem off the wall, but I'm going somewhere with this: Remember what MS did with USB technology when win98 came out? If a manufacturer made a USB device and wanted Microsofts "designed for win98" logo on the box (which was a big deal at the time for some reason) the device had to be disabled under win95, even though win95 osr2 supported the USB just fine (for most usb devices at the time- mice keyboards etc). This was their way of forcing the consumer to upgrade in order to use peripherals that should have worked anyway. Now who is to say they won't do the same with their music service? Make it dirt cheap. Millions of people want in on it because of the price. They license to everyone and their brother, including Real. But they have the caveat that any device that'll play their stuff, must exclude Fairplay or Harmony. No one will license Reals Harmony at that point and no one can license Fairplay anyway. Yet again, MS will rule the world with an inferior product.
They only way Apples gonna come out of this is to license Fairplay NOW and build a huge fan base through themselves and other manufacturers. The iPod and the music business isn't the same as the computer business, and Apple shouldn't follow the same business plan with it.
Loge said:
True, but I believe that 49c is a fairer price than 99c. I don't see why you'd pay the same amount for a lossy-compressed 128k AAC when you can get a full CD for $9.99. Obviously it's connivence, but I purchase CDs when I can and keep itunes for one or two songs I like.
suzerain said:
so when Real hacks all the DRM out of iTMS, you don't think the Big5 labels are going to freak out and pull the plug on online sales? Apple doesn't OWN the industry, they just worked out a happy medium btw all the groups involved.
let Real show how vulnerable DRM is and the RIAA will yank everything but DRM'ed CDs, which suck. i like having choices, too, but don't forget that online sales is one outlet that the recording industries don't have to do if they don't want to. i think it's a win for everyone involved right now, but if Real shows security holes in the system, why wouldn't the Big5 jack up prices to "offset" the illegal file trasnfers.
i don't know, maybe i have a bleak outlook on Harmony's impact on the online music sales industry, but i just think Apple struck a nice, delicate balance and i don't want Real jumping on the scales and watching everyone fall off...