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RealNetworks Slashes Song Prices
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shen said:
I thought the same thing when I read that post. There is such a thing as bad publicity. Ask Kathy Lee Gifford if it was good publicity when the news came out about the children in sweatshops making her line of clothing.
Partsmutt said:
But the iPod is a short-term 'craze'. It won't be around as big as it is now for much longer. Apple knows that, and that's why they need the lock-in - they want to control the millions of iPod user's song choice when it comes to downloads. If they licence it, they may sell a few more iPods now and again but in the end, they need the recurring revenue of iTMS.
padrino121 said:
I personally am not a zealot. My comments revolved around the petition, which includes many windows users who seem to hate Real. Setting up a web site like this saying you are going to send it to Apple was rather foolish at best. Can you imagine what they will say when they do send it " Dear Apple we have a petition with lots of signatures on it from people with a lot to say about your DRM - what do you think about that?"
sinisterdesign said:
Oh dear. Have you heard something of a contract? It basically assures both parties that they will do whatever they said.
The RIAA could pull out now, but they'd incur huge penalties.
Buy Fast!
I say buy as many songs at 49 cents as you can, and convert them to mp3s before the next Apple update!!!
I say buy as many songs at 49 cents as you can, and convert them to mp3s before the next Apple update!!!
The iPod is already "open" -- it supports the format that 99% of music is purchased in, namely, CDs, as well as a number of other open formats, such as MP3s and unprotected AAC. What Real is complaining about is that the iPod doesn't happen to support their own, proprietary DRM.
And make no mistake, this is a desperation move on their part. Conventionally, there are two reasons for a healthy business to sell items at a loss: a) to make it more likely for folks to continue to do business with you when the sale stops, either through some sort of lock-in, or positive experiences with your product, or b) to promote some other, related product that you make a profit on. In the latter case, Apple has the iPod which it uses as its profit centre for its music play, so it can afford to sell essentially "at cost" music. Real has no other major way to make money from selling music except selling more music, so b) doesn't work for Real. In the former case, if the music format is portable, then, price being equal, people will choose the music store that is easiest to use, or with the biggest selection, and iTMS is routinely touted as the winner among all online stores in these qualities. So again, once its half-price sale is over, Real won't have gained much, since it seems unlikely that folks would stick with it.
Sure, this garners Real some short-term publicity, but I just don't think the business model works. It's desperation.
And make no mistake, this is a desperation move on their part. Conventionally, there are two reasons for a healthy business to sell items at a loss: a) to make it more likely for folks to continue to do business with you when the sale stops, either through some sort of lock-in, or positive experiences with your product, or b) to promote some other, related product that you make a profit on. In the latter case, Apple has the iPod which it uses as its profit centre for its music play, so it can afford to sell essentially "at cost" music. Real has no other major way to make money from selling music except selling more music, so b) doesn't work for Real. In the former case, if the music format is portable, then, price being equal, people will choose the music store that is easiest to use, or with the biggest selection, and iTMS is routinely touted as the winner among all online stores in these qualities. So again, once its half-price sale is over, Real won't have gained much, since it seems unlikely that folks would stick with it.
Sure, this garners Real some short-term publicity, but I just don't think the business model works. It's desperation.
aldo said:
You maybe right (or wrong) but I remember people saying the iPod was a stupid idea in the first place, in fact I seem to remember them saying the same thing when the Sony walkman came out. Its just a craze, its stupid, the music quality is not good.
Apple want to control it probably for two main reasons
1. Money (they do get some from selling songs (not much but...)
2. They had to show the record companies that they were secure etc
maybe your reason comes in 3rd place....maybe
Erm.. Apple's BS about not making money off iTMS is just that, BS. Of course they want the money.
While I'm not saying that the iPod is going to suddenly dead, it will not sell in these quantities. Margins will fall aswell.
While I'm not saying that the iPod is going to suddenly dead, it will not sell in these quantities. Margins will fall aswell.
maybe apple will slash 
hehe i doubt it i mean we are getting the songs pretty low already but hey if they do great for the consumer, but i wonder how much apple can slash before they start losing
hehe i doubt it i mean we are getting the songs pretty low already but hey if they do great for the consumer, but i wonder how much apple can slash before they start losing
Hacker Mentality.. YES
If this isn't hacker mentality, then I don't know what is...
Why should I use RealPlayer® instead of iTunes to manage my iPod?
Question
Why should I use RealPlayer® instead of iTunes to manage my iPod?
Answer
When you use Apple iTunes to synchronize your iPod, iTunes deletes any content on your iPod that was transferred using a program other than iTunes. This content includes all music previously transferred to your iPod using RealPlayer.*(All versions of Apple iTunes for Windows up to version 4.6 include this behavior)
When you use RealPlayer to manage your iPod, RealPlayer does not delete any content from your iPod unless you specify. RealPlayer also preserves the iPod's compatibility with other music stores, so you can still transfer, store, and play back music purchased from other music stores.
It is also recommended that you not start iTunes with your iPod connected to your PC because Apple may automatically install new software on your iPod that could prevent it from being able to play songs you may have already purchased from the RealPlayer Music Store.
*If you accidentally synchronize with iTunes and find that tracks you purchased from the RealPlayer Music Store are no longer on your iPod, you can always transfer the missing tracks to your iPod again using RealPlayer.
If this isn't hacker mentality, then I don't know what is...
Why should I use RealPlayer® instead of iTunes to manage my iPod?
Question
Why should I use RealPlayer® instead of iTunes to manage my iPod?
Answer
When you use Apple iTunes to synchronize your iPod, iTunes deletes any content on your iPod that was transferred using a program other than iTunes. This content includes all music previously transferred to your iPod using RealPlayer.*(All versions of Apple iTunes for Windows up to version 4.6 include this behavior)
When you use RealPlayer to manage your iPod, RealPlayer does not delete any content from your iPod unless you specify. RealPlayer also preserves the iPod's compatibility with other music stores, so you can still transfer, store, and play back music purchased from other music stores.
It is also recommended that you not start iTunes with your iPod connected to your PC because Apple may automatically install new software on your iPod that could prevent it from being able to play songs you may have already purchased from the RealPlayer Music Store.
*If you accidentally synchronize with iTunes and find that tracks you purchased from the RealPlayer Music Store are no longer on your iPod, you can always transfer the missing tracks to your iPod again using RealPlayer.
sinisterdesign said:
I see you have no clue how this whole system works. Real has not hacked the DRM on iTMS files. They just have a method to add DRM to their own files that is compatible with Fairplay. They've cracked nothing. What they do is take the DRM off of their own files and apply DRM to them that works just like Fairplay does. The result is a Fairplay-compatible DRM file.
No cracking of DRM involved. Nothing's broken.
There's also absolutely nothing illegal about this. The algorithm behind Fairplay isn't patented. As I understand it, it's just a little fiddling with AES. It probably isn't patentable, even if Apple had tried. Patent protection is the only possible way Real could have been kept from doing this. But with no patent, there's nothing wrong being done here.
And if Real's selling at a lower price with higher quality, it might encourage Apple to try to match the competition. Competition is good.
did anyone else notice that the link to the petition has been taking off the freedom website?
aethier
aethier
Get it quick
If Real has songs at 49 cents go ahead and buy as many as you want - as long as you can burn them to a CD and move to iTunes. WHen the promotion is over drop Real (ensuring that they do not charge you a monthly fee) and get back to iTunes & TMS. Real is going to blow $2 million on this promotion so you might as well get some of the sugar.
Harmony isn't going to be that great - it won't let you use iTunes, probably screws up the sync of Calendar & Address Book and will keep iPod users from anything else APple comes out with for the iPod.
Fact it that competitors need to deliver a complete package - player, store and jukebox software - in order to really compete with the iPod. That takes a lot of money and a very elegant (and stable) design. Real couldn't hack that - too cheap, incompetent or impotent? - and this is their only chance. Real competitors (pun unintended) will surface and do well. After all, Apple has showed them how to do it. Real just ain't in that group.
If Real has songs at 49 cents go ahead and buy as many as you want - as long as you can burn them to a CD and move to iTunes. WHen the promotion is over drop Real (ensuring that they do not charge you a monthly fee) and get back to iTunes & TMS. Real is going to blow $2 million on this promotion so you might as well get some of the sugar.
Harmony isn't going to be that great - it won't let you use iTunes, probably screws up the sync of Calendar & Address Book and will keep iPod users from anything else APple comes out with for the iPod.
Fact it that competitors need to deliver a complete package - player, store and jukebox software - in order to really compete with the iPod. That takes a lot of money and a very elegant (and stable) design. Real couldn't hack that - too cheap, incompetent or impotent? - and this is their only chance. Real competitors (pun unintended) will surface and do well. After all, Apple has showed them how to do it. Real just ain't in that group.
I say, don't open the iPod
Right now, iPod plays the most mainstream formats in addition to Apple's own proprietary format. Also, iTunes Music Store is the current leader in terms of sales volume and catalog size among current online music stores.
If iPod is opened to play, for instance, protected WMA and Real's format (Helix is it?), I see the following:
- Less differentiation between stores. Why shop exclusively at iTMS when you can go to other online stores and get it cheaper? Much has been made about how access to iTMS is done only through iTunes and so "it just works". But this concept won't remain exclusive to Apple for long. Unlike the iPod design itself, other companies, particularly Microsoft and Real, could just as easily incorporate their own stores into their own players in a similar fashion. Real doing so doesn't scare me. Microsoft doing so does.
- Less reason to go iPod (besides form factor). Yes, the iPod's design makes it a leader, but for how much longer? No, Apple isn't "beleaguered" (who hates that term besides me?), but all it would take is a number of deals similar to the Apple-HP deal to put other players in the hot little hands of folks with a mind to shop where they're told to shop.
Currently, iPod demands you either buy the CD outright or buy from iTMS. No other option exists. iTMS demands you buy an iPod. Apple is riding this crest and, I suspect, hoping to weather the coming storm. The failure of Napster, Real and everyone's grandma to operate an online store has actually probably just been a learning experience for Microsoft. They will likely be the main competitor in this space.
Apple doesn't want other players to play protected AAC because then other players can operate with iTMS and Apple will lose money on iTMS (because it won't be selling as many iPods) and possibly losing market share with the iPod.
Apple doesn't want the iPod to play other protected formats because then folks will go to other stores (possibly) and buy that music. That will not likely hurt them in the short run because they will still have iPods and iTMS will still be selling music, but iTMS won't be pushing as many iPods because you could buy the same music elsewhere. And when it came time to replace your iPod, there would be no reason to go with iPod over another brand except whatever design issues Apple could bring to the table.
Creating more deals like the HPod would mitigate issues with opening the iPod to other formats since more folks would be getting iPods anyway. What does it matter what you play if you play it on an iPod?
Look for more such deals and then, and only then, for the iPod to be able to play other formats.
But then if I could figure all of this stuff out so well, I'd be a millionaire, so take with your own grain of salt, as necessary.
Right now, iPod plays the most mainstream formats in addition to Apple's own proprietary format. Also, iTunes Music Store is the current leader in terms of sales volume and catalog size among current online music stores.
If iPod is opened to play, for instance, protected WMA and Real's format (Helix is it?), I see the following:
- Less differentiation between stores. Why shop exclusively at iTMS when you can go to other online stores and get it cheaper? Much has been made about how access to iTMS is done only through iTunes and so "it just works". But this concept won't remain exclusive to Apple for long. Unlike the iPod design itself, other companies, particularly Microsoft and Real, could just as easily incorporate their own stores into their own players in a similar fashion. Real doing so doesn't scare me. Microsoft doing so does.
- Less reason to go iPod (besides form factor). Yes, the iPod's design makes it a leader, but for how much longer? No, Apple isn't "beleaguered" (who hates that term besides me?), but all it would take is a number of deals similar to the Apple-HP deal to put other players in the hot little hands of folks with a mind to shop where they're told to shop.
Currently, iPod demands you either buy the CD outright or buy from iTMS. No other option exists. iTMS demands you buy an iPod. Apple is riding this crest and, I suspect, hoping to weather the coming storm. The failure of Napster, Real and everyone's grandma to operate an online store has actually probably just been a learning experience for Microsoft. They will likely be the main competitor in this space.
Apple doesn't want other players to play protected AAC because then other players can operate with iTMS and Apple will lose money on iTMS (because it won't be selling as many iPods) and possibly losing market share with the iPod.
Apple doesn't want the iPod to play other protected formats because then folks will go to other stores (possibly) and buy that music. That will not likely hurt them in the short run because they will still have iPods and iTMS will still be selling music, but iTMS won't be pushing as many iPods because you could buy the same music elsewhere. And when it came time to replace your iPod, there would be no reason to go with iPod over another brand except whatever design issues Apple could bring to the table.
Creating more deals like the HPod would mitigate issues with opening the iPod to other formats since more folks would be getting iPods anyway. What does it matter what you play if you play it on an iPod?
Look for more such deals and then, and only then, for the iPod to be able to play other formats.
But then if I could figure all of this stuff out so well, I'd be a millionaire, so take with your own grain of salt, as necessary.
I'm all for competition, and I'm very happy if what a poster said above is true about the songs being 192 kbps (take that Apple)...
But really, screw you Real for not making a mac compatible store... (granted, it took Apple awhile to make a Windows compatible store).
But really, screw you Real for not making a mac compatible store... (granted, it took Apple awhile to make a Windows compatible store).
What a bunch of losers. They even took down the comments people wrote on the newsarticles. Now it only says how many have read it. The link to the petition is still working but not available on their site anymore:
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?r4apple
So have fun reading...
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?r4apple
So have fun reading...
Some talk about Real dying. Does anyone have a link to an article outlining their recent financial status? I appreciate it.
padrino121 said:
Oh please...
First of all, many people signing that petition aren't Apple users. Some have expressly said they use Windows. If anything, they are anti-Real zealots.
If Reals stuff has made people this angry, this is a great way to voice their opinions.
Idiocy
So the petition doesn't go the way Real wants it to go and they remove it from their site.
It's actually a good predictor of what will happen to anyone who buys Real songs for their iPods: one minute it's there, the next it's gone....
So the petition doesn't go the way Real wants it to go and they remove it from their site.
It's actually a good predictor of what will happen to anyone who buys Real songs for their iPods: one minute it's there, the next it's gone....
As consumers, everyone on this board should see this as good news. If Real Networks can succeed with this promotion, then it will add some competition to a one-horse market and lower prices for everyone. If you're still more loyal to Apple than your own wallet, this will only sell more iPods because the music for them is now cheaper. iTMS was created to sell iPods; Real is now doing all the work to achieve the same end result: selling more iPods.