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Wigletbill said:
Man, talk about a backfire. And to think they set it up as a .org. What lameness... what super lameness. Their petition is owned by people telling them to go shove it. =)

Embarrasing. That's all I can say. Anyways, I wouldn't put too much hope on real selling 700 000 songs in a year. That doesn't mean it's not possible though. I just don't know anyone who knows an online music service that they would use (and one of the reasons might be we don't have itms yet).
 
Maxx Power said:
Wouldn't that be just like what microsoft does with windows by severely restricting, slowing down or breaking the functionality of non-microshaft software on windows ?

Apple is sinking lower now...

Apple has done nothing yet. But they could, because then THEY can profit from opening up their own product to others. I can understand that!

It's not at all like MS breaking non-MS software. The iPod is a closed system supporting certain things--Apple doesn't hide this, and the overall iTunes/iPod system actually makes a better product in some ways. And unlike Windows and third-party apps, the iPod was NEVER promoted as able to play third-party DRM downloads.

And of course you can rip to CD to remove ANY DRM anyway. (I recently tried this and can detect no loss... my friend thought she could tell the difference on one song... and she liked the re-ripped song better :D )
 
Vonnie said:
Personally, I have no idea why those Apple zealots are afraid of a bit of competition in the music download field. The consumer can only be better of with the competition. If you truly believe iTMS is superior, you wouldn't care wether or not another legal-music-download service works with the ipod.

Plus, it is just hypocritical to cheer when Apple or an open-source group reverse-engineers a Microsoft proprietary protocol/fileformat, but start booing when Real reverse-engineers Apples proprietary DRM.

It's not that Real is a competitor which is the problem. The problem is that Real has hacked into Apple's DRM, which is bad for Apple and for the music download industry in general. Apple has built up goodwill with consumers and importantly with the record labels, who were/are very nervous about losing control over their cash cow. Real hacker attempts damage this goodwill.

And all Real (the same Real who are so concerned with compatitability that their music store is only compatible with Windows!) are trying to do is get people locked into their own proprietery DRM format instead of Apple's, hardly the open format warrior that it claims to be! :rolleyes:
 
I do have a freedom of music choice, it's called amazon, best buy, circuit city, tower records -- I can go to any store and buy a CD and put it on my iPod. The uneducated, potential iPod buyer will think that they can only put songs on the iPod that they buy from iTMS. This kind of trickery will work with new users, but it'll fail once they start learning more.

I am not against having online-music options, I am just against Real's tactics. Sleazy.

.narco
 
krohde said:
I really think some people on this thread have really got no brains if they don't use that thing in there called memory!

Was the iPod immediately available for windows? NO!
Was iTunes immediately available for PC? No!
Is Rhapsody immediately available for Mac? No.

Some people could even argue that some people here do NOT think before they speak!

Krohde


Rhapsody has been around longer than it took Apple to release a windows product. It was clear that Apple intendeded to release a windows product; It is clear that Real has no intention of releasing a mac product. It is harmony that just came out and that is still windows only. Some people could even argue that some people here do NOT think before they speak!

msconvert
 
Who pays .99 anyway?

I pay .75 cents per song on average from iTunes... because some I buy as whole albums. And that's not counting the over 100 songs Apple gives away each year. Some are great songs. I've also paid as little as $4.95 for an album at iTunes, and $9.99 for a 19-song compilation.

I just downloaded this week's TWO freebies, plus 5 paid songs off albums I'd never buy in their entirety.

(And BTW, neither Apple NOR Real cares about "choice" for its own sake. Apple cares about making money and making great products that stand above the rest--and they're good at doing both. Real cares about making money... and doesn't seem to be so good at it.)
 
narco said:
It'll be a flop anyway, so let Real make a total ass of itself.

I think most people will continue to buy music from iTunes, Real will maybe take a fraction of what Napster or other download services take. People are already used to using iTunes; Real's service is probably difficult to use (if it's anything like their crummy player).

.narco

That's what I am hoping for. Remember BuyMusic? Same Ads, etc. They flopped in a month. The only problem I see is the fact that the music industry people will get worried about potential leaks and vulnerabilities and just pull the whole thing off.
 
This is gonna be good. Real's sale lasts until Labor Day. Then, Real announces a million songs were sold or whatever, with great hype-hoopla. Later in the month, Apple announces the new iMacs, Apple announces whatever the rumored secret features placed in the 4G iPods was, and Apple releases an iPod update that implements the new features in the 4G and some other cool stuff in old iPods that everybody wants, and the update also just happens to break every one of those Real songs on all the iPods. "That song's copy protection data is invalid. Delete the song? Y/N" Hilarity ensues.
 
This goes to show you, apple should have made a deal with REAL and licensed their technology to them. Cause now REAL is selling music that will work on the iPod and apple is getting no royalties out of it.

If this was a situation with Microsoft people would be screaming bloody murder. Seriously, think about it.

Lets put MICROSOFT in place of APPLE and place APPLE in the place of REAL in the situation and see if it gets your blood boiling.

--- scenerio ----
Microsoft released a product that everyone is buying, apple tried to license the technology from microsoft to join into the race. Microsoft deined APPLE the rights to even license the technology from Microsoft. Apple finds a way to make the technology work without needing the rights from Microsoft, Microsoft squishes Apple intentially targeting apple's technology and explicitly breaks Apple's technology and can be proven by looking at the compliled binaries and finding exactly where it looks for APPLE TECHNOLOGY and breaks it.
---- end of scenerio ----

Now I know Apple is a "little guy" and I love apple, but this is rediculous. I am seeing people posting how nasty REAL is and how right APPLE is in keeping the technology all to themselves. I want apple to succeed more than anyone, but trying to flex their muscles and do monopoly tatics doesn't work for the little guy. People will get tired of trying to work with the 'power hungry little guy' and move on to bigger better things in the long run. That's how apple lost their market share in the first place.
 
This is my favourite from the original petition:

"53. Hey, Real: It is my brother's own fault, that I get a cold, if he doesn't borrow me his jacket."
 
Whatever happened to the rumor that Microsoft and Apple were negotiating a way to convert from AAC Fairplay to Protected WMA and vice versa?

I would love to see Steve Jobs and Bill Gates on 3-way iChat AV at AppleExpo Paris announcing the death of "Harmony".

(i know, but I don't LIKE Bill Gates and I HATE Rob Glaser)
 
salmon said:
Someone explain to me why everyone thinks Real is evil for doing this?

I don't think Real is evil for doing this. I think Real is evil because of the crapware it has put out for the past ~10 years (trying to remember exactly when RealPlayer went from okay to crap) and the trickery they resort to to get people to download a "free trial" of the not-free player instead of the free player, and the countless reformat/reinstall cycles I had to do with Windows 98 before finding out that the offending software was RealPlayer, and the general we-don't-care-about-users-we-only-care-about-locking-in-all-content-providers approach of doing business which was lucrative but ultimately not sustainable, and which caused most of the above problems.

That's why Real is evil, and why their software will never corrupt the hard drive of one of my computers ever again.
 
ShermDog said:
Even if the non-sale cost of the generic brand is lower than the name brand, you stick with the name brand because it's worth the premium you pay.

That makes sense, but that's hardly the case here. Real's files are technically superior to Apple's. Real sells 192 kbps AAC while Apple is selling 128. A 49 cent sale is icing on the cake. If Real publicizes it right, I don't see how they can't win from this.
 
Supposing I had a PC and an iPod (I own neither), would RealPlayer allow me to play both Harmony and Apple FairPlay AACs? Because if not, then what would be the point of switching to RealPlayer--I'd lose all my ITMS songs. If I stick with iTunes on the PC, then the iPod deletes my RealPlayer songs. Unless Real has a fix for this, that's the real reason their strategy won't work.
 
aldo said:
Not only that, I think 49cents is a very reasonable price for a music download, BECAUSE:

1) No physical distribution of CDs
2) No CDs. No cases. No cover linings.
3) Far more automated than a music store with rent, utility bills and staff.

The interesting thing is that you guys would be over the moon if Apple priced it's songs at 49c/each.

I agree 100%. Now, if someone besides Real did this, I'd gladly aid in their quarterly losses by buying out the store. But Real ... no, I just can't bring myself to be a part of their next "we had 200 downloads this month!" press release.

As for fairness of pricing ... Apple isn't making much of a profit off the iTMS, and none of the others are either. $.99 is just a few cents over break-even. Even without the equipment and connection costs, Apple only gets about $.30 in revenues per song sold. The only guys making serious money here, as it has always been, are the record companies. Until they loosen up their contracts, $.99 is about as good as you're going to get.
 
Wonder Boy said:
you really think 99cents is expensive? im all for lowering prices, but i have no tolerance for whiners who think 99cents is too much. get a job.

Greatness! Pure Greatness! Maybe you should think before you write stuff like this...

First of all, no one said 99 cents was expensive! Second of all, most logical people will agree that its better to get two songs for 99 cents instead of just one! Third of all, no one is whining! Many of us are looking at the positive side of this instead of just bashing Real...Fourth of all, I have a job!
 
sfhc21 said:
Good for Real! Lower prices are good for the customer! I hope they do well, and then hopefully force Apple to lower their prices.



:D :D :D :D :D That is the ..... I mean how ....can you be?

Do you actually think for one nanosecond that .50 is a sustainable price?!?! Sure as heck Real is eating the other .50 out of pocket and sure as heck it won't last more then a few weeks. Real isn't exactly doing well financially. Doing this stunt is going to cause them to bleed money like an arterial hemorrhage and it sure isn't going to last long.
At any rate Apple isn't going to blink. .99 is the price music is going to stay at unless the RIAA decides to stop asking for what? I thought I had read around .60 out of a dollar goes to the RIAA. Could be wrong though.
At any rate I want to see them go down. This is dicking with someone else's creation. I don't care what "reason" they have. This is Apple's baby and the fact that Real went to Apple and made the offer then turned around with this BS speaks of a cheap ***, childish company.
 
wordmunger said:
Supposing I had a PC and an iPod (I own neither), would RealPlayer allow me to play both Harmony and Apple FairPlay AACs? Because if not, then what would be the point of switching to RealPlayer--I'd lose all my ITMS songs. If I stick with iTunes on the PC, then the iPod deletes my RealPlayer songs. Unless Real has a fix for this, that's the real reason their strategy won't work.

Yes! This to me is the key. Everyone keeps focusing on Real's songs playing on the iPod but if I can't manage them with iTunes then forget it, I'm never going to use Real Player (or any other program I've tried to-date) to manage all of my music and I'm certainly not going to use two players to manage it. Although I know there are numerous people who don't care for the iTunes program I think it's the key to making Apple's strategy work.
 
There is a very clear reason that this whole thing is bad. The iPod remains the dominant player because of one thing: the user experince. This is everything from buying songs on iTMS to transferring them to the player, to listening to them. Apple's control over this experience, the reason they are a vertically integrated company, is why it is so seamless. Just like why the experience using OS X on a mac is so differenth than a windows box.

If Apple were to license Fairplay DRM, then iPod users could buy from many stores, but apple has no control over these stores. They could use lower bitrates, which would annoy some customers. They could just have a clunky, frustrating environment. They could even have problems where people buy songs, then the download doesn't work. This causes bumps in the iPod experience. What if someone in another store makes a mistake and breaks iPod compatibility. Customers start calling apple tech support. Apple can do nothing about this because it isn't their own product. The customer then gets mad and thinks Apple tech support is horrible! "why is my iPod such a POS?" they ask. Then they look for an alternative in their next digital music player.

By forcing open Apple's DRM scheme, real has made this situation even stickier for apple than in the above scenario. Apple has the choice to break their little haxie, but then the customers get confused and wonder why songs they thought should work won't. Apple's tech support gets a headache. If apple chooses not to break the haxie then we enter something like the above scenario, and another nightmare.

Apple is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Here's hoping Apple comes up with a creative solution to this debacle that solves everything. Or that they can nick harmony completely before any damage is done.
 
i think one of the points that most are missing is the technology running the music. people will ultimately choose what works best for them. real has no "real" argument - people who want a "choice" will use their system, others will use other technologies. it isn't just one player, one format - any educated user knows there are several alternatives.

this is just typical bull**** marketing. piss someone off for a reaction and free publicity. this is not a good long-term solution for Real. anyone with a few business courses knows that if you cut your price at the start of a business people are not likely going to stay with you when your prices go back to their normal level. in this case doubling, back to the "nasty, controlling, only choice of apple" prices of $1.

i think apple has done more thinking about this than people give them credit.
 
Best reason for failure yet!!!

wordmunger said:
Supposing I had a PC and an iPod (I own neither), would RealPlayer allow me to play both Harmony and Apple FairPlay AACs? Because if not, then what would be the point of switching to RealPlayer--I'd lose all my ITMS songs. If I stick with iTunes on the PC, then the iPod deletes my RealPlayer songs. Unless Real has a fix for this, that's the real reason their strategy won't work.

Who wants to manage two libraries! Brilliant. This is absolutly correct! Apple is all about ease of use. People who buy the iPod want to keep that ease of use. Real is doomed; Doomed I say!

(BTW. I don't think either company is going escalate the "war" to the point of deleting each others files.)
 
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