RED President played a role in making the new modular Mac Pro

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by aaronhead14, Aug 2, 2017.

  1. aaronhead14, Aug 2, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017

    aaronhead14 macrumors 6502

    aaronhead14

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    #1
    Jarred Land (president of RED Digital Cinema) has said that the reason the RED Raven is now exclusively available at the Apple Store is because it was part of a deal to get the new modular Mac Pro made. Here are screengrabs of his original FB post, and a response of his to a question about RED and Apple making a deal together.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I also wonder if RED is giving any input on the design of the Mac Pro. RED is known for their modular cameras, and it's interesting that Apple specifically uses the word "modular" to describe their new Mac Pro, rather than language like "user-upgradeable" or "customizable" or something. So I wonder if Apple is adapting RED's version of modularity.

    Link to entire post: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154887988410415&set=a.78776125414.81226.625665414&type=3

    Link to RED Raven at the Apple Store: https://www.apple.com/us_smb_78313/shop/product/HK8Q2ZM/A/red-raven-camera-kit-final-cut-pro-x
     
  2. h9826790 macrumors 604

    h9826790

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    #2
    I am not a RED product user, so, not very familiar with their stuff. However, for me, this doesn't sounds like a good news. If Apple follow the industrial standard. They don't need to ask RED to join their 7,1 hardware project. As long as the 7,1 has standard PCIe slot, RED's hardware can fit inside the 7,1 properly.

    In this case, may be Apple just ask RED to work with them to make one of the module, which originally should be a PCIe card, and now become a non-standard module.

    Since it's very specifically stated that's about the Mac Pro hardware programme. So, it should not be just asking RED to work with them on the 7,1's software compatibility issue.
     
  3. ActionableMango macrumors 604

    ActionableMango

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    #3
    I don't understand what you mean. What is "RED's version of modularity"?
     
  4. aaronhead14 thread starter macrumors 6502

    aaronhead14

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    #4
    RED's modularity is interesting and also a bit odd. Here's the gist: they sell you the "brain" of their cameras, which is basically the main part of the camera. It has the processor(s), the sensor, etc. But then you can also add on other modules that you wish (some of which are actually necessary in order for the camera to function), such as the SSD reader/writer (necessary to record footage), the battery module (necessary if you want to run the camera with a battery), the base expander (gives you AC power, HDMI, SDI, timecode), handles, monitors, viewfinders, side controllers, and more. There are a bunch of modules, but those are the main basic ones. You can also change the lens mount on the camera, meaning that you can mount lenses from different types of cameras that have different mounts (such as Canon, Nikon, or PL).

    Here's a picture of just the brain of a RED camera:

    [​IMG]

    And here's a picture of one with several added modules (plus lens and battery):

    [​IMG]


    In short, the RED cameras are fully customizable (which is a good thing), BUT only with RED's proprietary modules or modules that other manufacturers have licensed through RED (which I think is odd and kind of dumb).

    I wouldn't be surprised if Apple made their new modular Mac Pro in the same way: Totally customizable but only with proprietary modules. I sure hope that's not the case though (meaning, I hope we can include components from 3rd party manufacturers as well), but I'm just saying I could see Apple doing something similar to RED here.

    Either way though, I am pumped for the new modular Mac Pro.
     
  5. BB8 macrumors regular

    BB8

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    #5
    I have so little faith in apple's ability to keep their computers updated as it is, the idea of them regularly updating a bunch of proprietary modules for a niche product just doesn't sound likely.
     
  6. ActionableMango macrumors 604

    ActionableMango

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    #6
    Wow, thanks for the thorough response. It was interesting to read.
     
  7. aaronhead14 thread starter macrumors 6502

    aaronhead14

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    #7
    Agreed. I sure hope it's fully customizable with 3rd-party hardware. PCIe is a must!
     
  8. deconstruct60 macrumors 604

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    #8
    I'm not sure that is what he said.

    " ... only because of their investment into their Mac pro hardware program..."


    You are reading that as though it said " Mac Pro, hardware program". There is no cap 'P'. That could easily be read as " Mac , pro hardware program". As the iMac Pro is going to released long before any revision to the Mac Pro appears ( which is at least early 2018 if not substantively later into the year... which is more than likely ... Apple has no fast past track record of Mac hardware for the last several years. ).

    The new Mac Pro is in the group of Mac , pro hardware program devices, but it isn't the only or primary target of the whole group.


    Second this exclusive thing appears only for the Kit ( as bundling the FCPX software is being traded as a feature). The Raven was announced in 2015 and scheduled to ship in Feb 2016.

    "... The camera will ship in February 2016. Ahead of that, customers can reserve RAVEN in one of three packages via a deposit. The RED RAVEN Brain costs $5,950 USD and requires a $500 deposit. Also available is the RED RAVEN Jetpack Package for drone and gimbal uses, and the Base I/O Package for “run-and-gun applications," both of which require a $1,000 deposit. ..."
    https://www.dpreview.com/articles/0967978388/red-unveils-raven-a-lightweight-and-portable-4k-camera

    rumblings about it finally shipping in March of 2016

    "... So, it seems that the RED RAVEN is finally shipping— ..."
    https://www.cinema5d.com/red-raven-shipping/


    In the year the that the Raven modules were available who didn't buy one who needed one ? (e.g., dealer network , equipment leasing shops, etc. ) . This more so looks like both sides are doing each other a favor. The minimum buy-in to a Red Raven is now higher than it was. Apple may be putting a floor under the sales (perhaps temporarily) and Red helps Apple out with their "pro" market image issue with a segment of the user base.


    On the other end of the price spectrum from this $15K kit is the Free version of Avid Media.

    https://www.engadget.com/2017/08/01/Avid-Media-Composer-First-free-app-hands-on/


    There is ton of relatively high market saturation going on here and a bit of rubic's cube maneuvering to try to adjust for that.


    I don't think there is high overlap in a shared, very narrow use of the word "modular" here. I'm sure Red would like for there to be some option to stuff in a single card to bump their RAW processing up a notch. The iMac Pro will work for a decent number of folks but RED's market is more geared to the 1% .
     
  9. JesterJJZ macrumors 68020

    JesterJJZ

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    #9
    Jarred is a Mac fan and wants to keep the professional Mac workstation alive. He's been at this for a long time.
     
  10. mattspace macrumors 6502a

    mattspace

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    #10
    The part that I think is most important - you don't have to toss out the lenses, video monitor screen, SSDs, mounting rails etc when you upgrade the sensor. That's the key thing, we shouldn't have to get rid of parts whose performance we're happy with, just to speed up the one part we're not.

    Oh yeah, and lenses (which it can be argued are the most important part of a camera system) aren't RED products.
     
  11. Michael Scrip, Aug 2, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017

    Michael Scrip macrumors 601

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    #11
    Exactly.

    PCIe slots and devices already exist. So do standard CPU sockets, RAM slots, hard drive connectors, etc. All of this has already been created.

    I hope Apple doesn't try to re-invent the wheel like they did with the last Mac Pro.

    There's no need to be "clever" when designing the next Mac Pro workstation. It just needs to work. It's right there in the name... "work"

    Just make it look like and function like a PC tower case. No one will mind. In fact... it will be preferred.
     
  12. aaronhead14 thread starter macrumors 6502

    aaronhead14

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    #12
    Good point! (Unless you're using the old RED primes, that is).
     
  13. Derpage Suspended

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    #13
    I dunno what will happen when the kings of dongles meet the king of 1k dollar handles but I'm not really looking forward to it.
     
  14. deconstruct60 macrumors 604

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    #14
    There is no huge mismatch between this bundle and the iMac Pro.

    4.5K sensor --> 5K screen on iMac Pro ( it will all fit and perhaps some slim tool bar on screen. )

    FCPX skew --> iMac Pro probably will run that software better than the previous Mac Pros.
    [ One of the things the Mac Pro 2013 did well was run FCPX. ]

    it is full complete kit ( the modularity is primary focus, buying something that works after assembly) --> iMac works after assembly.


    That said besides the FCPX and Apple/MacOS workflow stuff ... the vast majority of this kit works with Windows too. FCPX is around $300. ( that is a saving in the bundle), but in perspective the sales tax of 6.5% on 15K is $975. It isn't like the value proposition on the kit completely collapses if you don't use the FCPX software. Folks with a $3-8K sunk costs into a Windows system aren't going to dump it if get this kit. Even folks with Mac set ups and already have FCPX that license bundle isn't much of a game changer.

    The kit would work well with a incrementally more flexible Mac Pro update ( a slot or two for standard PCI-e cards), but this is in no way inherently systemic of Apple doing a complete 180 from the Mac Pro 2013. It will help with selling more Macs in the workstation performance class. But notion that this a holy grail, pure "box with slots" move ( the connotation of 'workstation" common thrown around in this forum). It isn't there.

    An overly narrow focus on 4K FCPX workflow is one of the things I think enabled the "paint into a corner" trap that Apple fell into. This camera isn't that far off of being hooked to that exact same tune. Still approximately 4K. Still focal point pointed at FCPX. That's is a good fit with where Apple has been with the MP 2013 and iMac Pro 2017 now. What Apple comes up with in 2018 for Mac Pro may or may not have a major driver behind this kit. The kit helps with their current "finger in the dike" offerings.


    Red has a 5K camera that isn't in an Apple exclusive lock up. It is a bit more expensive but closer tot he 4.5K than to the 6K (and up) options. Again not particularly driving something here with Apple that doesn't fit Apple's next 4-8 month window of what they have prepped. ( 6K and up is where the mismatch is for rest of 2017. )
     
  15. William Payne macrumors 6502a

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    #15
    I can't complain really at this, if RED is working with Apple on stuff then cool. RED footage while I have never dealt with it is known to be some of the most crazy stuff to work with. I have seen computers built for RED footage that were crazy, massive amounts of ram, multiple gpu's, all the high end crazy stuff that people love so much.

    My logic is if they are working on stuff to handle RED's then there is not a whole lot of other stuff you won't be able to do.
     
  16. zephonic macrumors 65816

    zephonic

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    #16
    I think "modular" MacPro has been widely misunderstood. Schiller's actual words were:

    https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/06/t...-john-ternus-on-the-state-of-apples-pro-macs/

    The way I read it, does not necessarily imply it will be user-expandable, or have PCIe slots. I take it to mean they will design it in a way that makes it easy to update for Apple.

    Not saying I'm right, but he phrases this so carefully, I have a hard time believing they'd make an expandable box like the cMP. My best guess is you can pick and choose options when buying, like multiple GPU's or SSD's etc., but not necessarily add your own after-market stuff.
     
  17. Michael Scrip macrumors 601

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    #17
    Dang... good catch.

    If that's true... then Apple will be repeating the same mistakes of the cylinder Mac Pro.

    Sure... Apple would be able to update Mac Pro parts from year to year.

    But without user-replaceable/upgradable parts... it's back to being a disposable $3,000-$10,000 workstation.

    Which is NOT the direction a workstation needs to go.
     
  18. BB8 macrumors regular

    BB8

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    #18
    these two things go hand in hand though.

    a boring box that's easy to upgrade with third party components is easy for apple to keep updated. anything proprietary would require more effort from Apple.
     
  19. JesterJJZ macrumors 68020

    JesterJJZ

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    #19
    I am fairly certain the new MacPro will have at least two double wide PCIe slots.
     
  20. William Payne macrumors 6502a

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    #20
    RED has their own PCIE cards that assist with their footage so I imagine they would be either coming up with another way or having some kind of slot system.
     
  21. JesterJJZ macrumors 68020

    JesterJJZ

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    #21
    Irrelevent...Rocket cards are less and less useful with how powerful GPUs have gotten. I doubt new Rocket cards will even be made by Red.
     
  22. William Payne macrumors 6502a

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    #22
    RED rocket is not a GPU which is why I mentioned it. You obviously have more experience then me judging by your RED ownership, I really can't comment though as I have had nothing to do with RED footage so it would be wrong of me to discuss the cards importance without user experience.
     
  23. Derived macrumors regular

    Derived

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    #23
    It always amazes me how easily everyone in this sub forum can take literally any piece of information written in any sort of language and turn it into a negative W.R.T. the new Mac Pro. Cracks me up.

    This can only be a good thing - this guy's company builds industry-standard cameras - the fact that they're asking for his input is a good thing. There is literally no way on earth that this can be seen as a bad thing.

    As always, remain very optimistic about what's coming down the pipe.
     
  24. William Payne macrumors 6502a

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    #24
    I agree, this to me is positive.
     
  25. AidenShaw macrumors P6

    AidenShaw

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    #25
    It's positive that the leader of a company known for proprietary, non-standard modules is involved in the design of the modular Apple Pro?

    I'd call it frightening, not positive.
     

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