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Here's a question to you pros out there. Has RED managed to develop a brand image similar to Apple? It's the cool brand to use? It seems that way to me but I am in no way a professional camera person.
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All RED really is/was is marketing. Started by the man who founded Oakley sunglasses (and a huge camera buff) RED is very much a lot of branding and trying to be "cool" and "paramilitary".

In the early years of RED this was all they really had and they sold it hard. And it worked on smaller indy people and people outside of Los Angeles in smaller markets with out the ease of access to professional gear.
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I had no idea about Red Digital Cinema, so I hit Wikipedia, read this, and actually laughed out loud: "The company started with the intent to deliver an affordable 4k digital cinema camera." Maybe we could use the Red Raven on Candid Camera to film people reacting to the price of the cheap model.

The company was started to deliver an affordable HD camera to, as well as outside of, the professional world. The original Red One (a huge POS) cost only $17k at the time (for just the body) in comparison to the big brand pro HD cameras of its time such as the Sony F900 which was $100k for the body.

RED is largely responsible for democratizing filmmaking...good and bad.
 
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Blather complete nonsense much? Been doing it for YEARS. Maybe catch a clue before you post next time?

Haha, your obviously an internet troll. Being able to open an .R3D file and edit or color it efficiently are two totally differently things. The highest level iMac still isn't that great of an offering for Pro level Editing and Coloring. I know their are people that can do it, but it would never consider it a Professional choice.

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Yeah. And what an amazing living that must be with that "super-pro" setup! LOL

I use a MacPro 12 Core with a Cubix Expander with now 3x 1080ti, A full Davinci Resolve Panel with Multiple OLEDs in a Grading theatre with a Cristie 4k. The room and equipment run in the $500k range and our companies media server put its close to million for just that room. We have a Flame Room running the latest software and a recent Hardware build, and 20 AVID edit suites all connected to the same server.

It is very super Pro. Your obviously just trolling.



OUCH. You clearly have no clue what you're going on about. Wow. As if the WRAPPER had anything whatsoever to do with quality! LOL! As if "MXF" was a codec or something or in and of itself had ANY relevance whatsoever! As if there were even any such thing as an "SMPTE MXF". :rolleyes: Just some blowhard that picked up fragments of tech talk on the net without so much as an inkling of what it's all about or actually means… hilarious.

Don't bother with semantics, your obviously just trolling again. Yes I know MXF is just a container, but SMPTE has been pushing for MXF wrapped material in their standardization process against others. ProRes being the codec. So MXF wrapped DNxHD or Raw or others..


Yeah. We'll just completely ignore the fact that Final Cut Pro X is the most installed pro-level NLE on the market. Or that owning a RED has ZERO relevance in anyone's choice of NLE. So we'll just make crap up as we go along to fit our tiny, narrow perspective and knowledge on matters.

You try to bash all the pros on this forum, like a true troll, then you start talking about Final Cut Pro X?? Hahaha. That is pretty hilarious. Final Cut Pro X might have a large install base, but for professional finishing and professional post production, it is still not widely used.

I don't think anyone cares if you get the job done with a RED camera and a Apple Laptop running Final Cut Pro X, that is great. Just don't bash the people who don't. Take the Troll level down a bit.
 
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The company was started to deliver an affordable HD camera to, as well as outside of, the professional world. The original Red One (a huge POS) cost only $17k at the time (for just the body) in comparison to the big brand pro HD cameras of its time such as the Sony F900 which was $100k for the body.

RED is largely responsible for democratizing filmmaking...good and bad.
Less obscenely expensive is still expensive. To call a $17,000 kit "affordable" is insultingly misleading. I can buy a 4K video camera for $350. That's affordable. That democratizes high-def video. What Red apparently meant was "a full-featured ultra-high-end, state-of-the-art, ultra-HD video camera that will cost professional filmmakers less than the current similar options, while gutting them on absurdly-priced 'accessories' without which the camera is unusable."

But I guess this is all semantics. Red never tried to make a ripple in the consumer market. In the strange silo of professional filmmaking, I'm sure $17,000 seems as reasonably entry-level as a $17,000 hammer does on a Congressional budget spreadsheet.
 
You're sitting there whining about professional gear and costs and trying to equate to consumer products. A $350 consumer HD camera doesn't even achieve 2/3rd's the functionality, or even touch the image quality as their professional counterparts.

It's not semantics, its asinine.
 
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I see the "red" brand and I can't stop thinking of Linustech's video where he blasts the company over overcharging for so many of their accessories.

Being a pro photographer means
That you do shoots for magazines. That you run a tourist business ferrying clients to exotic locales. That you sell your prints to a small clientele. That you cover the big games for SI.
Being a pro cinematographer means

That you directed principal photography for Pirates of the Caribbean IV, and your accountants made sure that you didn't buy the stuff that you didn't need.

And those same accountants would probably have nixed LinusMediaGroups's business case for "8K".
 
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Jarred Land (president of RED) confirming that this was part of a deal to get Apple to make the new modular Mac Pro.

KFeNK1C.png


Link to entire post: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154887988410415&set=a.78776125414.81226.625665414&type=3
 
I've been editing raw .r3d files on my Mac Pro for a few years now.
Me too, on my hackintosh, and my Macbook Pro. R3D is an excellent format.

This does, however, make me somewhat nervous as a Raven owner. I don't want to have to deal with Apple at all because I chose not to upgrade to Scarlet/Weapon. It also makes me wonder if not taking advantage of owner pricing might've been a bad decision depending upon how this goes.
 
You're sitting there whining about professional gear and costs and trying to equate to consumer products. A $350 consumer HD camera doesn't even achieve 2/3rd's the functionality, or even touch the image quality as their professional counterparts.

It's not semantics, its asinine.
Ahhhhh. There, you did it. You went and got nasty. Ok, fine.

I'm not sitting, nor am I whining. What I'm doing is observing that Red is failing in their stated founding mission to create an "affordable" high end professional video camera. The Weapon is twice the price of the Sony PMW-F55, just as the Raven is twice the price of the excellent PSW-FS7. Blackmagic would seem to be a segment disrupter with the URSA Mini Pro for less than $6K. There are the tools of professionals, not Best Buy shoppers. Of course Hollywood isn't going to turn to a $350 camcorder. Duh. But anyone who thinks Red is being aggressive with their pricing (and that of their endless accessories) is delusional. Red's no filmmaker's Robin Hood; they're making modular Rolls Royces.

And speaking of delusional, you, on the other hand, are clinging to the idea that because it is what it is it must be right. And then you got nasty. What, did you feel personally attacked? Do you work for Red?
 
Ahhhhh. There, you did it. You went and got nasty. Ok, fine.

I'm not sitting, nor am I whining. What I'm doing is observing that Red is failing in their stated founding mission to create an "affordable" high end professional video camera. The Weapon is twice the price of the Sony PMW-F55, just as the Raven is twice the price of the excellent PSW-FS7. Blackmagic would seem to be a segment disrupter with the URSA Mini Pro for less than $6K. There are the tools of professionals, not Best Buy shoppers. Of course Hollywood isn't going to turn to a $350 camcorder. Duh. But anyone who thinks Red is being aggressive with their pricing (and that of their endless accessories) is delusional. Red's no filmmaker's Robin Hood; they're making modular Rolls Royces.

And speaking of delusional, you, on the other hand, are clinging to the idea that because it is what it is it must be right. And then you got nasty. What, did I insult your sister by accident or something?

When RED first came to market they were the price disrupters. They were the under cutters and the people lowering the roof. Pandoras box was opened and couldn't be closed. And they were offering ridiculous deals. Upgrade to a RED MX by trading in your old RED one body FOR FULL PURCHASE PRICE CREDIT.

We aren't talking about what they have become in terms of offerings and prices. We are discussing who they were when they were the new kid.

They didn't fail (sadly) they became successful and achieved what they set out to do, become a real player in the game. You also forget to mention their Scarlett camera and these raven models when talking about price. You can't just point out the top model and forget the rest.

Black Magic. They have done some very interesting things. They are also the newer kid on the block. I love their pocket cinema camera, used to own one. And the Ursa Mini Pro offers a lot...but Blackmagic doesn't have the marketing in place, nor the transparency, and they were plagued with QC issues from the get go that continue to haunt them. Many people do not take them seriously as contenders...though I much prefer the Ursa Mini to RED.

RED's history in offering an affordable cinema camera paved the way for companies such as blackmagic to take the plunge. RED also hurt private owner operators because of the market flooding and subsequent lowering of rental prices.

Because of RED, the fact you can now get an Arri Mini or Amira for under $60k is quite an accomplishment.

Just because you can't wrap your head around what is "affordable" in this industry just shows you know nothing about it. Yet you continue to argue the silliest things.
 
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Ahhhhh. There, you did it. You went and got nasty. Ok, fine.

I'm not sitting, nor am I whining. What I'm doing is observing that Red is failing in their stated founding mission to create an "affordable" high end professional video camera. The Weapon is twice the price of the Sony PMW-F55, just as the Raven is twice the price of the excellent PSW-FS7. Blackmagic would seem to be a segment disrupter with the URSA Mini Pro for less than $6K. There are the tools of professionals, not Best Buy shoppers. Of course Hollywood isn't going to turn to a $350 camcorder. Duh. But anyone who thinks Red is being aggressive with their pricing (and that of their endless accessories) is delusional. Red's no filmmaker's Robin Hood; they're making modular Rolls Royces.

And speaking of delusional, you, on the other hand, are clinging to the idea that because it is what it is it must be right. And then you got nasty. What, did you feel personally attacked? Do you work for Red?

Most intraframe mpeg2/mpeg4 codecs don't have as much latitude or color information. The Sony FS7 I would say is 50% the quality of the Red, and Red is 85% the quality of ARRI, and the new ARRI is 100% of of True Digital Cinema. Sony FS7 records an MPEG2 or MPEG4 intraframe codec, not sure which, but either way it is junky as an acquisition format, IMHO. For delivery it has its place. The Red can record more color information, has more image detail and now can record greater than a 4k image.

Not sure if you can record to a Ninja or something like how people shoot the a7S, but most people don't shoot that way. If you did, you could record to ProRes or DNxHD, much better codecs.

The snowboard, skateboard and action sports world has take a great liking to the FS7 for its size and portability, as well as ENG or Docs, but the Red captures a far superior image which makes the FS7 look sub-par in comparison.
 
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Less obscenely expensive is still expensive. To call a $17,000 kit "affordable" is insultingly misleading. I can buy a 4K video camera for $350. That's affordable. That democratizes high-def video. What Red apparently meant was "a full-featured ultra-high-end, state-of-the-art, ultra-HD video camera that will cost professional filmmakers less than the current similar options, while gutting them on absurdly-priced 'accessories' without which the camera is unusable."

To ignore the time period that quote is from is insultingly misleading. The Red One came out in 2007. It shot RAW 4K up to 30fps (and 2K up to 120fps) at a time when most cameras weren't 4K and didn't shoot RAW. It was hard to even get a decent HD camera in 2007 for $350.

But I guess this is all semantics. Red never tried to make a ripple in the consumer market. In the strange silo of professional filmmaking, I'm sure $17,000 seems as reasonably entry-level as a $17,000 hammer does on a Congressional budget spreadsheet.

This is a terrible analogy. An overpriced hammer is an overpriced hammer. If it was easy to build a cheaper cinema-level 4.5K camera that shoots 120fps RAW, they'd exist. Cinema cameras carry cinema camera price tags. In our industry, you're paying for a bleeding edge camera that cheaper manufacturers don't make (and cams are already expensive). You're paying for the ability to rig something, rely on it, and get the shot all while making your life easier through the lifetime of the camera. You can also rent it out so that others can do the same. It's an investment like any other, and a worthy one.

Consider this, a metal plate with tapped holes in our industry costs $200. It is what it is. If I wanted to change it, I would, but I want to make images so I work in the system that exists. There's a reason we pay for it. And there's a reason they sell these cameras, and that they're sought after. If they didn't have loyal customers, they wouldn't exist.

Also consider that our industry is one where people are expected to understand and be familiar with equipment. If you show up to a set with a camera no one is familiar with, you're not going to have a good time. When I show up, I build the camera, and everyone else that needs to work on it, knows what they need to do. I don't have to tell different people how to rig things so I can focus on what I'm there to do. And if I'm not editing, I can be confident that people all down the line will know what they need to do and that they'll have what they need to do their jobs.

It's more than just, "hey guys let's rig up this $350 camera I found on Amazon."

EDIT: didn't see this argument continued. I'll bow out. No need to duplicate arguments.

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Being a pro photographer means
That you do shoots for magazines. That you run a tourist business ferrying clients to exotic locales. That you sell your prints to a small clientele. That you cover the big games for SI.
Being a pro cinematographer means

That you directed principal photography for Pirates of the Caribbean IV, and your accountants made sure that you didn't buy the stuff that you didn't need.

And those same accountants would probably have nixed LinusMediaGroups's business case for "8K".

I watched that a few weeks ago and laughed. Like come on, you expect us to believe that you didn't know any of that going into it? His schtick was off the charts. And everyone watching is wondering what he possibly needs 2 8K cameras for.
 
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The Raven is a very good deal, in fact so good that it's been out of stock for a few months. I got the first one here in Norway, used it for 9 months then sold it for the same price I bought it as it was impossible to get hold of.

R3d is a great codec, I've been editing my Red files since I first got the Red Epic 5K camera back in 2011. I still use my Mac Pro 2008 some times to edit those files. You can to edit in full, 1/4, 1/8 or 1/16 quality. That means I can even check my footage in the field on my MacBook Air 11" from 2012.

I sold my Raven to upgrade to he new Red 8K camera, and 8K is a struggle in post. For smaller projects I shoot 6K and 7K to ease the post part.
I've been a big fan of Red since I got my first camera in 2011.
Not only were they cheaper than anything else, you could keep it e
Really small and carry it all over the mountain in deep snow filming action sports.
Oh, and you could shoot 96fps in 5K resolution. It was unheard of in one package.

Ps its people who make money from their cameras that buy Red cameras, very few hobbyists.
 
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http://www.red.com/store/products/red-raven-camera-kit

Looks like Apple have lost the exclusive rights to the Raven already. Their website is saying unavailable and you can now order it again from RED's own site (which says it's currently in stock as I type this).

The only reason Apple got the RED exclusive was because Apple swore that they where going to make a new Professional Mac again.. Maybe iMac Pro delayed? and MacPro 7,1 is never coming...
 
The only reason Apple got the RED exclusive was because Apple swore that they where going to make a new Professional Mac again.. Maybe iMac Pro delayed? and MacPro 7,1 is never coming...
I think it was more sharing technology with the Hydrogen and iPhone rather than cameras.
 
If you buy it through Red, you get $250 in credit towards a Red Accessory.
If you were able to buy it through Apple, you got Final Cut Pro. ($299 value)
 
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