Refreshed MacBook Pros show slipping standards at Apple?

[altecXP]

I opened up a macbook at work last week to do a RAM upgrade on it and found a small back screw witting on the optical drive. I couldn't see any place it was from and it didn't look broken and there was no thread lock on it.

While I rant about Apples HW choices a lot and their price, I have to admit I was a little puzzled. I hadn't ever seen tat before in any laptop.

 

[Looon]

you know this might not be a problem if these laptops weren't made by idiots in china.

If Apple didn't make their laptops in China they would cost a lot more than normal laptops
oh wait, they already do

 

[kjos8035]

Try opening up and dissecting an HP or Dell. Brings the lulz.

 

[dime21]

I guess this means evan Apple are looking to save money in this unstable economy.

"Made in China". What did you expect?

 

[dime21]

Try opening up and dissecting an HP or Dell. Brings the lulz.

I can't speak for Dell, but HP is absolute bottom of the barrel, by far the crappiest build quality of any notebook manufacturer. Just truly awful. I'll never buy another.

 

[AlBDamned]

Pretty much every new Apple notebook/iMac generation/revision has problems with the first few batches. Whether it's the first MBP Core Duos (heat, paste issues), MacBooks (do any of you remember the whole 'Mooing' thing?!), 27" iMac screen issues... Even the first iPads had wifi problems ffs.

Thus, it's always a more sensible option to wait until they iron the bugs out of all their products.

Sad, but true.

 

[mikeo007]

Try opening up and dissecting an HP or Dell. Brings the lulz.

I can't speak for Dell, but HP is absolute bottom of the barrel, by far the crappiest build quality of any notebook manufacturer. Just truly awful. I'll never buy another.

I can speak for both, having torn all sorts of them down at work. Newer machines are much better than older ones, although HP is still pretty bad. But the quality obviously goes up as the price goes up. Top of the line Dells and even HPs are actually quite well made. The problem is, quality rankings take ALL computers into account. You can be damn well guaranteed that the majority of complaints against Dell for example, do not come from XPS system owners.

 

[haruhiko]

Pretty much every new Apple notebook/iMac generation/revision has problems with the first few batches. Whether it's the first MBP Core Duos (heat, paste issues), MacBooks (do any of you remember the whole 'Mooing' thing?!), 27" iMac screen issues... Even the first iPads had wifi problems ffs.

Thus, it's always a more sensible option to wait until they iron the bugs out of all their products.

Sad, but true.

The iPad Wifi issue had not been fixed until late November (with the release of iOS 4.2.1)

 

[wordoflife]

They're just trying to make a million new MacBooks every minute so they get sloppy.

 

[alphaod]

you know this might not be a problem if these laptops weren't made by idiots in china.

So if Apple sends you the parts and tells you to build one in let's say 30 minutes… could you do it?

 

[billgates99]

you know this might not be a problem if these laptops weren't made by idiots in china.

my understanding is that the average electronics factory worker wage in China ranges from 42 - 64 cents per hour.

Even if it were possible to switch manufacturing to the US, forgetting about the likely collapse of the global economy, can you even conceive of what a ten-fold to 20-fold increase in labor cost would do to the retail pricing of a Mac Book Pro?

 

[314631]

my understanding is that the average electronics factory worker wage in China ranges from 42 - 64 cents per hour.

Even if it were possible to switch manufacturing to the US, forgetting about the likely collapse of the global economy, can you even conceive of what a ten-fold to 20-fold increase in labor cost would do to the retail pricing of a Mac Book Pro?

Apple certainly has big enough margins to manufacture their products in the US without needing to dramatically hike their prices. But obviously shareholders wouldn't like it one bit. And Apple has a legal responsibility to put their shareholders interests above pretty much anything else. So it cannot and will not happen.

It's hardly surprising when you pay and treat people like crap, they don't exactly have a passion for making great products in the name of your company. And problems like the ones described in my opening post creep into the manufacturing process.

For all the good things Apple does in this industry, it still must be pretty miserable working for a publicly traded company. Your ingenuity can only be rewarded by exploiting low paid workers in countries like China. I could never work for Apple in good conscience today. I would have loved to be involved though when this industry was just getting started.

 

[brentsg]

I could never work for Apple in good conscience today. I would have loved to be involved though when this industry was just getting started.

How is working there in some capacity any worse than having a sig full of their products? You could argue that working there you're just another spoke in the wheel but by buying their products you're feeding the machine.

 

[314631]

How is working there in some capacity any different than having a sig full of their products? You could argue that working there you're just another spoke in the wheel but by buying their products you're feeding the machine.

Your point is absolutely true and valid. But there are no realistic alternatives. Take apart a Dell or HP machine (and I do often) and all the parts were manufactured and assembled in factories in China. Even if you buy locally assembled machines (and I do sometimes), the parts themselves all come from China. And I need a lot of computers for our work unfortunately.

I have been cutting back on my personal Apple product purchases though. I went through a crazy phase when I bought a lot of their stuff in a short space of time. iPhone, MacBook Pro, Mac Mini, iMac, my iPod and the AppleTV. I think all of those came in a 6 month period when I was very excited about Apple gear in general. Since then, I have resisted the new iPods, the iPod Touch, the iPhone 4, the iPad etc. I have no interest in buying one of the new MacBook Pros. Or the Mac Minis with HDMI port. And I definitely won't be buying the new iPad. So maybe I have woken up after getting caught up in the initial excitement stemming from the iPhone.

To be honest, I never really thought about all the issues of cheap labor until after I bought most of my Apple products. I'm not proud of that fact. You are absolutely correct that it is people like me that encourage the kind of corporate behavior that goes on. I absolutely have a responsibility to consider whether I want to buy products from a company that makes all its stuff on the cheap in countries like China. And it has had some affect on my purchasing decisions recently at least.

I'm still glad that I have the choice of buying Apple products or not, than having to go to work for them each day to earn a living though. I have always been far happier doing good work for private companies.

 

[Evil Spoonman]

Your point is absolutely true and valid. But there are no realistic alternatives. Take apart a Dell or HP machine (and I do often) and all the parts were manufactured and assembled in factories in China. Even if you buy locally assembled machines (and I do sometimes), the parts themselves all come from China. And I need a lot of computers for our work unfortunately.

I have been cutting back on my personal Apple product purchases though. I went through a crazy phase when I bought a lot of their stuff in a short space of time. iPhone, MacBook Pro, Mac Mini, iMac, my iPod and the AppleTV. I think all of those came in a 6 month period when I was very excited about Apple gear in general. Since then, I have resisted the new iPods, the iPod Touch, the iPhone 4, the iPad etc. I have no interest in buying one of the new MacBook Pros. Or the Mac Minis with HDMI port. And I definitely won't be buying the new iPad. So maybe I have woken up after getting caught up in the initial excitement stemming from the iPhone.

To be honest, I never really thought about all the issues of cheap labor until after I bought most of my Apple products. I'm not proud of that fact. You are absolutely correct that it is people like me that encourage the kind of corporate behavior that goes on. I absolutely have a responsibility to consider whether I want to buy products from a company that makes all its stuff on the cheap in countries like China. And it has had some affect on my purchasing decisions recently at least.

I'm still glad that I have the choice of buying Apple products or not, than having to go to work for them each day to earn a living though. I have always been far happier doing good work for private companies.

I'd like to point out that while Apple is definitely culpable in this. It is not the worst, in fact it might be the best. Apple's efforts to improve work conditions, wages, and heavily audit its suppliers are not fabrications.

Just throwing it out there.

 

[AlBDamned]

Even if it were possible to switch manufacturing to the US.... can you even conceive of what a ten-fold to 20-fold increase in labor cost would do to the retail pricing of a Mac Book Pro?

Apple certainly has big enough margins to manufacture their products in the US without needing to dramatically hike their prices. But obviously shareholders wouldn't like it one bit. And Apple has a legal responsibility to put their shareholders interests above pretty much anything else. So it cannot and will not happen.

There was a really good report recently that highlighted Apple as an example of how this could actually be done - on numbers anyway. Not only would it be great for employment, but if more companies began doing this, the trade deficit (import) with China would obviously reduce, and effectively plough more money into the US economy. Win-Win for US.

The example used was an iPhone, which costs around $6 in labour to assemble in China (around $160-180 in parts I think). US labour costs are around 10x more, so that would make the cost to produce it around $60.

However, it's anticipated that Apple could refine this figure and absorb the cost, and get significant tax breaks were they to manufacture in the US. I would also happily pay a little more if I knew the products weren't made in a posh sweatshop.

Long term, the Chinese population's rapidly increasing standard of living, the [relative] malaise of the US economy and, very long term, China taking over the world and hoarding their own resources (while the rest of the world sells them their's for cheap) is going to make the concept of bringing manufacturing back to the US much more viable and actually desirable, but it still won't be easy.

One issue for Apple specifically is you can imagine how hard it would be to keep secrets in the US, given the 1 million employees would not be fenced in in their compound.

Personally I would like to see Apple invest some of the $60 billion in cash it holds into doing something significant like bringing manufacturing home. A massive corporate initiative, and thinking of home first would be a brilliant way to breath some life back into the US as a country, and as an economy.

 

[DudeMartin]

I don't know ... my 13" acts, looks, and feels very solid and well-put-together.

 

[7even]

Every generation has a few bad units... anyone remember the yellowing screens from the Santa Rosa era (and probably beyond)? Or the screen-flashing-black on the 1st gen Unibodies?

I swear a few threads like this pop up at the release of every new generation

 

[d0vr]

Having just brought my first MBP, I got to thinking.. I used to think that apple was simply the best of the best, but I'm not sure any more. The more I read and the more people I talk to, it does seem like I'm paying a lot more than I should for what I'm getting.

Don't get me wrong, I'll pay a premium for a premium product any day. It's always worth it. But if I can get similar for a lot less....

Anyway, I think the standards are going down. Apple isn't the revolutionary company it used to be any more.. it just seems to be ok keeping up with the rest of the world.

But you know what I think the reason for the standards going down? Idiot fanboys. I still like apple and will for a while, but stupid fanboys who defend apple no matter what. If they shut up and actually told apple they weren't happy with the average performance they're giving with the same amount of effort they use to tell anyone who has anything negative to say about apple.. well who knows we might start getting the best of the best in the world from apple again.

Stop putting up with apples mediocrity and demand the best boys (and fan girls).

I trust the salesman who's willing to point out the flaws in a product and tell me what a product can't do rather than the salesman who will only talk about the positives and who's main argument is "everything else just sucks ok?"

 

[haruhiko]

Having just brought my first MBP, I got to thinking.. I used to think that apple was simply the best of the best, but I'm not sure any more. The more I read and the more people I talk to, it does seem like I'm paying a lot more than I should for what I'm getting.

Don't get me wrong, I'll pay a premium for a premium product any day. It's always worth it. But if I can get similar for a lot less....

Anyway, I think the standards are going down. Apple isn't the revolutionary company it used to be any more.. it just seems to be ok keeping up with the rest of the world.

But you know what I think the reason for the standards going down? Idiot fanboys. I still like apple and will for a while, but stupid fanboys who defend apple no matter what. If they shut up and actually told apple they weren't happy with the average performance they're giving with the same amount of effort they use to tell anyone who has anything negative to say about apple.. well who knows we might start getting the best of the best in the world from apple again.

Stop putting up with apples mediocrity and demand the best boys (and fan girls).

I trust the salesman who's willing to point out the flaws in a product and tell me what a product can't do rather than the salesman who will only talk about the positives and who's main argument is "everything else just sucks ok?"

When you ask for a question here, for example, your CPU turns to >90C, someone will always tell you it's more than normal while it's not.

 

[d0vr]

When you ask for a question here, for example, your CPU turns to >90C, someone will always tell you it's more than normal while it's not.

Yup, that's why questions like that I don't ask here. I'd rather not here the fanboy answer. I want to hear the real world answer. There are few peoples/sites who I listen to and even then I won't take just one answer.

 

[Erasmus]

Long term, the Chinese population's rapidly increasing standard of living, the [relative] malaise of the US economy and, very long term, China taking over the world and hoarding their own resources (while the rest of the world sells them their's for cheap) is going to make the concept of bringing manufacturing back to the US much more viable and actually desirable, but it still won't be easy.

So, basically, what you're saying is that China should be prevented at all costs from doing what the USA has been doing for decades? Perhaps the US should stop hoarding their own oil, and sell it to the world?

If Chinese people are willing to work for stupidly low pay to help strengthen their own country, you have to respect that. If you don't like that Chinese workers are paid almost nothing to work, then more jobs should be sent to China, so job positions have to start competing for employees, like they do in 1st world countries.

 

[FireSokar]

Just bought the 15 inch 2199$ model and I was relieved to find no dead pixels. Upon further inspection the finishing near the power button and on the corners appeared worn. I would normally throw a fit but have given up My macbok pro came with these marks and will be their in 6 months. If I bought an plastic laptop I would have 10x as many marks in 6 months.

 

[AlBDamned]

So, basically, what you're saying is that China should be prevented at all costs from doing what the USA has been doing for decades? Perhaps the US should stop hoarding their own oil, and sell it to the world?

If Chinese people are willing to work for stupidly low pay to help strengthen their own country, you have to respect that. If you don't like that Chinese workers are paid almost nothing to work, then more jobs should be sent to China, so job positions have to start competing for employees, like they do in 1st world countries.

No that's not what I'm saying, but this is probs not the best part of the forum to get into this discussion...

 

[MacBookPro13"]

This is nothing new to me.. I think that Apple's quality control has been going downhill for a few years now. It's always a bit of a lottery, especially with the first batches of products (weird glitches, high pitch noises, dirt and scratches straight out of the box etc.), but I would still never go back to Windows because I prefer Mac OS X. Let's gamble!

Pretty much all of what this guy said..