Refurb vs new

[M5RahuL]

In my experience thus far, Apple Refurb = New, or just as good.

 

[thiagoah]

My brother has been using his refurb rMBP for a about 4 months, absolutely no problems whatsoever. I remember when he took it out of the box it was in BRAND NEW condition. Absolutely no difference between a brand new one and refurb except for the discount price of course.

 

[GGJstudios]

I'll say it again as the point seems to be being missed. The new 2014 Macbook will come with 3 years warranty at no extra cost. This is part of the educational deal here in the UK. The refurb will only come with a 1 year warranty.

That 3 year warranty is only available in the UK. All new Macs in the US come with a 1 year warranty, not 3 years.

 

[tagy]

So in other words nether side can really conclusively prove their point...

True.

I had one refurb a few years ago and it was as new as far as I could tell. I would not hesitate to get another refurb from Apple. Is the failure rate slightly higher? maybe, maybe not.

 

[diggy33]

Get the refurb. As for me, I dont have any studies to refer to, but the 3 machines that I've purchased from the Apple refurb store (all MacBook Airs) were flawless and presented no problems at purchase, or since.

 

[Mike P]

That 3 year warranty is only available in the UK. All new Macs in the US come with a 1 year warranty, not 3 years.

Yes, and the OP is clearly in the UK as he is quoting prices in GBP Sterling.

 

[MattZani]

As said, the new machine will come with a 3 year AppleCare (the uplift is phone support) which is more than the price difference, so the newer machine is the better purchase.

 

[Sheza]

Hi guys,

I'm playing with the idea of getting a refurb retina 13 inch 8/256 with education discount. Configured with the apple are uplift, that costs £1030. On the refurb store, the late 2013 model costs £929. Is it worth saving an extra £100? Also if anyone has knowledge of the educational apple care uplift, can this be applied at a later date in the first year to the refurb mac, like the standard apple care, or only on the purchase of a new mac? I only ask as you can purchase it separately from the online store. Wish I could just get away with the base model with 128GB as it would be much cheaper at £859!

So basically:

2.4/8/256 refurb for £929
OR
2.6/8/256 new for £1030 with edu discount.

Thanks!

Hi, could you explain the education discount to me? Best I could find is the base model for £940 new. The 256GB for just £1030 sounds amazing, do you need to specify an institution to see those prices?

EDIT: Sorted it myself, thanks. If you're on the Uni network the discounts are even greater than the standard UK edu store. This is a huge revelation to me hahah. £860 for the Entry 13" is incredible. And it comes with 3 years of hardware support as well right - is this like the sort you would get from Apple Care i.e. hardware replacements and repairs provided it's not from wear and tear or accidental damage?

Sorry for the slight thread derail.

 

[SarcasticJoe]

I'm not going to spoon-feed you the facts that I and many others in this forum already know. You'll have to do your own homework if you really want the facts.

Spoon feed me? I already declared your "facts" anecdotal and thus no good in an actual discussion.

Apple products are covered by Apple's own warranties. I wouldn't trust any data from such a company, who doesn't perform Apple-authorized repairs.

They may not perform repairs themselves, but they do forward people to authorized repair centers and pick up the tab. Apple sure as hell aren't going to open up their data and that kind of data is literally the only really valid date you can have.

No, I put trust in the legal system and the fact that all Apple refurbs are covered by warranty. Yes, they do perform rigorous testing, but just like new machines, refurbs can be defective from time to time. That's why the buyer is protected by the full warranty.

Consumer protection law only states that they need to fix products that have failed on their own within a certain (reasonable) period of purchase, not that they aren't allowed to sell unreliable machines. Don't try to dress up your blind trust in Apple as something else.

Nonsense. They offer the same warranty as new machines and the extended warranty (AppleCare) is available on refurbs just like new machines, if the buyer wants it. In other words, they trust refurbs exactly as much as they trust new Macs.

Again with the "Apple can do no bad - Apple can do no bad - Apple can do no bad"-talk? Do you really think they're not smart enough to realize that people would get suspicious if they didn't offer Applecare for refurbished machines even when the reason for that is a higher failure rate?

That's just incredibly naive and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if someone like you gets constantly scammed.

The problem is that the assumption of a higher failure rate for refurbs is a assumption based on no reliable facts.

Kind of ironic thing to say when you're claiming the opposite and haven't been able to present any valid data ether...

 

[GoneDrinkin]

Getting a 2013 13" 8/256 refurb soon.

Great to hear the positive feedback regarding them too!

There's no real difference between the 2013 and 14 models anyway, so I'm happy with my choice.

 

[T5BRICK]

If the warranties are the same, like they are in the US, I'd go with the refurb. There is no difinitive evidence that there is a difference in reliability between the two.

BUT

Since you're in the UK and you get an extra 2 years of hardware warranty on the new one, I'd go that route.

 

[GGJstudios]

Spoon feed me? I already declared your "facts" anecdotal and thus no good in an actual discussion.

Regardless of what you "declare", the facts stated by thousands of refurb buyers, including the majority in this thread, carries more weight than your baseless claims.

Consumer protection law only states that they need to fix products that have failed on their own within a certain (reasonable) period of purchase, not that they aren't allowed to sell unreliable machines.

Are you really so naive as to think if Apple were selling unreliable machines that there wouldn't be a public outcry and news articles about it? Apple profits by maintaining a reputation for selling quality computers. They're not foolish enough to jeopardize that by selling unreliable computers with a high failure rate. You don't have to believe Apple can do no wrong, or believe that they're "good guys" to understand that; it only takes some common sense and a basic understanding of successful business practices.

That's just incredibly naive and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if someone like you gets constantly scammed.

I'm never scammed, because I get facts before making a buying decision. I've bought several Apple refurbished products over the years and they've all worked perfectly, including some for 6+ years. All your blowing smoke about failure rates is a failure in itself, because the real-life experiences of refurb buyers proves otherwise.

 

[SarcasticJoe]

Regardless of what you "declare", the facts stated by thousands of refurb buyers, including the majority in this thread, carries more weight than your baseless claims.

I once again have to point out that your "thousands of refurb buyers" are noting but anecdotes and anecdotes don't constitute any proper evidence...

Are you really so naive as to think if Apple were selling unreliable machines that there wouldn't be a public outcry and news articles about it? Apple profits by maintaining a reputation for selling quality computers. They're not foolish enough to jeopardize that by selling unreliable computers with a high failure rate. You don't have to believe Apple can do no wrong, or believe that they're "good guys" to understand that; it only takes some common sense and a basic understanding of successful business practices.

There again comes the black-and-white thinking that lower reliability always means it's catastrophically bad... A relative reliability increase in 50-100% is still just a few percent in total and not something you'd be able to catch onto, specially when people don't expect as much from a machine built from scraps. Just look at that one guy from last page who was perfectly satisfied with his refurb machine despite he'd had the screen replaced once and the motherboard twice all in the first year.

I'm never scammed, because I get facts before making a buying decision.

Well obviously you don't considering your denial of the fact that refurb machines are part repaired machines and part just built from scraps of broken down machines...

I've bought several Apple refurbished products over the years and they've all worked perfectly, including some for 6+ years. All your blowing smoke about failure rates is a failure in itself, because the real-life experiences of refurb buyers proves otherwise.

Like I said, anecdotal evidence is no good in an argument of any standards. Sure, it may be enough in a schoolyard argument about what videogame console is the best, but not when adults are talking.

 

[GGJstudios]

I once again have to point out that your "thousands of refurb buyers" are noting but anecdotes and anecdotes don't constitute any proper evidence...

That "anectodal evidence" is a larger sample than anything you've presented, and therefore is far more trustworthy than one person claiming "I read a report some time ago by a company who sells warranties", especially when they can't even provide proof of that.

Well obviously you don't considering your denial of the fact that refurb machines are part repaired machines and part just built from scraps of broken down machines...

You have absolutely zero evidence that even a single refurbished Mac was "built from scraps of broken down machines". Apple clearly states how the refurbishment process works, which does not involve building machines at all, but rather replacing defective parts (if any) of an already built and otherwise fully functional Mac. Unless you can prove your obviously false and invented claims, stop posting lies in the forum, trying to mislead buyers.

You haven't provided a single shred of evidence to back your baseless claims, and yet, just in this thread alone, many have reported positive experiences in buying refurbs, just as in countless other threads.

There has been enough factual information provided refuting your claims that anyone who reads this thread should know better than to pay attention to your posts. It's now obvious you want to argue for the sake of arguing, even though all the evidence stands in opposition to your claims.

 

[SarcasticJoe]

That "anectodal evidence" is a larger sample than anything you've presented, and therefore is far more trustworthy than one person claiming "I read a report some time ago by a company who sells warranties", especially when they can't even provide proof of that.

No matter how you try to dress it, all you have is anecdotal evidence and it's just as valid as what I've come up with so far.

Just pointing to that one guy on the previous page who has had the screen replaced once and motherboard twice all in one year on his refurbished machine carries the same amount of weight as everything you've come up with so far. That's how little weight anecdotal "evidence" carries.

You have absolutely zero evidence that even a single refurbished Mac was "built from scraps of broken down machines".

It's a well known industry fact that "refurbished" generally means fixed devices from the company scrap heap.

Apple clearly states how the refurbishment process works, which does not involve building machines at all, but rather replacing defective parts (if any) of an already built and otherwise fully functional Mac. Unless you can prove your obviously false and invented claims, stop posting lies in the forum, trying to mislead buyers.

They don't deny that at all, they just state that some machines are just fixed broken down machines. Do you really think all the spare parts they use come fresh off the assembly line when they've got a treasure trove of second hand spare parts? When they replace a broken motherboard with one from a machine with a broken screen or defective battery it is creating a "frankenstein" machine. At no point did I see them denying that they may cannibalize other machines in the scrap heap for spare parts.

You haven't provided a single shred of evidence to back your baseless claims, and yet, just in this thread alone, many have reported positive experiences in buying refurbs, just as in countless other threads.

There has been enough factual information provided refuting your claims that anyone who reads this thread should know better than to pay attention to your posts. It's now obvious you want to argue for the sake of arguing, even though all the evidence stands in opposition to your claims.

Are you even reading my posts? How many times do I have to tell you that anecdotal evidence is NO GOOD. It does not give a proper picture and is easily manipulated.

I can clearly see the way you think from your posts. Apple intentionally leaves some descriptions more than a bit lacking in details and with your "Apple can do no bad"-thinking you go in and fill these intentionally left in blanks with something that adheres to your view of Apple.

You're like the people who fell for McDonalds' comeback about the McNuggets being made from that awful looking pink goop. What McDonalds did was they showed pictures from the factory for where they make the McNuggets for the Canadian market. The funny thing is that it's illegal to sell anything made for human consumption made out of that pink goop in Canada, so of course the Canadian plant isn't going to have them making McNuggets from the pink goop. Most people probably didn't even get as far as realizing that it was a Canadian, not an American, factory.

 

[AppleFanatic10]

From what I've heard refurb machines have a higher failure rate as they're mostly built out of parts from machines that were sent in for service and their owners ended up getting a refund or a new machine.

Don't get me wrong, a higher rate does not mean every refurb machine is going to break down, just that they're more likely.

I've only had one issue with my refurb MB that I bought a little less than 4 years ago... it had a weird logic board problem that apple fixed 2 years ago (under applecare). I honestly haven't had any problems since. Like the previous poster said, you still get the 1 year applecare warranty and if you want (and probably should just in case), you can add an additional 2 years of applecare warranty to the refurb too. So, in my opinion, there's nothing really wrong with refurbs except you don't get the fancy box that comes with brand new macs.

 

[tagy]

So basically nobody here knows exactly how Apple gets its refurbs, and nobody knows if the failure rate is higher or lower..

 

[T5BRICK]

It's a well known industry fact that "refurbished" generally means fixed devices from the company scrap heap.

Refurbished has a lot of different meanings. There is no "industry fact."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refurbishment_(electronics)

They don't deny that at all, they just state that some machines are just fixed broken down machines. Do you really think all the spare parts they use come fresh off the assembly line when they've got a treasure trove of second hand spare parts? When they replace a broken motherboard with one from a machine with a broken screen or defective battery it is creating a "frankenstein" machine. At no point did I see them denying that they may cannibalize other machines in the scrap heap for spare parts.

Defective parts can be be repaired, and they aren't literally in a scrap heap. ESD is a major concern. Each individual part is tested, bagged and tagged. The good parts are reused and the bad parts are repaired and reused or scrapped.

Are you even reading my posts? How many times do I have to tell you that anecdotal evidence is NO GOOD. It does not give a proper picture and is easily manipulated.

You guys have been going back and forth for a while now and you still haven't provided any evidence aside from "I read an article somewhere a long time ago that I can't find."

Nobody is going to change anyone else's mind here.

----------

So basically nobody here knows exactly how Apple gets its refurbs, and nobody knows if the failure rate is higher or lower..

This is correct.

Apple provides the same warranty on refurbs as they do on new units. You can infer that they are about the same when it comes to reliability because of this.

 

[ourmountain]

*insert endless, idiotic blathering here*

You're literally being obnoxious for the sake of it.

I don't know if you got molested by a refurbished MacBook or what, but your complex might just require therapy. From what I can tell, you've spent at least a couple hours of your time rambling on in this thread over something that's beyond idiotic. Why do you even care? What benefit is it to you to convince people who own refurb Macs that they're not as good as new ones?

As a happy refurb owner, I couldn't care less what your opinion of them is, nor will I sit and waste my time trying to change your clearly biased opinion. It's not my problem or concern. That being said, I have no problem pointing out just how foolish it is for you to sit and waste your time bickering over the quality of something you don't own, and clearly never will own.

Grow up, and find a hobby.

 

[GGJstudios]

No matter how you try to dress it, all you have is anecdotal evidence and it's just as valid as what I've come up with so far.

The anecdotal evidence that you dismiss is presented by users who have actual experience buying and using refurbished Macs. The vast majority of those refute your individual baseless claims about refurbs. If you want to reduce it to opinion, the opinion of hundreds or thousands of refurb buyers outweighs your sole opinion, especially since you haven't presented anything but unsubstantiated claims with no documented facts to back them up. The experience of refurb buyers who have posted in this thread alone provide more documentation than you have provided.

Just pointing to that one guy on the previous page who has had the screen replaced once and motherboard twice all in one year on his refurbished machine carries the same amount of weight as everything you've come up with so far. That's how little weight anecdotal "evidence" carries.

Since you have no documentation whatsoever, just take this thread alone. The refurb buyers who have had no problems greatly outnumber those who have had a problem, and ALL refurbs were covered by warranty.

It's a well known industry fact that "refurbished" generally means fixed devices from the company scrap heap.

Again, you "invent" "facts". That is not the industry definition of a refurb, and it's certainly not Apple's.

It is clear you have a bias against Apple and its products and your posting indicates a desire to influence others to share your bias. Well, it won't work, since the collective experiences of millions of Apple customers refute your unsubstantiated claims. You may be able to convince one or two to believe Apple refurbs are a bad bet, but anyone with some common sense, basic reading comprehension and elementary reasoning skills will see right through your posts and know to ignore them. There has been enough posted in this thread by others that the likelihood of anyone being misled by the misinformation you have posted is very slim. Our work is done, as evidenced by this post:

As a happy refurb owner, I couldn't care less what your opinion of them is, nor will I sit and waste my time trying to change your clearly biased opinion. It's not my problem or concern.

 

[SarcasticJoe]

I've only had one issue with my refurb MB that I bought a little less than 4 years ago... it had a weird logic board problem that apple fixed 2 years ago (under applecare). So, in my opinion, there's nothing really wrong with refurbs except you don't get the fancy box that comes with brand new macs.

This exactly what I mean when I say that you shouldn't trust anecdotal evidence on refurbs as the people who own them have seriously lower standards. You had a refurb machine break down on you, but unlike someone who had bought their machine new, you're not complaining.

Refurbished has a lot of different meanings. There is no "industry fact."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refurbishment_(electronics)

The fact the definition also covers second hand machines that have been given a checkup and not just passed forward Wallmart style doesn't mean that Apple is going to do things with the best case scenario. You're pretty much being completely naive here.

Defective parts can be be repaired, and they aren't literally in a scrap heap. ESD is a major concern. Each individual part is tested, bagged and tagged. The good parts are reused and the bad parts are repaired and reused or scrapped.

Trying to move the goal posts are we? I never claimed that they don't test the parts that come off the scrap heap, just pointed out that seeing how they have a history of not being able to detect all defective parts when they're ticking time bombs rather than already broken (say hello to the Nvidia 8600GT problem and "radeongate"). Thus you shouldn't blindly trust their claims of the machines being as good or better than new.

Apple provides the same warranty on refurbs as they do on new units. You can infer that they are about the same when it comes to reliability because of this.

There's no such thing as a correlation between length of warranty and reliability!

Sure there are some companies with substandard reliability that offer long warranties (Seagate springs to mind), but there are also companies that hand out long warranties just because of how reliable their products are (Cisco network hardware with it's lifetime warranty springs to mind).

APPLE CAN DO NO BAD!!! APPLE CAN DO NO BAD!!! ALL HAIL STEVE JOBS, OUR LORD AND MASTER!!!

I suppose trying to convince people of anything negative of Apple on an Apple fanboy forum is an exercise in futility even when it's something as minor as "Refurbs may not be AS good a deal as you make it out to be"...

The anecdotal evidence that you dismiss is presented by users who have actual experience buying and using refurbished Macs. The vast majority of those refute your individual baseless claims about refurbs. If you want to reduce it to opinion, the opinion of hundreds or thousands of refurb buyers outweighs your sole opinion, especially since you haven't presented anything but unsubstantiated claims with no documented facts to back them up. The experience of refurb buyers who have posted in this thread alone provide more documentation than you have provided.

Anecdotal evidence, no matter how you try to present it, is still anecdotal evidence and no good in a discussion between adults.

Since you have no documentation whatsoever, just take this thread alone. The refurb buyers who have had no problems greatly outnumber those who have had a problem, and ALL refurbs were covered by warranty.

First of all, the sample you're using is way too small to be of any significance. Second of all, this is an Apple fanboy forum and it's obvious that fanboys are less likely to complain, both of the people in this thread who have bought refurbished machines that have failed on them have still said that they're satisfied, even the guy with 3 major component failures is satisfied.

Third of all, how hard can it be to understand that everything is not black and white? The fact that something is worse than something else does NOT automatically mean it's bad. I already explained, with numbers and basic math, how a even a considerable relative increase in failure rates can still only be a moderate increase in the total failure rate.

It is clear you have a bias against Apple and its products and your posting indicates a desire to influence others to share your bias.

If I was biased against Apple I wouldn't be writing this on a mac. I sure as hell wouldn't have bought any computers other than Macbook Pro's since 2007 (on my third one right now) or bought my mother one when she needed a new computer in 2009.

Again, you "invent" "facts". That is not the industry definition of a refurb, and it's certainly not Apple's.

Well, it won't work, since the collective experiences of millions of Apple customers refute your unsubstantiated claims.

Look kids! It's the pot calling the kettle black!

You may be able to convince one or two to believe Apple refurbs are a bad bet, but anyone with some common sense, basic reading comprehension and elementary reasoning skills will see right through your posts and know to ignore them. There has been enough posted in this thread by others that the likelihood of anyone being misled by the misinformation you have posted is very slim. Our work is done, as evidenced by this post:

I've been warned about you in a PM after I started this argument with you... It basically said that you never admit defeat or that you can't prove point and in the case you genuinely lose the argument, you try to keep the argument going by sidetracking it until the other party gets tired of arguing with you and you claim victory.

I judging by your refusal to even consider that refurbs may have higher failure rate trough trying to make it look like I'm saying that refurbs are catastrophically bad (which I've refuted several times already), it does seem like the person knows what they're talking about.

 

[lparsons21]

What is an exercise in futility is thinking that your 'report you cannot find' is anymore valid than the very many anecdotal reports from actual refurb buyers.



Personally after reading this whole thread, I'm thinking that the reason you cannot find this elusive report is that it exists only in your mind.



Refurbs from Apple carry the full new warranty and are legible for Applecare.



OTOH, most other mfgs only offer 30-90 day warranties and no extended ones.



So yes, Apple and the refurb buyers actually do think Apple does it right. Perfect? No, but very much better than almost anyone else.]

 

[T5BRICK]

The fact the definition also covers second hand machines that have been given a checkup and not just passed forward Wallmart style doesn't mean that Apple is going to do things with the best case scenario. You're pretty much being completely naive here.

You still have no facts to back up your claims other than this article you've read. At this point I'm thinking it's just a figment of your imagination.

Apple actually states what their refurbishing process involves. Comparing this to Walmart reselling returned products is ridiculous.

Trying to move the goal posts are we? I never claimed that they don't test the parts that come off the scrap heap, just pointed out that seeing how they have a history of not being able to detect all defective parts when they're ticking time bombs rather than already broken (say hello to the Nvidia 8600GT problem and "radeongate"). Thus you shouldn't blindly trust their claims of the machines being as good or better than new.

No, I said that Apple doesn't have a literal scrap heap(which you repeatedly state). Your expectation that they find all defects is actually impossible. Some latent defects aren't detectable until later in the life of a product. Keep in mind that all those bad 8600GT and AMD chips also failed in new computers.

There's no such thing as a correlation between length of warranty and reliability!

Sure there are some companies with substandard reliability that offer long warranties (Seagate springs to mind), but there are also companies that hand out long warranties just because of how reliable their products are (Cisco network hardware with it's lifetime warranty springs to mind).

Which makes me wonder why you suggested that Apple provide a longer warranty on refurbs. It isn't necessary.

I suppose trying to convince people of anything negative of Apple on an Apple fanboy forum is an exercise in futility even when it's something as minor as "Refurbs may not be AS good a deal as you make it out to be"...

It's really only an issue when someone makes up baseless claims and doesn't offer up any proof to back up their arguments.

----------

I've been warned about you in a PM after I started this argument with you... It basically said that you never admit defeat or that you can't prove point and in the case you genuinely lose the argument, you try to keep the argument going by sidetracking it until the other party gets tired of arguing with you and you claim victory.

Umm...

Look kids! It's the pot calling the kettle black!

You still haven't backed up any of your claims with actual proof.

 

[SarcasticJoe]

You still have no facts to back up your claims other than this article you've read. At this point I'm thinking it's just a figment of your imagination.

As you still don't seem to get it, I'm not claiming victory, I'm just claiming a draw in the form of nether side being able to conclusively being able to prove their point. Nether side can seem find any compiled data on refurbished vs new reliability and thus the whole argument is somewhat pointless.

I'm trying to find that survey I read back in 2007, but all I get is people just asking for that data and reliability statistics on Apple's machines on the whole...

Apple actually states what their refurbishing process involves. Comparing this to Walmart reselling returned products is ridiculous.

You really need to re-read that part... I was specifically pointing out that Apple does NOT put returned devices on the shelf as new without even checking the contents of the box.

No, I said that Apple doesn't have a literal scrap heap(which you repeatedly state).

Of course I don't mean a LITERAL scrap heap or a pile of broken machines. You'd expect adults to be able to realize that. Most probably they just ship the machines to some warehouse, check what can be salvaged, catalog everything and put them in storage until they decide how to fix it or re-use it's parts. Another way of describing it would be to call it a breaker's yard for computers except not in the open or really dirty.

Your expectation that they find all defects is actually impossible. Some latent defects aren't detectable until later in the life of a product. Keep in mind that all those bad 8600GT and AMD chips also failed in new computers.

I don't expect them to catch everything, I specifically expect them to miss things that are slightly harder to catch. The point is that if they can't reliably detect the faults in those Nvidia and AMD chips in ether new and refurbished machines, there's probably a lot more that can't detect.

You still haven't backed up any of your claims with actual proof.

I've acknowledged this multiple times and the point I've been trying to practically hammer into your skulls is that you haven't been able to bring up any inadmissible proof ether.

 

[GGJstudios]

I've acknowledged this multiple times and the point I've been trying to practically hammer into your skulls is that you haven't been able to bring up any inadmissible proof ether.

Proof:

I bought a refurb Macbook like... 5 years ago, and it was perfect, and I'm typing this on my refurb rMBP 13 /8 / 256 that arrived 2 days ago, and it's also just perfect. Seriously, other than a worse unboxing experience, everything is indistinguishable from brand new. I've read SO many recounts of people who bought refurb, and they're always great. Seriously, just get a refurb.

Proof:

My brother has been using his refurb rMBP for a about 4 months, absolutely no problems whatsoever. I remember when he took it out of the box it was in BRAND NEW condition. Absolutely no difference between a brand new one and refurb except for the discount price of course.

Proof:

I had one refurb a few years ago and it was as new as far as I could tell. I would not hesitate to get another refurb from Apple.

Proof:

the 3 machines that I've purchased from the Apple refurb store (all MacBook Airs) were flawless and presented no problems at purchase, or since.

And those are just from this thread, alone. There are countless other such reports from buyers, which carry more weight than anything one person with no documentation can say.

Your turn to provide some proof of your claims. Any proof? Any?