Removing hard drive from one 9600 and putting it in another?

mac not my fault

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jan 23, 2019
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0
First of all, my G3 is no longer working. It was till yesterday. When the boot is done the cursor freezes. I would still like to get it working. I have a Post on that.

I have all my art files, that I make a living with, in the broken G3, so I would like to remove the memory from that G3 and put it in another one I have that works.

I've never seen the inside of any Mac.

How do I do this without braking my working G3?

HELP!!

[Mod note: Thread title was originally "Removing memory from one G3 and putting it in another G3?". I've updated the title but have otherwise not touched the post.]
 
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Longkeg

macrumors 6502
Jul 18, 2014
295
107
S. Florida
I've never seen the inside of any Mac
Yeah...... then you probably shouldn’t be learning your way around your Mac’s insides when critical files are at stake. Does your Mac, I assume it’s an old machine if it’s a G3, have FireWire ports? If you can start it up in Target Disk Mode you could connect it to the other Mac with a Fire Wire cable (you didn’t specify what model your working Mac was but it will need Fire Wire too) and copy the files to the working machine.
 

mac not my fault

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jan 23, 2019
16
0
You mean you'd like to take the hard drive out and connect it to another.

What type of G3 Macs are you talking about?
It's the Beige 9600. Both are.
[doublepost=1549036886][/doublepost]
Yeah...... then you probably shouldn’t be learning your way around your Mac’s insides when critical files are at stake. Does your Mac, I assume it’s an old machine if it’s a G3, have FireWire ports? If you can start it up in Target Disk Mode you could connect it to the other Mac with a Fire Wire cable (you didn’t specify what model your working Mac was but it will need Fire Wire too) and copy the files to the working machine.
I cannot get at my files now.

I can use ZIPs to transfer files if I can get the thing working.

I'd rather swap the memory cards or whatever they are called.

This beige 9600 probably doesn't have Target Disc Mode?

How do I find out with loosing my files?
 

BrianBaughn

macrumors 603
Feb 13, 2011
6,365
938
Baltimore, Maryland
A Power Mac 9600 is not the same thing as a Power Mac G3. The PM9600 has a hard drive with a SCSI connection and I'm pretty sure the G3 has one with a IDE/ATA-2 connection.

No matter which one it is I'm not sure how, assuming the hard drive isn't dead, you'd get the files off of it and onto the other one.
 

Longkeg

macrumors 6502
Jul 18, 2014
295
107
S. Florida
Your files live on the hard drive. That same hard drive also contains the operating system that runs the computer. There’s a chance that corrupted data on the hard drive is what’s preventing your Mac from starting up. You don’t want to put this in a working computer since a damaged operating system will just repeat the same errors you observe in the original machine.

Please understand: This computer belongs in a museum. The odds of you recovering files from a 22 year old computer... (is it the original hard drive!?)... are indeed long. But you have to try, right? So here’s what you do. Study this web page:

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Power+Macintosh+8600(250)+Teardown/3093

It’s for an 8200 but it’s similar enough to your 9600 that you should be able to figure it out. A good thing about these old Mac towers is they were very easy to work on. Follow all the steps until you get to the part where you remove the hard drive. Remove the hard drive then go buy one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/Generic-Adapter-Converter-Optical-External/dp/B002OV1VJW

Read the directions, hook it up to the removed hard drive and plug the USB end of the cable into a modern Mac. A PC won’t be able to read the Mac formatted drive. If the drive mounts you’ll be able to look for your files and copy them to a thumb drive. If it doesn’t mount... well, like my mother used to say, “ too bad, so sad...”

Good luck.
[doublepost=1549085774][/doublepost]I have to say... After reviewing you other posts....

First your blue & white G3 dies. Then your beige G3 seems to morph into a PM9600...

Maybe it’s time to upgrade.
 

mac not my fault

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jan 23, 2019
16
0
A Power Mac 9600 is not the same thing as a Power Mac G3. The PM9600 has a hard drive with a SCSI connection and I'm pretty sure the G3 has one with a IDE/ATA-2 connection.

No matter which one it is I'm not sure how, assuming the hard drive isn't dead, you'd get the files off of it and onto the other one.

Brian,

My mistake. NOT G3's. I've changed my mind about that.

I have two beige 9600 Macs. I'd like to remove the files from one and put them in another because one won't work any longer.

The one that doesn't work boots fine, right to the end, but at the end of the boot the cursor freezes.



At the moment I have no G3, blue and white that needs work. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Thank you for the reply

C
[doublepost=1549126887][/doublepost]
Your files live on the hard drive. That same hard drive also contains the operating system that runs the computer. There’s a chance that corrupted data on the hard drive is what’s preventing your Mac from starting up. You don’t want to put this in a working computer since a damaged operating system will just repeat the same errors you observe in the original machine.

Please understand: This computer belongs in a museum. The odds of you recovering files from a 22 year old computer... (is it the original hard drive!?)... are indeed long. But you have to try, right? So here’s what you do. Study this web page:

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Power+Macintosh+8600(250)+Teardown/3093

It’s for an 8200 but it’s similar enough to your 9600 that you should be able to figure it out. A good thing about these old Mac towers is they were very easy to work on. Follow all the steps until you get to the part where you remove the hard drive. Remove the hard drive then go buy one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/Generic-Adapter-Converter-Optical-External/dp/B002OV1VJW

Read the directions, hook it up to the removed hard drive and plug the USB end of the cable into a modern Mac. A PC won’t be able to read the Mac formatted drive. If the drive mounts you’ll be able to look for your files and copy them to a thumb drive. If it doesn’t mount... well, like my mother used to say, “ too bad, so sad...”

Good luck.
[doublepost=1549085774][/doublepost]I have to say... After reviewing you other posts....

First your blue & white G3 dies. Then your beige G3 seems to morph into a PM9600...

Maybe it’s time to upgrade.
Yes, I'm thinking a G4 Quicksilver. But I still need to put my files in it.

Thanks for the info.

What is the PRAM battery?

I've never replaced it. Should I?

C
 

BrianBaughn

macrumors 603
Feb 13, 2011
6,365
938
Baltimore, Maryland
The PowerMac 9600 has an external DB-25 SCSI port. I think what needs to be figured out here is how to get the hard drive out of the machine that won’t boot (shouldn’t be too hard) and get it connected to the DB-25 SCSI port on the working machine.
 

mac not my fault

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jan 23, 2019
16
0
The PowerMac 9600 has an external DB-25 SCSI port. I think what needs to be figured out here is how to get the hard drive out of the machine that won’t boot (shouldn’t be too hard) and get it connected to the DB-25 SCSI port on the working machine.
Maybe I'm not explaining myself correctly.

One 9600 BOOTS UP fine. Until the very end, then the cursor becomes frozen. Nothing wrong with the mouse or the keyboard.

My guess is the memory isn't on the hard drive? A guess.

So, I need to remove the files. Once removed I can place the memory (thing) into another 9600.

C
 

MacTech68

macrumors 68020
Mar 16, 2008
2,187
152
Australia, Perth
Maybe I'm not explaining myself correctly.

One 9600 BOOTS UP fine. Until the very end, then the cursor becomes frozen.
On the 9600 that freezes up when nearly finished booting, try holding down the <Shift> key on the keyboard immediately after you press the power button. Notice it should show "Extensions Off" on the screen as it starts to boot.

If this allows you to move the mouse cursor and the bootup finishes, we might try deleting a file called "Apple Menu Options Prefs" from the preferences folder in the System Folder. This assumes that you're running MacOS 7.x.x, 8.x.x or 9.x.x (ie NOT MacOS X).

Some pics of your machines will help to verify we're all "on the same page". :)
 
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chrfr

macrumors G3
Jul 11, 2009
8,323
2,599
Once you’ve gotten these particular files retrieved, you really need to reconsider how you’re working. Your apparent livelihood relies on a computer that’s more than 20 years old and you don’t seem to have backups. That you haven’t had a catastrophic data loss already is nothing short of miraculous. You really should consider migrating to a much newer computer and to keep good, easily accessible backups of all your files. Without that, you will eventually lose your work.
 

BrianBaughn

macrumors 603
Feb 13, 2011
6,365
938
Baltimore, Maryland
Your computer is 20 years old. The startup process is not completing. There can be several explanations for this…one being the 20 YEAR OLD hard drive might be failing.

IF it’s a failing hard drive you are risking total loss of the files with every step you take that is not in the direction of removing the hard drive and accessing it from a working computer.

You say, "My guess is the memory isn't on the hard drive? A guess.” This makes it seem like you have absolutely no idea what is going on.

I’m sorry if you don’t understand what I’m trying to relay.

Good luck!
 

pl1984

Suspended
Oct 31, 2017
2,249
2,603
The symptom you described suggests there is a problem with either the extensions (addressed by MacTech68 in post #10), corruption of the filesystem, or a failing hard drive (suggested by BrianBaughn in post #12). If you haven't made any changes to the system prior to the symptoms occurring then I would lean towards file system corruption or a failing hard drive. If either is the problem moving the hard drive to another system will not correct the problem.

Since you are not very knowledgeable about computers and given the fact you rely on these files I would seek help from someone who has a solid understanding of old Macintosh systems. Perhaps someone on this forum lives close to you (you don't have a location so you'd need to provide it to find out). Or try to locate a Macintosh service company near you. Post on CL for assistance (I've helped people who have done so).
 

mac not my fault

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jan 23, 2019
16
0
On the 9600 that freezes up when nearly finished booting, try holding down the <Shift> key on the keyboard immediately after you press the power button. Notice it should show "Extensions Off" on the screen as it starts to boot.

If this allows you to move the mouse cursor and the bootup finishes, we might try deleting a file called "Apple Menu Options Prefs" from the preferences folder in the System Folder. This assumes that you're running MacOS 7.x.x, 8.x.x or 9.x.x (ie NOT MacOS X).

Some pics of your machines will help to verify we're all "on the same page". :)
They are beige 9600. BTW, I was actually using the 9600 that developed the frozen cursor at the time.
 

mac not my fault

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jan 23, 2019
16
0
On the 9600 that freezes up when nearly finished booting, try holding down the <Shift> key on the keyboard immediately after you press the power button. Notice it should show "Extensions Off" on the screen as it starts to boot.

If this allows you to move the mouse cursor and the bootup finishes, we might try deleting a file called "Apple Menu Options Prefs" from the preferences folder in the System Folder. This assumes that you're running MacOS 7.x.x, 8.x.x or 9.x.x (ie NOT MacOS X).

Some pics of your machines will help to verify we're all "on the same page". :)
The cursor moves freely during the boot up, right till the end till it stops.

I did a start holding down the shift key, screen stayed black till I left go of the shift key.

I saw no "Extensions Off" on the screen. I'll try again.
 

mac not my fault

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jan 23, 2019
16
0
The symptom you described suggests there is a problem with either the extensions (addressed by MacTech68 in post #10), corruption of the filesystem, or a failing hard drive (suggested by BrianBaughn in post #12). If you haven't made any changes to the system prior to the symptoms occurring then I would lean towards file system corruption or a failing hard drive. If either is the problem moving the hard drive to another system will not correct the problem.

Since you are not very knowledgeable about computers and given the fact you rely on these files I would seek help from someone who has a solid understanding of old Macintosh systems. Perhaps someone on this forum lives close to you (you don't have a location so you'd need to provide it to find out). Or try to locate a Macintosh service company near you. Post on CL for assistance (I've helped people who have done so).
There's no one in the area.

I'm in Palm Beach Gardens FL.

Interesting though, I was using my production side of my software to cut vinyl in my cutter when the cursor froze.

It did this once before but corrected itself with a new boot.

If I go beyond 9.2.2, to OS X, I have to purchase the software upgrade that runs in OS X. 1,000.00 and 40.00 a month till I die. Plus a new Mac on OS X.

And there's absolutely no benefit at all.
 

mac not my fault

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jan 23, 2019
16
0
There's no one in the area.

I'm in Palm Beach Gardens FL.

Interesting though, I was using my production side of my software to cut vinyl in my cutter when the cursor froze.

It did this once before but corrected itself with a new boot.

If I go beyond 9.2.2, to OS X, I have to purchase the software upgrade that runs in OS X. 1,000.00 and 40.00 a month till I die. Plus a new Mac on OS X.

And there's absolutely no benefit at all.


Update.

First of all, I would like to thank everyone for their interest and help.

Thank you.

Here's where I'm at.

Shift key down and I saw "extensions off" the machine booted up but my desktop image was replaced with a sky blue screen. Otherwise it looked normal.

I opened Ill. first and it opened.

I opened my sign program and it works AND I can see and access my files. I opened a file and the program operates my cutter.

So, that's working.

I put in a ZIP, the only way I can copy files that I know of, and the icon did not show up on the screen.

That has to work so I can copy files.

So I'm guessing the machine works fine in "extensions off" mode, except for the Zip.

I have plenty of Zips with backup files, but nothing current. Be nice to get the Zip working to copy my current stuff.

Thanks again.
 

MacTech68

macrumors 68020
Mar 16, 2008
2,187
152
Australia, Perth
The lack of driver for the Zip is normal when Extensions are forced 'Off' - as is the plain sky blue desktop background.

Troubleshooting which extension is causing the problem can be a long-winded process.

It would be good to know what version of MacOS you are actually running. It could be 7.5.5, 7.6, 8.0, 8.1, 8.5, 8.6, 9.0.4 etc etc. Some things may be a little different between versions - we can help best if we know what features you have access to.

If you don't know your system version, boot up with "extensions off" with the shift key again and click on the "Apple menu" top left of the screen and select "About this Macinstosh" or "About this Computer". What version is the System Software on the window that opens?

In any case, try holding the "Apple" key on the keyboard and press "F" - this will give you a "find" window.

Type the name (without quote marks) "apple menu options prefs" and click "Find".

In the window that pops up, you should see a document listed with that name. Click & Drag the document by it's icon to the "Trash" icon on your desktop.

Reboot as normal.

I do agree that you need to find somebody very familiar with older mac systems in your area. Hopefully somebody close to your location (Palm Beach Gardens FL.).

I wholly appreciate that this system runs a cutting machine (of sorts), but given it's age, and the lack of parts and support means that it's days are numbered.
 

pl1984

Suspended
Oct 31, 2017
2,249
2,603
Good to hear that disabling extensions brought the system back to the desktop. Most likely the reason you're unable to see the Zip drive is because it requires an extension which is not available when you disabled them.

Your next step is to attempt and identify which extension is causing the problem. Thankfully Mac OS has the "Extensions Manager" which can help you do this. You can find it:

Apple Menu -> Control Panels -> Extensions Manager​

If you do not find it off the Apple Menu you can look in:

Untitled -> System Folder -> Control Panels -> Extensions Manager​

This assumes the name of your hard disk is "Untitled", if it is not use whatever hard drive name you have.

Extensions Manager provides an easy way to disable individual or groups of extensions. The idea is to selectively enable each extension, reboot the system, and see if the problem occurs. If it does the last extension enabled is very likely to be the culprit. Knowing the particular extension you can disable it and enable all of the other extensions.

This can be a lengthy process due to the need to reboot the system after each change. Therefore a decent strategy is to work in groups of 50%. By this I mean enable 50% of the extensions, reboot, and see if the problem occurs. If it does then one of those 50% is the culprit. You would then disable 50% of those extensions and repeat. If not then one of the other 50% is the culprit. Therefore you would enable 50% of those extensions and repeat.

There is the possibility of a conflict which would require more work to troubleshoot. I recommend you start off trying to identify if there's a single extension which is causing the problem. If that doesn't work then more troubleshooting will be required.

Having said this unless you made a change to your system prior to this problem I think it's likely there is a hardware problem, specifically a failing hard disk. Can you confirm you did not make any changes (adding / removing software, configuration changes, etc.) prior to the problem?
 
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mac not my fault

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jan 23, 2019
16
0
Good to hear that disabling extensions brought the system back to the desktop. Most likely the reason you're unable to see the Zip drive is because it requires an extension which is not available when you disabled them.

Your next step is to attempt and identify which extension is causing the problem. Thankfully Mac OS has the "Extensions Manager" which can help you do this. You can find it:

Apple Menu -> Control Panels -> Extensions Manager​

If you do not find it off the Apple Menu you can look in:

Untitled -> System Folder -> Control Panels -> Extensions Manager​

This assumes the name of your hard disk is "Untitled", if it is not use whatever hard drive name you have.

Extensions Manager provides an easy way to disable individual or groups of extensions. The idea is to selectively enable each extension, reboot the system, and see if the problem occurs. If it does the last extension enabled is very likely to be the culprit. Knowing the particular extension you can disable it and enable all of the other extensions.

This can be a lengthy process due to the need to reboot the system after each change. Therefore a decent strategy is to work in groups of 50%. By this I mean enable 50% of the extensions, reboot, and see if the problem occurs. If it does then one of those 50% is the culprit. You would then disable 50% of those extensions and repeat. If not then one of the other 50% is the culprit. Therefore you would enable 50% of those extensions and repeat.

There is the possibility of a conflict which would require more work to troubleshoot. I recommend you start off trying to identify if there's a single extension which is causing the problem. If that doesn't work then more troubleshooting will be required.

Having said this unless you made a change to your system prior to this problem I think it's likely there is a hardware problem, specifically a failing hard disk. Can you confirm you did not make any changes (adding / removing software, configuration changes, etc.) prior to the problem?
Gentlemen,

Thank you so much for all your help.

Because I can now run a job without use of the entire machine, I will do what I have to so I can have work.

I have vinyl to cut for a truck lettering job I have to do. I'll be busy with this.

Afterwards I'll do those tasks.

I'm guessing the thing will always open in "extensions off" mode so I can do my work?

It sleeps black screen. I'm tempted to not shut it off and I haven't tried it.

I need to do work first before I go further.

I don't mind working in extensions off mode but if I am to save files, getting the Zip to work is necessary.

Thanks again.
 

pl1984

Suspended
Oct 31, 2017
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Disabling extensions using the shift key is temporary and applies only to that boot. If you want to disable them without needing to use the shift key on each start you will need to disable them using the Extensions Manager. If you do so I'd second BrianBaughns suggestion to leave the Zip drive extension enabled (if you can determine what it is).

As an FYI disabling an extension is done by removing it from the Extensions folder within the System Folder. Extension Manager merely moves any that you disable out of this folder and, at least in Mac OS 9.2, places them in a folder with a name along the lines of Extensions Disabled (I don't recall the actual name, it's been a while).
 

mac not my fault

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jan 23, 2019
16
0
Disabling extensions using the shift key is temporary and applies only to that boot. If you want to disable them without needing to use the shift key on each start you will need to disable them using the Extensions Manager. If you do so I'd second BrianBaughns suggestion to leave the Zip drive extension enabled (if you can determine what it is).

As an FYI disabling an extension is done by removing it from the Extensions folder within the System Folder. Extension Manager merely moves any that you disable out of this folder and, at least in Mac OS 9.2, places them in a folder with a name along the lines of Extensions Disabled (I don't recall the actual name, it's been a while).
Gentlemen,

Yes, good suggestions, but there's tons of stuff in extensions.

Along side is a box to X or not X.

Be nice to know which one runs the ZIP.

BTW. The Zip I put in will not release with a paper clip put into that tiny hole?
 

pl1984

Suspended
Oct 31, 2017
2,249
2,603
Gentlemen,

Yes, good suggestions, but there's tons of stuff in extensions.

Along side is a box to X or not X.

Be nice to know which one runs the ZIP.

BTW. The Zip I put in will not release with a paper clip put into that tiny hole?
Examine the list and see if there is an extension that has "zip" or "IOmega" in the name.
 

mac not my fault

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jan 23, 2019
16
0
Gentlemen,

First, thank you for your interest and help.

Here's where I'm at.

Because I now have confidence with a boot using the "shift" key, I tried a normal boot.

BINGO! It booted correctly and I now have my normal screen! I ran a small job and my program works well.

Here's the thing. I noticed there's a "stuck" Zip in the Zip slot. I tried trashing it but that wouldn't work.

I now remember I had this problem once before on this Mac. I used pliers to grab the end to pull and remove it. With some resistance, I got it out. It did work after that.

Now, removing this Zip the same way has damaged the Zip device in that a Zip will not stay in, and when held in, it doesn't work. No light blinking.

I still need to copy all my art files. I need a Zip that works to do this. I have other Zip devices in a spare Mac and I could change it if it's easy to do?

This Mac does have a "Floppy" slot that works. I would need a bunch of Floppies, but I would rather have the Zip working.

Thanks in advance.