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porg

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 3, 2008
64
19
I have seen posts from other people in the end of 2020 and the start of 2021 posting the same graphical glitch bugs, I have experienced, on ca. 2014-2015 MacBook Pros when using the dGPU (i.e. NVIDIA). sSo most likely Big Sur, maybe Catalina related. Maybe NVIDIA driver, Metal API, Firmware upgrade. All those threads were inconclusive. So I investigated this over 2 weeks, and compiled it into a thorough bug report.

Submitted to Apple under FB9001334 on 2021-02-11.
  • In copy in the post below and on OpenRadar.me
  • For sharing and reference purposes. With some privacy omissions.
  • I also went to various inconclusive forum threads and linked them here.
  • As soon as I get an official answer from Apple, or find relevant information elsewhere, I will share it here.
Appreciated from you, dear reader:
  1. If you suspect to suffer the same issue, please share your bug experience and HW/SW specifics here too.
  2. If you have deeper knowhow, solutions or workarounds, even better!
 
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porg

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 3, 2008
64
19

Rendering glitches when dGPU active in specific apps Photos and Safari​


My bug report to Apple under FB9001334 on 2021-02-11.
In copy here (with some omissions) for reference purposes.


TL;DR:​

In the recent weeks I experience graphical glitches in specific apps only (Photos + Safari)
on my MacBook Pro (Mid 2014) and only when running on its dGPU which is a NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M.

For a number of reasons (see inline) I do not think that this is thermal, aging issue,
but rather a software issue having to do with recent updates:
NVIDIA driver, MetalAPI, possibly recent Firmware/BootROM upgrade.
Glitch I in Photos.app and Glitch II in Safari are both 100% reproducible!

WITHIN THIS BUG REPORT:​

  • Roman numerals refer to the separate observed glitches.
  • Arabic numerals refer to the provided screenshots / screen recordings.


GLITCH I in Photos.app​


Always correct behavior on iGPU (100% reproducible)​

  • Disconnect power adapter to run on battery
  • Launch Photos.app, it runs on the iGPU
  • Switch from "Months" to "Days" view and later back again
  • Perfect animation, always

Always faulty behavior on dGPU (100% reproducible)​

  • Connect power adapter
  • Launch Photos.app, it enforces dGPU
  • 1a) Switch from "Months" to "Days" view and back again

    1a 010 ms.jpg
    1a 023ms.jpg
    1a 090ms.jpg
    1a 190ms.jpg
    • During the transition within the content canvas of the single-window-app:
      • The upper ca. 30% and lower ca. 30% off the canvas show the faulty behavior:
      • Random white/grey lines, triangles or rects overlaying some of the photos.
    • Sometimes this does not happen at the first transition, but just scroll up or down a bit, and then transist, and latest at the 3rd-5th repetition you get the glitch.
      • And if you then transist back and forth, without scrolling inbetween, you always reproduce the glitch
  • 1b) If you are already in the bug and then scroll within the "Months" view, then the gap surfaces between the photos flashes in full white or with white zig-zag lines.

    1b 01s818ms.jpg
    1b 01s885ms.jpg
    1b 01s985ms.jpg


GLITCH II in Safari​


Not reproducible. But when occurring certain environment commonalities are observable:
  • Experienced this twice within 8 days while using my computer ca. 6 days a week for 6-10 hours a day.
  • Both times happened on GitHub.com, though on different project pages.
    • Not on other domains, and I sure visit 100 different domains/websites per day.
  • Always occurred while on dGPU:
    • On 2020-02-03 I ran on an external display which enforced the dGPU.
    • On 2020-02-11 I ran on the internal display, had Photos.app running in the background (I explicitly mean the GUI, not the daemons like photoanalysisd), which enforced dGPU.

2) Visible glitches​

  • Black squares and triangles (assumingely polygons of accelerated graphics)
  • Font rendering shows broken glyphs

    2a dGPU glitch Safari GitHub 2021-02-02.png
    2b dGPU glitch Safari GitHub 2021-02-02 annotated.png

3) Workaround:​

  • 3a) When Safari suffers the glitch
  • 3b) Switch from dGPU to iGPU
    • I did this while running on power adapter effectively by quitting the only dGPU dependent app Photos.app
  • 3c) Thermals were unsuspicious while that time. Fans very relaxed.
    3c Component stats before during after glitch time 2021-02-11--1447.png

4) Also other people on the Internet report the same symptoms​

All of late 2020 or early 2021, so very likely all related to recent Safari and macOS Catalina / Big Sur. And in many cases mentioning NVIDIA GPUs.

GLITCH III in Safari​

Always reproducible!
  • 5a) I now have a stable reproduction:
    • With your external display connected, hence the dGPU on, open Safari
    • Open wxcharts.com (a weather website)
    • The satellite/weather image sequence shows a rendering glitch: Green rectangles (ca 90x50px) along a diagonal axis are shown above that satellite/weather image sequence. Regardless where the playback/slider is.

      5a dGPU WxCharts Safari glitch - Image has overlay of green rectangles along diagonol axis.png
  • 4d) exactly as user @Benblob688 reported on https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252176898
    4d 2cf1e8ad-c6d3-468d-8d3e-f2c7ba5ad2bc.png

  • 5b) For comparison, while still on dGPU the same website renders flawlessly on Brave Browser (Chromium web engine)
    5b dGPU WxCharts Brave Browser rendering flawless.png

  • In Safari: As soon as you switch to iGPU by disconnecting the external display, the window re-renders instantly, and all is fine!

ISOLATION BY TIMELINE:​

These were the things which I recently changed:
  • 2021-01-18 Upgraded macOS 10.15.7 with 2020-001 Supplemental (had postponed this for long)
    • macOS: 10.15.7 19H15 -> 19H114
    • Boot-ROM: 162.0.0.0.0 -> 429.0.0.0.0
  • 2021-01-21 Upgraded macOS 10.15.7 Catalina to 10.11.1 Big Sur
Glitch II in Safari definitely only experienced first on 2020-02-03. Never before.

Glitch I in Photos I only deliberately noticed on 2021-01-29 in Big Sur and thereafter.
  • But I may have already noticed it in Catalina somewhen 2020 and ignored it, rarely used it then.
  • Luckily I still had bootable backups of Catalina and Mojave and booted them on the same machine with the meanwhile newer BootROM 429.0.0.0 and ran:
    • Photos in Catalina: Exactly the same glitch happens!
    • Photos in Mojave: Different navigation paradigm "Photos | Moments | Collections | Years". But I scrolled around wildly and zoomed in and out wildly, and no glitches at all!

ISOLATION BY SCOPE:​

  • My thermals are overally very ok. The fans are mostly silent, also when the incidents happened.
  • I never have rendering artefacts on the screen in general or in other apps.
    • Only in the forementioned specific apps Photos and Safari.
  • Other 3D apps work without glitches:
    • Apple Maps in 3D mode in cities which have the 3D buildings
    • Brave Browser running Google Maps in 3D mode
    • Google Earth Pro (seems to use Qt/OpenGL)
  • I don't think (or hope) that it's first signs of dGPU death as it was on my MacBook Pro (Late 2006) with the widely spread contact-pin issues of this series back then. The difference there was that heat indeed noticable and the glitches were general and not app-specific.
  • So I assume it's indeed a software issue (NVIDIA drivers, Metal API, maybe recent BootROM upgrade v162 -> v429) and hope that it will be solved.
 
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porg

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 3, 2008
64
19
Update:
  • Added "GLITCH III in Safari" to my original post.
    • Faulty green rectangles over normal image is
    • Stabily reproducible on the dGPU. Never on the iGPU.
  • Also amended my bug report to Apple.
  • Still no reaction from Apple.
 
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Maximara

macrumors 68000
Jun 16, 2008
1,707
908
Good work. This shows that it isn't a "hardware" issue as Mas either the NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M or iGPU Intel Iris Pro can be made to produce the issue. It is a bug in the software given the iGPU Intel Iris Pro is also effected.
 
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porg

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 3, 2008
64
19
@Maximara You are mistaken! These bugs only occur on the dGPU NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M. Never on the iGPU Intel Iris Pro.

Nevertheless from all the observed behavior -- only within window canvas of specific apps, no correlation to thermals -- I conclude it's most likely a software bug. Of course my conclusion has a certain bias, containing a portion of "hope" in it. But a small one. Enough indications that this is really a software bug.

Most likely you did not read my lengthy report, I understand that ofc. Or did I indeed state somewhere explicitly or give the impression that this also happened on the iGPU ?
 
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Coheebuzz

macrumors 6502a
Oct 10, 2005
511
148
Nicosia, Cyprus
I've been having the same issue in Safari on an 2012 21" iMac (NVIDIA GeForce GT 640M), specifically the glitched text and black shapes problem. I think it's using Mojave but i can't check right now as it's at the office.
 
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porg

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 3, 2008
64
19
@Coheebuzz please update the OS version + Safari version as soon as you know it. Thanks!
 
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Coheebuzz

macrumors 6502a
Oct 10, 2005
511
148
Nicosia, Cyprus
Will do so in a couple of hours.

It's relieving to see it's a widespread issue as these sort of glitches are typical for a dying GPU, although in those cases the glitches tend to get progressively worse and fast so i am also gravitating towards a driver problem.
 

porg

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 3, 2008
64
19
^ I ask for the Safari version number too because it's important. In recent years Safari always got backported to the previous macOS version as well, so most likely you have the same Safari on Catalina as on Big Sur.
 

porg

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 3, 2008
64
19
@Coheebuzz Most likely the graphics acceleration used in Safari 14+ and Photos.app Catalina+, I guess Metal API.

Other readers: If you are also affected, please chime in here with your specifics.

The more witnesses with specs, the more convincing. Would then inform Apple about it with an update to my bug report.
 

Maximara

macrumors 68000
Jun 16, 2008
1,707
908
@Maximara You are mistaken! These bugs only occur on the dGPU NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M. Never on the iGPU Intel Iris Pro.
"In the recent weeks I experience graphical glitches in specific apps only (Photos + Safari)
on my MacBook Pro (Mid 2014) with dGPU NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M + iGPU Intel Iris Pro."
Most likely you did not read my lengthy report, I understand that ofc. Or did I indeed state somewhere explicitly or give the impression that this also happened on the iGPU ?
Yes, "In the recent weeks I experience graphical glitches in specific apps only (Photos + Safari)
on my MacBook Pro (Mid 2014) with dGPU NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M + iGPU Intel Iris Pro."

If it didn't happen with a iGPU Intel Iris Pro why even mention that as the configuration in the TL;DR? The whole purpose of TL;DR is to sum things up without having people wading through what one feels is a long bit of text.
 
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porg

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 3, 2008
64
19
@Maximara thanks for spotting my error in the TL;DR section!
I meant "experiencing glitches on MBP X, which has a dGPU Y and a iGPU Z".
But ofc that can easily be interpreted as experiencing the glitches on both dGPU Y and a iGPU Z.
Thanks a lot for assisting me in proofreading. Corrected this section already. Thanks!

@All The glitches only occur on the dGPU. Never on the iGPU!
Nevertheless I suspect a software/driver/API issue specific to the dGPU and not an aging/thermal issue of the dGPU as the issues are very very specific to certain apps and never happened at general positions of the screen from other apps or the window manager/compositing engine.
 

Maximara

macrumors 68000
Jun 16, 2008
1,707
908
@Maximara
Nevertheless I suspect a software/driver/API issue specific to the dGPU and not an aging/thermal issue of the dGPU as the issues are very very specific to certain apps and never happened at general positions of the screen from other apps or the window manager/compositing engine.
I suspect it is a software issue though I am not so sure if it would ba driver issue. If it was that wouldn't we see it more often across more software?
 

porg

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 3, 2008
64
19
I am quite experienced in computing and work in the field (UX designer) but am no software engineer myself! Knew the graphics rendering stack of Mac OS X ca. 10.6 and Carbon apps to some extent, but the contemporary rendering stack of macOS not at all.

I do not think it's a general graphics bug of Safari and of Photos.app, because quality assurance of Apple would have caught that. And if not then beta users. Or latest the general user base.

But it seems something less widespread. Only on some particular (elder!) machines. Not that many occurrences/complaints yet.

Hence I think a particular part of the driver or something in the abstraction layer(s) of the graphic stack to that driver, which only get's triggered by certain apps or frameworks/APIs, which facilitate a certain feature. And generally the native Mac apps are the first to use the "cutting edge" stuff of the vendor itself, hence manifesting there first, and 3D apps based on elder like technologies like Google Earth (some sort of OpenGL) are not showing the buggy behavior.
 

Maximara

macrumors 68000
Jun 16, 2008
1,707
908
On a side note another one of the issues with updates to Catalina (which also produces this issue) is they seem to clobber the ability to boot from an external hard drive as documented in Problem with MacOS update 10.15.7 2020-001 so this may be an issue deeper then just the drivers and there was a "stealth" patch to the ROM/firmware that could be contributing to this issue.
 

lord.macintosh

macrumors newbie
Aug 13, 2015
29
25
Edinburgh
I am having this issue for over a year now, since last big sur update it seems worse. Mostly experience it on visiting Macrumors.
Late 2013 MacBook Pro, 2.3 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7
NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M 2 GB
11.2.2 (20D80)

Issue was present with Catalina as well.
 
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tn-xyz

macrumors regular
Sep 13, 2017
175
211
i experience the same glitches now and then, most notably the green rectangles in safari, using my MBP i7 mid-2014 and big sur.

can’t say i did under catalina though.
 
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FireWire_

macrumors newbie
Apr 29, 2021
1
0
I have a 15" Late 2013 MBP and I have the same bugs since upgrading to Big Sur (Mojave -> Big Sur since I wasn't ready to lose my 32 bits apps yet for Catalina). I suspected a bad install but I just updated to 11.3 (full install from the app store and not an upgrade from System Update) and the problems are still present.

Problems:

- I got the weird black triangles bug once just after upgrading to Big sur, but it was system-wide and not just in Safari. A reboot fixed it and it didn't happen again
- I get the green/pink diagonal rectangles bug in Safari regularly. It disappears when I switch to integrated graphics
- I got the weird glyph bug in Safari just a couple of times

Specs:

- MacBook Pro 11,3 (Retina, 15-inch, Late 2013)
- CPU: 2.3 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7
- Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M 2 GB, ROM: 3776, Metal: Supported
- Memory: 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
- System: macOS 11.3 (20E232)
- Firmware: 431.0.0.0.0 / SMC: 2.19f12
 

Maximara

macrumors 68000
Jun 16, 2008
1,707
908
I have a 15" Late 2013 MBP and I have the same bugs since upgrading to Big Sur (Mojave -> Big Sur since I wasn't ready to lose my 32 bits apps yet for Catalina). I suspected a bad install but I just updated to 11.3 (full install from the app store and not an upgrade from System Update) and the problems are still present.

Problems:

- I got the weird black triangles bug once just after upgrading to Big sur, but it was system-wide and not just in Safari. A reboot fixed it and it didn't happen again
- I get the green/pink diagonal rectangles bug in Safari regularly. It disappears when I switch to integrated graphics
- I got the weird glyph bug in Safari just a couple of times

Specs:

- MacBook Pro 11,3 (Retina, 15-inch, Late 2013)
- CPU: 2.3 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7
- Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M 2 GB, ROM: 3776, Metal: Supported
- Memory: 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
- System: macOS 11.3 (20E232)
- Firmware: 431.0.0.0.0 / SMC: 2.19f12
This seems to be an issue with Nvidia graphic chips as that seems to be the only common element in what people who have given specs who have this issue. Some have seen it in other programs but safari seems to have the most issues. I finally got tired of it and went to Firefox. Haven't seen a graphic glitch since.
 

RobertBerryO2

macrumors newbie
Jun 26, 2021
6
1
I encountered these problems when I upgraded eventually from Mac OS X Catalina to Mac OS Big Sur V11.4. The most apparent problem is with BBC News website using Safari. I thought it was safe to upgrade to Big Sur after testing Big Sur on my MacBook Pro 13-inch, but it only has the Intel Iris iGPU, and not a dGPU. So I wasn't aware that there was going to be a problem on my MacBook Pro 15-inch with iGPU and dGPU installed. Fool!!!!!!!!!

My spec is as follows:-
MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, late 2013)
Graphics
NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M 2 GB
Intel Iris Pro 1536 MB

The problem becomes apparent when my external monitor is attached, therefore using the NVIDIA dGPU. Disconnect the external monitor and the Safari window appears on the internal Retina display. The problem remains for a split second and then all is fine on the Retina display. If I then go to System Preferences-->Battery and disable "Automatic Graphics Switching" this forces the MacBook to always use the dGPU, and hence the problem appears on the internal Retina display. I think the problem is specific to how Safari is responding to some HTML features used by some web sites.

The bad news is that the problem is not fixed in Safari V15 so far. You can obtain a copy of the "not yet released" version from Apple called "Safari Technology Preview."

I raised the problem with Apple Support using Case ID 101420288005. I also provided feedback via "Apple Feedback Assistant" on the Safari V15 "Safari Technology Preview" version.

After much interaction removing "Login Items", Safe Boot, etc the Apple support technician agreed that the problem appeared as I had suggested. His response was to raise the issue with the BBC News web page developers. And perhaps I should reformat my hard drive (SSD) and do a completely clean install of Big Sur.

If you go to the "Official Apple Support Community" and search for "green rectangles on safari in big sur" you will find a significant number of threads with people experiencing the same issue. And thousands of hits!.

Regret the only way that this is going to be resolved is if many of us raise support issues with Apple to complain. RIP Steve Jobs. Not sure this would have happened on "your watch"!
 
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Sendeky

macrumors newbie
Jan 20, 2021
21
25
I have the same problem. Macbook Pro 15 inch 2014 with Geforce GT750M. I typically get ths only on Safari when visiting Macrumours.
 
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