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Rene Ritchie.. the voice of reason
- Thread starter iGeneo
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Again you seem fixated on one phrase you picked out of context. Even if there was some hyperbole, that does not warrant your conclusions.
And believe me, there is nothing what Rene leads me to believe, because I believe almost nothing coming from his mouth 😉.
Let's leave it at that, because this gets completely off topic.
That's the beauty of running a load of benchmarks and other tests in Lightroom, FCPX, files transfers, etc. like many YouTubers do. It helps give an overall picture of things.
its not really directed at you, though I did reply to you, just seems it is a common sentiment for a couple people to disagree and some bystander to say ' stop yelling at each other '
I don't know who needs to hear this, maybe Rene more than anyone but:
discourse isn't always inherently cancerous. 100% agreeing with each other is an impossible goal.
*chefs kiss*
Nice to know that there are some realistic posters on this forum that actually understand the nuance involved with this issue.
Edit: Can't wait to read the response to this, if there even is one.
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Pretty much. They are angry with Apple because they underestimated the needs within their own workflows. Much ado about nothing.
200 chrome tabs open while multitasking office apps = surprised Pikachu face that they're regularly hitting swap.
Agreed. I would like to see some benchmarks based on realistic use cases.
For example:
A consumer who is using the MBA M2 as their home computer where they look at the web, take some FT/Zoom calls, write some emails, edit videos of a family day with their kids in iMovie, or playing the odd game (though I'd hope that they weren't buying the MBA as a gaming notebook) etc. I'd be willing to bet quite a bit won't notice any significant slow down.
A knowledge worker, I'm again, going bet that they won't see any slowdown - and in fact, if they have MS Office, Teams, Zoom, various web apps open, it's likely that they'd be better off using their money (or their company's money) to upgrade the base model to 16GB (you could make an argument that probably the best model for most people is the base model with a 16GB upgrade).
In fact, the only people who I expect will see a slow down are multimedia editors/creators i.e. those who are doing professional video or audio creation/editing or image editing/creation.
However, people like that you'd assume would need at least the 512GB version anyway - and there would be an argument that maybe the 14 inch MBP might be a better computer for them.
Anyway, now that people are starting to get their hands on the MBA M2 I hope that people with different use cases will post their experiences here (or on forums like this).
For example:
A consumer who is using the MBA M2 as their home computer where they look at the web, take some FT/Zoom calls, write some emails, edit videos of a family day with their kids in iMovie, or playing the odd game (though I'd hope that they weren't buying the MBA as a gaming notebook) etc. I'd be willing to bet quite a bit won't notice any significant slow down.
A knowledge worker, I'm again, going bet that they won't see any slowdown - and in fact, if they have MS Office, Teams, Zoom, various web apps open, it's likely that they'd be better off using their money (or their company's money) to upgrade the base model to 16GB (you could make an argument that probably the best model for most people is the base model with a 16GB upgrade).
In fact, the only people who I expect will see a slow down are multimedia editors/creators i.e. those who are doing professional video or audio creation/editing or image editing/creation.
However, people like that you'd assume would need at least the 512GB version anyway - and there would be an argument that maybe the 14 inch MBP might be a better computer for them.
Anyway, now that people are starting to get their hands on the MBA M2 I hope that people with different use cases will post their experiences here (or on forums like this).
Yeah no argument for me - the 13” MacBook Pro should no longer exist. Even if benchmarks end up being great.
I’m terms of the MacBook Air though, benchmarks and these tests are overkill for the intended audience.
For starters - I never used the word toxic. But thank you for putting words in my mouth, much appreciated.
Also, didn't realize most Apple users transfer tens of gigabytes at a time and are video editors. I guess we should tell Apple who their customer base is... oh wait... it is normal non-power users. Please reread my post again - I simply said the majority of users would not notice a difference.
And again, if your usual workflow requires high performance - spend extra and get a higher end model. You are NOT a typical user.
For instance, I require a lot of performance for my daily workflow, so I spent $4k+ and got a loaded 16" MPB. The productivity boost has paid for the extra expenditure at least 10x over. Business 101.
This entire argument over the SSD is just ludicrous. Power users who would notice the difference and make up a small minority of the overall customer base are not who Apple is concerned about. They care about the 95% of other users. Unfortunately people forget that and think their uses are typical, when they are far from it.
The video this thread is talking about -- from Rene -- did use that word
(it's even in the thumbnail on the first post)
.. you asked where "toxic" came from in that previous users post
No, "you" didn't say it -- but the reason that user was using that terminology at all stems from Rene's video (calling benchmark reviews toxic and creating a toxic review atmosphere)
That's all I'm clarifying
The "toxic" word -- in this context -- all started with Rene, not any of us (or you)
Keep up with the thread. The word was used by Rene, you are discussing his video. And the tests are for the M2 MacBookPro not the Air.
Finally I totally disagree with the view people won't notice. I am pretty sure most people WILL notice the difference. What I would agree is that most people will care aabout the difference since they are not willing to pay for the higher RAM/SSD or higher MacBook Pro to improve performance. But that is a completely different argument to what Rene and you are saying.
Finally it is Apple who is boasting that the MacBook Air can edit 8K video not the reviewers. If you check on the Apple M2 Macbook Air page you will see this statement "Work with more streams of 4K and 8K ProRes video with the high‑performance media engine." or this one "Up to1.4x faster than M1 model" or this one "Video editing/Image filters and effects/Gaming/Scene edit detection/Photo stitching/ProRes video transcode/Image upscaling" or this one "Faster video editing performance". So instead of blaming people complaining about the SSD performance for mistakenly thinking the product is NOT for them why don't you realise it is Apple who made the mistake is positioning this laptop as a "Pro" machine while at the same time not spec'ing it properly.
PS: The M1 is an killing machine, nobody complained about the M1. You can't just release an M2 which has power performance than the M1 and worst than that claim, it's faster when it is not.
I would argue that Rene is making things 'toxic' by labeling them as such when I haven't really seen it despite all the grumblings about the M2 256 NAND situation.
He has low regard for dissenters that don't just obey blindly is what I think it boils down to.
He has low regard for dissenters that don't just obey blindly is what I think it boils down to.
I’ll just add an anecdote from my own personal experience.
I have an M1 Air, 16GB/512GB. I am able to run Parallels with Windows 11 ARM using Visual Studio 2022 doing .net 6 based development and my machine never gets hot nor slows down that I can tell.
I will usually have 4 tabs open in macOS Safari and 4 or 5 in Microsoft Edge Chromium in Windows, plus Visual Studio doing builds, etc.
When I’m doing 20 minute Visual Studio builds in the Windows VM, while browsing and listening to music in macOS, my M1 Air barely gets warm to the touch and I’ve never experienced any perceptible slowdown.
That’s what’s achievable with my M1 Air. It’s head and shoulders faster and cooler (and 100% silent) than my 2018 MacBook “Pro”. The same work on that machine literally made it too hot to hold. I had to get a lap stand, and the screaming fan made it unpleasant to work with, not to mention sucking dust into the chassis and onto components. Oh, and builds were dog slow.
I’ve read a lot about how the Air shouldn’t be used for “Pro” workloads. That’s subjective. It should be used for whatever purpose it is fit for. The reviews that have contrasted the M1 and M2 Air performance were very helpful. Objectively, the M2 throttles sooner than the M1 and in some cases workloads take longer than on the M1 due to that. Valuable information to have for many of us “Pros” who “want it all” - cool, fast and silent - as the M1 Air delivered.
If your mom (not to pick on moms, but this is a frequently quoted demographic) won’t be running the Pro workloads as shown in some reviewers’ videos, then you’re likely correct that the base model would suit them fine. To each their own. At least we have the benchmark and workload testing results and can use them to inform our purchasing decisions. 😊
I have an M1 Air, 16GB/512GB. I am able to run Parallels with Windows 11 ARM using Visual Studio 2022 doing .net 6 based development and my machine never gets hot nor slows down that I can tell.
I will usually have 4 tabs open in macOS Safari and 4 or 5 in Microsoft Edge Chromium in Windows, plus Visual Studio doing builds, etc.
When I’m doing 20 minute Visual Studio builds in the Windows VM, while browsing and listening to music in macOS, my M1 Air barely gets warm to the touch and I’ve never experienced any perceptible slowdown.
That’s what’s achievable with my M1 Air. It’s head and shoulders faster and cooler (and 100% silent) than my 2018 MacBook “Pro”. The same work on that machine literally made it too hot to hold. I had to get a lap stand, and the screaming fan made it unpleasant to work with, not to mention sucking dust into the chassis and onto components. Oh, and builds were dog slow.
I’ve read a lot about how the Air shouldn’t be used for “Pro” workloads. That’s subjective. It should be used for whatever purpose it is fit for. The reviews that have contrasted the M1 and M2 Air performance were very helpful. Objectively, the M2 throttles sooner than the M1 and in some cases workloads take longer than on the M1 due to that. Valuable information to have for many of us “Pros” who “want it all” - cool, fast and silent - as the M1 Air delivered.
If your mom (not to pick on moms, but this is a frequently quoted demographic) won’t be running the Pro workloads as shown in some reviewers’ videos, then you’re likely correct that the base model would suit them fine. To each their own. At least we have the benchmark and workload testing results and can use them to inform our purchasing decisions. 😊
No matter how much the Apple apologists and the deniers defend the position. The damage to Apple is done. And we know well from past mistakes that even when Apple denies the problems exists (Antenna gate - "you are holding it wrong", butterfly keyboard, etc) they will address the issue. So to me this whole discussion among us is pointless, as it should be directed at Apple and indeed the negative PR this has caused will run it's course. I for one tell anyone I know not to buy the M2 MacBook Air base model since it's not a good buy. Better to buy the M1 MBA (cheaper) or jump to the M1 MBP 14" (more lengevity).
I agree
aside from ARM Windows limitations inherent to AS where imo you're better off getting an x86 Mac or a Windows laptop if thats really needed a lot,
M1 Air smokes pretty much all preceding Intel Macs many of which 'Pro' labeled, maybe barring 16" intel MBP and then probably edges in some cases, certainly in heat overall
The only thing not "Pro" about M1 (and now M2, without having used it and minus the halved SSD speeds on base model), IMO, is not being able to power dual displays.
They should fix that eventually. I only have one monitor but I could understand the fuss there as well.
All good point, in particular what the user should do on the machine. Why can't a Pro use an Air? Maybe they don't have the budget to buy the Pro model. Why can't a mom user have a Pro machine even if they won't notice the difference?
At the end of the Apple makes products and we as consumers make choices with our wallets. I think the M2 MacBook Air could have been the best laptop in the history of laptops, if it had dual SSD chips in the base model. It was so close of being perfect that's annoying. And I was going to buy one straight away to give to my wife and daughter so that I could use my M1 Max exclusively.
But they had to spoil it for a few dollars. If 128 GB chips were not available due to supply constraint issues they should have fitted 2x 256 GB chips and mark 50% of the SSD's sectors as spare. That would have made the SSD longevity very long without being accused of not making the SSD space available to use by customers. No one would have ever noticed...
I guess people just don’t understand what base model means when it comes to business! Also the constant benchmark and device comparison videos are real boring.
It would appear as I analyze the sensationalism of these review videos that it answers nothing other than idiots searching for the perfect device that defies the laws of physics and can be had for under $1k.
I’ve watched the way the LTT guys constantly build new machines with same results and costs never attainable for the average user. As for the “Pro User”, they know what devices to purchase for the job. No person running a business in their right mind would/should buy a VW beetle when what is needed is Tacoma to get the job done.
Also, WTH is with paying all this money, complaining and tearing the machine apart?!! Seems a little sensational for no reason.
Just my 2¢, but it best if people just get what works for them and ignore all the YT click bait crap.
It would appear as I analyze the sensationalism of these review videos that it answers nothing other than idiots searching for the perfect device that defies the laws of physics and can be had for under $1k.
I’ve watched the way the LTT guys constantly build new machines with same results and costs never attainable for the average user. As for the “Pro User”, they know what devices to purchase for the job. No person running a business in their right mind would/should buy a VW beetle when what is needed is Tacoma to get the job done.
Also, WTH is with paying all this money, complaining and tearing the machine apart?!! Seems a little sensational for no reason.
Just my 2¢, but it best if people just get what works for them and ignore all the YT click bait crap.
MaxTech has made more money from video views than the base MBA cost them. Then they will probably use it for a giveaway to increase subscriber count and views, thus earning even more money. Even without that, its a tax deductible business expense.
As far as all the reviewers who just draw conclusions from benchmarks, most of them return the computers after making the videos so they were in effect, free.
There’s nothing “sensational” about tear downs though I guess that’s subjective like anything
We wanna know the components and how it’s constructed internally not just a magical box that does random magical things. There’s a science to computer science, why ignore it?
Dropping phones from 10 floors up… yeah I think sensational sums it up pretty well.
But it’s also YouTube , a lot of crap is on there but non crap too. There is no standard.
We wanna know the components and how it’s constructed internally not just a magical box that does random magical things. There’s a science to computer science, why ignore it?
Dropping phones from 10 floors up… yeah I think sensational sums it up pretty well.
But it’s also YouTube , a lot of crap is on there but non crap too. There is no standard.
The real reviews are coming from Youtubers like Jonathan Morrison and Gamers Nexus...I mean, just look at Jonathan Morrison's latest video:
This is how you review a product...
This post is going down as well as the comments section in that video 😂 Man really thought people here blindly agree with any excuse Rene conjures up.