We are NOT the target audience of these laptops. The fact we even know speeds of SSDs already make us not the target audience. Can we get them? Yes, but we need to be aware of the limitations. The spec chasers and benchmark watches are geared towards the Macbook Pros (the TRUE pros - 14" and 16" ones). M2 Macbook Air is what I would give to my parents. I would choose 14" at a MINIMUM for any real work. Heck even the M1 iMac is borderline IMO.
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Rene Ritchie.. the voice of reason
- Thread starter iGeneo
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Imo just because we are not the target doesn't mean Apple should not disclose discrepancies like this. Heck, it's not just the Air, the base 13 MacBook Pros also suffers the SSD slowdown, and yet Apple's marketing for the Pro model clearly targets more advance users that would be severely impacted by the discrepancy in performance.
You have to be a real gullible person to believe anything rene ritchie says about apple. (But if you are this person, please email me immediately - I have a great business investment for you!)
"hello...yes...I hear you are selling ocean front property in Arizona and I'm very interested!"
I don't recall seeing SSD speeds when I last ordered Windows computers from either Microsoft or Dell. I see the type yes but not the MB/s in the spec sheet.
The work that was demonstrated in these video "reviews". This is geared towards basic Office work and browsing. Not Final Cut or Photoshop or Lightroom work.
Its not just Apple, I wouldn't consider this good for Adobe Premiere work either - https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/sho...top/spd/latitude-15-5520-laptop/s003l552015us
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I admit im not really a Rene Ritchie fan... though I concede the rage filled opening montage was kinda nice,
but what is his point, and I'm asking seriously here and in good faith because I genuinely don't understand it.
That abstractly we are all collectively to blame, the general public because we 'fall victim to click bait stuff,' and all that and tech video clicks are down apparently, and 'fairy tales of eternal economic growth', etc. of and downloading benchmark apps with ease isnt reflective of the real world experience?
MKBHD just put out his review on M2 Air and is surprisingly vocal about getting the 512gb model as 8gb saturates quick and relies on SSD for swap and that matters in real world stuff, halved performance and also leaned into recommending the M1 Air still too for the price. He pretty much went so far as to suggest you should get the $1499 M2 Air or not at all, and if you get up there in price and specs the 14"M1 Pro MBP is easily much more suited. He said its deceptively priced.
That IS a spicy take for someone tied to Apple well like Marques.
--
and the reality is beyond it making a real world difference, for some, and admittedly easy to see for people not pushing machines at all not a cause of concern in the slightest - that the app is the constant and the hardware variation is the difference. It's one thing if M2 Air 256 is like faster than M1 Air but the benchmark app is misreporting the details because of a missing driver or whatever. But it is what it is here numerically speaking.
Apple even admitted they are slower ('a difference') and explained its because the single chip but put Apple spin on it:
"These new systems use a new higher density NAND that delivers 256GB storage using a single chip. While benchmarks of the 256GB SSD may show a difference compared to the previous generation, the performance of these M2 based systems for real world activities are even faster."
In some cases yes, in others no (imo).
But to casual computer users, 256gb with halved speed isnt gonna really make a difference especially with nothing else to compare it to. And to some people woh just want a new form factor even going m1 to m2 and a bigger screen brighter screen and those physical changes and magsafe, more power to ya they do look nice and I could easily see that outweighing 'sweating the benchmarks'
It would rustle my feathers, but if a good M2 Air sale came along it would be harder to resist possibly
not gonna lie.
but I feel like I dont want to get rid of this amazing m1 air even if I got that, and do I really need a third Mac laptop
--
Also I feel Apple themselves are part of 'toxic benchmark culture' because at their keynotes for new A(x) series chips and iPhones they always tout numerical performance boost figures.
but what is his point, and I'm asking seriously here and in good faith because I genuinely don't understand it.
That abstractly we are all collectively to blame, the general public because we 'fall victim to click bait stuff,' and all that and tech video clicks are down apparently, and 'fairy tales of eternal economic growth', etc. of and downloading benchmark apps with ease isnt reflective of the real world experience?
MKBHD just put out his review on M2 Air and is surprisingly vocal about getting the 512gb model as 8gb saturates quick and relies on SSD for swap and that matters in real world stuff, halved performance and also leaned into recommending the M1 Air still too for the price. He pretty much went so far as to suggest you should get the $1499 M2 Air or not at all, and if you get up there in price and specs the 14"M1 Pro MBP is easily much more suited. He said its deceptively priced.
That IS a spicy take for someone tied to Apple well like Marques.
--
and the reality is beyond it making a real world difference, for some, and admittedly easy to see for people not pushing machines at all not a cause of concern in the slightest - that the app is the constant and the hardware variation is the difference. It's one thing if M2 Air 256 is like faster than M1 Air but the benchmark app is misreporting the details because of a missing driver or whatever. But it is what it is here numerically speaking.
Apple even admitted they are slower ('a difference') and explained its because the single chip but put Apple spin on it:
"These new systems use a new higher density NAND that delivers 256GB storage using a single chip. While benchmarks of the 256GB SSD may show a difference compared to the previous generation, the performance of these M2 based systems for real world activities are even faster."
In some cases yes, in others no (imo).
But to casual computer users, 256gb with halved speed isnt gonna really make a difference especially with nothing else to compare it to. And to some people woh just want a new form factor even going m1 to m2 and a bigger screen brighter screen and those physical changes and magsafe, more power to ya they do look nice and I could easily see that outweighing 'sweating the benchmarks'
It would rustle my feathers, but if a good M2 Air sale came along it would be harder to resist possibly
not gonna lie.but I feel like I dont want to get rid of this amazing m1 air even if I got that, and do I really need a third Mac laptop
--
Also I feel Apple themselves are part of 'toxic benchmark culture' because at their keynotes for new A(x) series chips and iPhones they always tout numerical performance boost figures.
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Come on. Literally the buy page for the Macbook Air is a picture of it running Final Cut.
If you're just one of those types that wants to argue your point at all costs regardless of where the truth lies, so be it.
Oh you mean like when the M1 Macbook Air came out
its only a problem when it shows an Achilles heel of a product not when it glorifies it as 'must have'
Jelly gate 'youre looking at it wrong'
the reality Is some of these things really bother people and for others they dont even notice it. then the other camp they are aware but the pro's largely outweigh the cons.
I feel the same about jelly gate; probably not a deal breaker but it does bother me that it wasn't there on the previous generation. an upgrade should be an upgrade or at least parity. at least. I understand it doesnt always work that way but it should
do I blame Rene Ritchie and YouTubers for these products' technical shortcomings? Or the customers? That's ridiculous: neither. I blame Apple they make the products.
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Interesting - I haven't used Final Cut, but I ran Lightroom on my M1 Mac Mini w/ 8GB RAM and it ran great.
In most cases, It's assumed that as long as it's the same type and interface, performance will be roughly similar with storage size being the only key difference. And if there's discrepancy, plenty of YouTubers would be pointing that out as well. We are in Apple focused forum so the discussion is around Apple. It doesn't mean the criticism doesn't happen elsewhere.
For example, Plenty of tech YouTubers and reviewers criticizing various SSD manufacturers for using slower NAND/less cache on their SSDs despite carrying the same brand and model numbers as their faster performing ones.
“But really….who cares about any of this? Life is too short to obsess over how much faster the Mac is from the other Mac.”
That was actually the main part of Ritchie’s argument. So many people are using benchmarks badly or are doing tests that are not representative of actual workflows and then screaming about how terrible each new computer is. {And don’t forget to like and subscribe to my channel}
If one were to take a little stroll down Youtube way, they can find all sorts of opinions, tests, and real-world cases that show how various hardware performs (and apps and OS). I find it funny that the gentleman in the video acts if hype is something new. Car ads have been during it for decades as have other product makers. How people see hardware comes from various needs. Some simply want what is the "hottest" or most powerful while others are figuring how to get the best bang for their buck and maybe a few look at how they want to use a machine and then figure out the app, what the app needs to run and what is an ideal setup and so on.
For me, I am looking at a couple of Apple products to see how they fair in reviews (on Youtube) - Studio Max and MBP 14" Pro and Max along with suggested RAM for photography and for video work. I find that many opinions overlap, some differ and many do include benchmarks as part of the presentation package. Those videos that just show benchmarks are well ... wasting my time unless they are specific to scenarios that might impact my use then I need to investigate further with examples of real-world challenges with the apps I am interested in and how the hardware is set up, etc.
For me, I am looking at a couple of Apple products to see how they fair in reviews (on Youtube) - Studio Max and MBP 14" Pro and Max along with suggested RAM for photography and for video work. I find that many opinions overlap, some differ and many do include benchmarks as part of the presentation package. Those videos that just show benchmarks are well ... wasting my time unless they are specific to scenarios that might impact my use then I need to investigate further with examples of real-world challenges with the apps I am interested in and how the hardware is set up, etc.
I don't agree with Apple's marketing. I don't agree with companies marketing in general. Not Microsoft "Windows 11 is the best gaming OS ever!" or NVDIA marketing. This Macbook Air is in no way suitable for Final Cut Pro work. My M1 Mac Mini was barely enough and I don't do a lot of heavy editing. Plus it had 16GB of RAM and 2 TB of storage.
If you want to buy in to Apple's marketing and think this will be an amazing Final Cut Pro system, go ahead. I don't believe in marketing no matter who it is.
8/256GB is a non starter for heavy workloads. Even on Windows. MAYBE this performs well in Final Cut Pro MAXED out, but like I said the 14" MBP is a better buy at that point.
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As someone that uses my Mac for work the main thing I look for in the benchmarks are workloads that are identical or near-identical to what I will be using the Mac for.
The whole reason channels like Maxtech show so many benchmarks is to cover as many use cases as possible. I am not going to those benchmark videos and looking at 40 minutes of tasks that don't apply to me, I'm looking at the 5-6 minutes that do.
Rene Ritchie I feel is pandering hard to Apple and has been for a long time. I've watched a whole bunch of his videos and they often feel like he's trying to insert himself into Apples good graces to receive review units, to be invited to Cupertino etc - Very much following the iJustine route but with a bit more technical detail than she does.
Personally I'm not a fan. Benchmarks are very important especially when Apple constantly releases misleading benchmarks (like them showing a chart with the M1 Ultra being comparable to an RTX 3090, a plain lie as shown by independent benchmarking where the RTX 3090 is 75% to 349% faster depending on workload).
Also his segway into the sponsor of the video at the end of this rant.. jesus, so tone deaf this guy.
The whole reason channels like Maxtech show so many benchmarks is to cover as many use cases as possible. I am not going to those benchmark videos and looking at 40 minutes of tasks that don't apply to me, I'm looking at the 5-6 minutes that do.
Rene Ritchie I feel is pandering hard to Apple and has been for a long time. I've watched a whole bunch of his videos and they often feel like he's trying to insert himself into Apples good graces to receive review units, to be invited to Cupertino etc - Very much following the iJustine route but with a bit more technical detail than she does.
Personally I'm not a fan. Benchmarks are very important especially when Apple constantly releases misleading benchmarks (like them showing a chart with the M1 Ultra being comparable to an RTX 3090, a plain lie as shown by independent benchmarking where the RTX 3090 is 75% to 349% faster depending on workload).
Also his segway into the sponsor of the video at the end of this rant.. jesus, so tone deaf this guy.
So let’s break this down: Some people are upset by the fact that certain configurations of M2 systems do not perform as well as similarly configured M1 systems.
Another group of people are just as upset that there is a group of people upset by that, besides it not having any direct impact on their opinion.
Sounds like another day in the Outrage Economy of the internet.
I’m glad Rene was able to take advantage of the situation and generate himself some views and ad dollars while fanning the flames a little longer.
I don’t know, maybe try making a useful/productive video acknowledging the under performing benchmarks, why they are under performing, what situations or workflows that it is likely to have an impact, and what someone should do if they have one of those workflows… The “this computer isn’t meant for that workflow therefore you’re wrong” and “benchmarks are not real” responses so many are having serves no purpose other than to perpetuate self-serving drama like some sort of scripted reality tv show.
I used to really like Rene, but the professional Apple apologist persona really has become too much for me since he transitioned to YouTube. No one should be taking anyone YouTube very seriously anyway as they are always going to tilt their opinion in favor of the algorithm bringing them more views.
Another group of people are just as upset that there is a group of people upset by that, besides it not having any direct impact on their opinion.
Sounds like another day in the Outrage Economy of the internet.
I’m glad Rene was able to take advantage of the situation and generate himself some views and ad dollars while fanning the flames a little longer.
I don’t know, maybe try making a useful/productive video acknowledging the under performing benchmarks, why they are under performing, what situations or workflows that it is likely to have an impact, and what someone should do if they have one of those workflows… The “this computer isn’t meant for that workflow therefore you’re wrong” and “benchmarks are not real” responses so many are having serves no purpose other than to perpetuate self-serving drama like some sort of scripted reality tv show.
I used to really like Rene, but the professional Apple apologist persona really has become too much for me since he transitioned to YouTube. No one should be taking anyone YouTube very seriously anyway as they are always going to tilt their opinion in favor of the algorithm bringing them more views.
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YouTube tech reviewers are pretty annoying across the board. The first and only one I go to for most tech is MKBHD and for iPad Pro content Christopher Lawley.
I find twitter spatter rather trivial in general and inconsequential especially in the world of youtubers exchanging remarks but this exchange made me lol
Clearly I don’t think he does appreciate him since a lot of people felt his video was directed in part at max tech
Should be an interesting awkward dance
Clearly I don’t think he does appreciate him since a lot of people felt his video was directed in part at max tech
Should be an interesting awkward dance
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Why is it that when we coin the term „benchmark“, we are just talking about some number crunching apps like geekbench or crystaldiskmark? There are other factors that contribute to the overall value of a product. For example how sturdy is the device, is the display easy to clean, can it be lifted on one side without putting to much stress on the device? How good is the wlan-coverage? Can the display be used under direct sunlight? „Jelly“-scrolling?
Those and many more things should be covered and not the usual „wow, check it out guys, 10469 points.“
Those and many more things should be covered and not the usual „wow, check it out guys, 10469 points.“
Love his Mac videos. Hate it when he talks iPad Pro for example.