iPhone 6(S)/Plus Replaced Battery. Modified Meh.

[ftaok]

But does a company have a responsibility to their customers to tell them they are making changes to the way their phone performs?

This is a good question. I personally think they should be upfront about how a particular software update will affect performance if it is significant. Folks don't need to know every little detail, but for something like the sudden shut off issue, Apple probably should have been upfront about it.

I would assume most people do not understand lithium battery technology, how the lifespan of the battery is limited, and the conditions which could lead to battery failure. I say it is up to the manufacturer to educate their customers. Tell them that as time goes on battery life diminishes, and what changes they are going to make to the way your phone performs in order to prolong the useful life of your phone and battery. Oh ya, or you could just replace the battery and continue using the phone as is.

While I agree with you that most people don't understand the nuances of lithium batteries and such, I do think that pretty much everyone has a strong grasp on batteries in general. We have all been trained to understand that the more you use a battery, the shorter the usable duration will become. So eventually, a fully charged battery won't be able to power your device/toy/car/whatever for as long as it did when it was new.

The issue that Apple is facing is that over time, the batteries that Apple are using cannot maintain high enough current to prevent the iPhone from shutting down in some circumstances. As I've come to learn (from some forum members) is that all lithium batteries will exhibit a loss in current delivery as the battery ages with use. I don't think this is a widely understood phenomena amongst the general population.

So maybe Apple should have designed/specified batteries that can deliver higher current levels, commensurate with the required current levels of their CPUs/GPUs. I've said this before on other threads, but my belief is that around the time the 6S was released, I think Apple lowered the specs on their batteries. For the most part, the sudden shut-down bug was a 6S issue. So early builds of iPhone6 would have batteries from a good batch, but later ones would have batteries similar in build to the 6S, so that's why throttling affected the 6.

THEORY/HYPOTHESIS - my wife's iPhone6 doesn't exhibit any throttling and is over three years old (92% health). My iPhone6 lasted 2 years on the original battery before being able to hold a decent charge. Replaced the battery (OEM battery from Apple) in late 2016 and I was hit with an underperforming battery leading to throttling. My hope is that Apple learned enough about this battery issue and has begun to specify better batteries in their newer iPhones (and other devices) so as to prevent this from happening again.

 

[bopajuice]

Apple does educate their customers though. Apple has an entire website dedicated to teaching consumers about their batteries. But it's taking responsibility to actually seeking out that knowledge and then following it. People rather just complain and blame others.

https://www.apple.com/batteries/

I am in no way condoning Apple's behavior by hiding this from us, they are at fault for that. But they are not at fault for someone's battery degrading after 2 years.

As to where I live, I'm in the foothills of the Santa Monica mountains. Every summer on regular basis we get 2-3 weeks of 110F+ weather. If thats not extreme, what is? This past summer we reached 116 for 3 days in a row. Heck, even Malibu this summer reached 110+ for 4-5 days in a row.

I stand corrected.

Had no idea it got so hot out there. I grew up in So Cal. I was thinking more of SoCal as being south county, area. My bad. My sister lives in San Clemente and complains it is hot, but her idea of hot is a bit different compared to AZ. When it's 95 degrees out at 10:30 p.m. and night, then we'll talk about hot.

Don't remember it being that extreme on a regular basis in SoCal except if you lived inland. My family is still out there, and they have complained about the hotter weather, but this has only occurred in recent times, and does not last for months and months like it does in AZ. Still I get the idea.

Thanks for the battery info. Did not know about that page. It appears to me though most complaints are about secretly throttling phones, not battery life per say. Still I agree, people will complain regardless.

 

[Mlrollin91]

I stand corrected.

Had no idea it got so hot out there. I grew up in So Cal. I was thinking more of SoCal as being south county, area. My bad. My sister lives in San Clemente and complains it is hot, but her idea of hot is a bit different compared to AZ. When it's 95 degrees out at 10:30 p.m. and night, then we'll talk about hot.

Don't remember it being that extreme on a regular basis in SoCal except if you lived inland. My family is still out there, and they have complained about the hotter weather, but this has only occurred in recent times, and does not last for months and months like it does in AZ. Still I get the idea.

Thanks for the battery info. Did not know about that page. It appears to me though most complaints are about secretly throttling phones, not battery life per say. Still I agree, people will complain regardless.

Yeah, our "Indian Summer" has grown worse and worse over the years. Its progressively getting longer and hotter with each consecutive year. 5 years ago, maybe we would break 110 for a day or two. Now its on a year basis that we get weeks of it. This last September was the worst one yet. I know its no Arizona summer, so I fully appreciate how it may not seem as extreme to you. But with it progressively getting worse, we might not be too far off from Arizona summers.

As to the thread. I think its a mixture of both. The OP out of the gate said that a battery should last more than 2 years, and its up for the courts to decide, which is where I came in and said no.

 

[Raist3001]

You buy a car and to still pay for the maintenance. Even if you lease a car. If you have a dead car battery it's not up to the manufacturer or dealership to replace.

Maintenance is a poor example as a consumer expects to have to maintain their car for warranty repair.

But lets say you buy a high priced sports car and notice that after 2 years, your car is not performing as it should. It's not getting the proper gas mileage, it seems sluggish, and not at all driving properly as it did when it was new. And now suddenly, your car is shutting down while driving. You bring your car into the dealer and he runs a diagnostic and tells you your car checks out fine, but you would be happier in a newer model. You purchase the newer model and you are again happy. What the dealer does not tell you is that during a routine maintenance appointment, a few weeks ago, they install a computer upgrade that slows your car's performance to deal with the random car shut off's. And a simple part change would have corrected the problems with your previous car.

This is not about a dead battery. Obviously batteries wear, degrade and die. This is about apple implementing a fix that throttled devices, caused massive upgrade dollars when all along a simple battery change would have solved the performance issues. Anyone who walked into an apple store experiencing performance issues whose battery had not degraded past a point apple deemed replaceable was denied a battery swap even if the customer wanted to pay for it. Apple never divulged the method it used to combat the battery issues. And never divulged that they were throttling your phone.

Apple apologized because of its poor communication methods. Customers should have been told and then allowed to change their battery if they so wanted.

 

[Mlrollin91]

Maintenance is a poor example as a consumer expects to have to maintain their car for warranty repair.

But lets say you buy a high priced sports car and notice that after 2 years, your car is not performing as it should. It's not getting the proper gas mileage, it seems sluggish, and not at all driving properly as it did when it was new. And now suddenly, your car is shutting down while driving. You bring your car into the dealer and he runs a diagnostic and tells you your car checks out fine, but you would be happier in a newer model. You purchase the newer model and you are again happy. What the dealer does not tell you is that during a routine maintenance appointment, a few weeks ago, they install a computer upgrade that slows your car's performance to deal with the random car shut off's. And a simple part change would have corrected the problems with your previous car.

This is not about a dead battery. Obviously batteries wear, degrade and die. This is about apple implementing a fix that throttled devices, caused massive upgrade dollars when all along a simple battery change would have solved the performance issues. Anyone who walked into an apple store experiencing performance issues whose battery had not degraded past a point apple deemed replaceable was denied a battery swap even if the customer wanted to pay for it. Apple never divulged the method it used to combat the battery issues. And never divulged that they were throttling your phone.

Apple apologized because of its poor communication methods. Customers should have been told and then allowed to change their battery if they so wanted.

That is not the argument in this thread though. That’s what people are confusing. We are strictly talking a battery dying in 2 years. Reread the OP. So while you may be correct with your example for the other threads, it’s not the topic of this one. The OP made it very clear batteries should not degrade within 2 years. Which is absurd. They have a finite life based on their size. 500 cycles for 80% health. An average user will probably use one cycle a day. So the battery will last roughly 500 days. That’s just how it works.

 

[Vermifuge]

Maintenance is a poor example as a consumer expects to have to maintain their car for warranty repair.

But lets say you buy a high priced sports car and notice that after 2 years, your car is not performing as it should.

Sports cars require frequent magininace to maintain peak performance. Future that magininace is often more costly than that of a k car or similar.

 

[Raist3001]

Sports cars require frequent magininace to maintain peak performance. Future that magininace is often more costly than that of a k car or similar.

Ok, my example was poor as well.
There was a point in there though

 

[yangfarmer]

I ordered my replacement battery on Jan 2. I just got a call from apple store staff. They told me I won't get the battery till the beginning of April.

So now the order waiting time is at least 3 month even for people ordered very early like me. This is crazy.

 

[Mlrollin91]

I ordered my replacement battery on Jan 2. I just got a call from apple store staff. They told me I won't get the battery till the beginning of April.

So now the order waiting time is at least 3 month even for people ordered very early like me. This is crazy.

As mentioned above, they have to make the batteries. Batteries can't be mass-produced and stored in a facility. They are too temperamental. But it is likely they are overestimating. Its always better to set expectations low.

 

[yangfarmer]

Apple apologize to us about the way they handled the battery issue, but they made it very hard for us to take the cheap battery offer. Now the waiting time is at least 3 months.

I think We should all complain and make loud noise so that Apple will realign their priority of orders at battery factory(make more batteries for old phones first before make battery for new phones). That is the only way we can get our battery replaced in reasonable timeframe.

 

[Mlrollin91]

Apple apologize to us about the way they handled the battery issue, but they made it very hard for us to take the cheap battery offer. Now the waiting time is at least 3 months.

I think We should all complain and make loud noise so that Apple will realign their priority of orders at battery factory(make more batteries for old phones first before make battery for new phones). That is the only way we can get our battery replaced in reasonable timeframe.

You're kidding right? They are not even the same battery. Hell, they are probably coming from different places.

 

[eyeseeyou]

I thought I’d read a story some time ago about a power generator of sorts that outputs more power than it takes to run it, but the invention was shutdown. I’ve wondered at times if someone ever invented a battery that never wears out, if big corporations and/or government would allow it to exist, like that power generator..

 

[Vermifuge]

Apple apologize to us about the way they handled the battery issue, but they made it very hard for us to take the cheap battery offer. Now the waiting time is at least 3 months.

I think We should all complain and make loud noise so that Apple will realign their priority of orders at battery factory(make more batteries for old phones first before make battery for new phones). That is the only way we can get our battery replaced in reasonable timeframe.

honestly.. it wasn't much of an apology. It was like... not "sorry we made a mistake" but more like "were sorry you think we made a mistake" its a big difference if you look at the actual wording.

 

[C DM]

honestly.. it wasn't much of an apology. It was like... not "sorry we made a mistake" but more like "were sorry you think we made a mistake" its a big difference if you look at the actual wording.

It could have been just something along the lines of "You are holding it wrong."

 

[yangfarmer]

honestly.. it wasn't much of an apology. It was like... not "sorry we made a mistake" but more like "were sorry you think we made a mistake" its a big difference if you look at the actual wording.

We only got that apology only after somebody kicked their butt.
[doublepost=1515552778][/doublepost]519 millions iphones are qualify for the battery swap. Apple reportedly has 47,000 retail employees. If they trained all of them to do iPhone battery swaps, and they did nothing but that, it would take 2.7 years to clear out the backlog.

If 20% of users take the offer, it'd still take half year . That is assuming no long waiting time for battery and all staff are working on the swap.

 

[Mlrollin91]

View attachment 746122

Thanks for that. Needed the lightheartedness. Things around MacRumors are getting quite tense.

 

[macfacts]

I think there’s enough precedent that Apple won’t be held accountable. You buy a car and to still pay for the maintenance. Even if you lease a car. If you have a dead car battery it's not up to the manufacturer or dealership to replace.

Cars have warning light when there is a problem.

 

[Vermifuge]

Cars have warning light when there is a problem.

Had a Hyundai that would beg to differ. There was always something wrong that didn't trigger the ODB or the check engine light.

 

[macfacts]

I stopped reading here.

All batteries have a life cycle. All. Has nothing to do with Android vs iPhone. Mac vs PC. iPhones are rated for 80% after 500 cycles. That’s their lifespawn. Samsung phones are the same. Macs and iPads are rated for 1000 cycles because they have larger batteries.
....

Apple implemented the throttling when the iPhone 6s was only 1 year old. Stop parroting the narrative of old batteries.

 

[Vermifuge]

Apple implemented the throttling when the iPhone 6s was only 1 year old. Stop parroting the narrative of old batteries.

It's not the days, months or years that matter, it's the charge cycles. So yeah, you should do a little more reading ;-)

 

[Mlrollin91]

Apple implemented the throttling when the iPhone 6s was only 1 year old. Stop parroting the narrative of old batteries.

Talking about cycle count. Not age of the battery. Age is irreverent.

 

[macfacts]

It's not the days, months or years that matter, it's the charge cycles. So yeah, you should do a little more reading ;-)

So a large portion of people had used over 500 cycles in 360 days? I find that hard to believe. More likely scenario is that the batteries were bad from the start.

 

[Vermifuge]

So a large portion of people had used over 500 cycles in 360 days? I find that hard to believe. More likely scenario is that the batteries were bad from the start.

Charging 2x a day isn't all that uncommon specially for someone who might game heavily. Or just leaving it plugged in all day as you use it. So no, not as farfetched as you seem to think.

 

[Mlrollin91]

So a large portion of people had used over 500 cycles in 360 days? I find that hard to believe. More likely scenario is that the batteries were bad from the start.

Well. Let’s see. I, myself am a medium to heavy user. I’ve had my phone for just over 105 days and I have 134 cycles on my 8Plus. And I get 8-10 hours of usage per charge. Based on that amount, I will use 470 cycles in a year.

The average user probably uses roughly one cycle a day. Thus, it would last 500 days. Well under the 2 year period the OP is complaining about. And he says 2 Years is too short.

 

[eyeseeyou]

Well. Let’s see. I, myself am a medium to heavy user. I’ve had my phone for just over 105 days and I have 134 cycles on my 8Plus. And I get 8-10 hours of usage per charge. Based on that amount, I will use 470 cycles in a year.

The average user probably uses roughly one cycle a day. Thus, it would last 500 days. Well under the 2 year period the OP is complaining about. And he says 2 Years is too short.

Snapchat/Instagram/Twitter/Facebook all day eat up A LOT of battery man lol