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Macbook vs. Macbook Pro

It must depend a lot on what your intentions are for your computer. I bought the core duo 2.0Ghz Macbook Pro myself, and after seeing the Macbook and its specs - I'm *so* glad I got the "Pro" and didn't wait around for this thing.

All of these "Macbook Pro is way overpriced!" comments seem to ignore the fact that it was priced quite competitively with something having a practically identical configuration (minus the iSight camera you get on a Macbook Pro) from Dell and others.

Having an ATI x1600 video with 256MB of video RAM built-in is a HUGE factor in my purchase! If you look at, say, the latest issue of Computer Shopper magazine where they compare "20 new, popular notebooks" - you'll see that the Macbook Pro's video is superior to just about everything else in their list.

Even in the world of desktop Windows PCs, I'd *never* be satisfied with a system that only offered one of Intel's integrated video options. The first thing most Windows users do with such a motherboard is buy a new AGP or PCI Express video card from ATI or nVidia and install it, bypassing the integrated video.

I *do* want to be able to play games on my notebook. It's not realistic for me to say "Oh, I can live without a fast video card and just use this machine for business-related stuff." Yes, I do use it for work practically every day (web site design and updates, etc.) - but I could do that on a $300 used Windows laptop too. The whole point of this purchase was owning a notebook with impressive specs all the way around, that can handle whatever I might throw at it. I do some video editing here and there (especially those videos taken over the holidays), some gaming here and there, a little bit of photo editing/retouching, a little generic work in MS Office, and who knows what else? No point in spending $1000+ on a Macbook that can't do some things any better than a 3 year old, cheapie Windows laptop (3D gaming, etc.).


bloodycape said:
Some very good news here. This review/test made my choice even easier. I think I will be go MB over a refreshed MBP and use the saving for a bigger hd.
 
Benchmarks in the ARS Technica Review Indicate MacBook Can Do Almost All Pros Can

Yes but Benchmarks in the ARS Technica Review indicates MacBook can do almost all a MacBook pro can do right now - albiet with a smaller screen, but one that can span to a 1920 x 1200 monitor. I know these numbers have got to be difficult to swallow for early adopters of MacBook Pro. And I understand why you are glad you bought early anyway. I'm glad you're happy with it.
kingtj said:
It must depend a lot on what your intentions are for your computer. I bought the core duo 2.0Ghz Macbook Pro myself, and after seeing the Macbook and its specs - I'm *so* glad I got the "Pro" and didn't wait around for this thing.

All of these "Macbook Pro is way overpriced!" comments seem to ignore the fact that it was priced quite competitively with something having a practically identical configuration (minus the iSight camera you get on a Macbook Pro) from Dell and others.

Having an ATI x1600 video with 256MB of video RAM built-in is a HUGE factor in my purchase! If you look at, say, the latest issue of Computer Shopper magazine where they compare "20 new, popular notebooks" - you'll see that the Macbook Pro's video is superior to just about everything else in their list.

Even in the world of desktop Windows PCs, I'd *never* be satisfied with a system that only offered one of Intel's integrated video options. The first thing most Windows users do with such a motherboard is buy a new AGP or PCI Express video card from ATI or nVidia and install it, bypassing the integrated video.

I *do* want to be able to play games on my notebook. It's not realistic for me to say "Oh, I can live without a fast video card and just use this machine for business-related stuff." Yes, I do use it for work practically every day (web site design and updates, etc.) - but I could do that on a $300 used Windows laptop too. The whole point of this purchase was owning a notebook with impressive specs all the way around, that can handle whatever I might throw at it. I do some video editing here and there (especially those videos taken over the holidays), some gaming here and there, a little bit of photo editing/retouching, a little generic work in MS Office, and who knows what else? No point in spending $1000+ on a Macbook that can't do some things any better than a 3 year old, cheapie Windows laptop (3D gaming, etc.).
 
kingtj said:
Having an ATI x1600 video with 256MB of video RAM built-in is a HUGE factor in my purchase! If you look at, say, the latest issue of Computer Shopper magazine where they compare "20 new, popular notebooks" - you'll see that the Macbook Pro's video is superior to just about everything else in their list.
You have to remeber one thing about the graphic card, Apple supposidly crippled the x1600 so an x1600 used in another company should be faster because it is running at normal or even at a faster rate. Additionally at the time the MBP(at least when the 17) came out there was the X1800 on market apple could have gone for. But I am in no way knocking what apple put in the MBP just wondering why they underclocked it.
 
i just got my brother to order one of these. he has been a journalist for the past 7 years and has never owned his own computer. now seeing that video of the guy removing the RAM and harddrive i feel even more confident in his purchase (note: i checked toshiba and we actually saved money when comparing their offering of the Core Duo to Apple's). now he can upgrade the RAM and harddrive with no problem! he got the 80Gb drive and 512Mb of RAM... so i figure i can help him upgrade it for his birthday and Christmas.
 
Video of Changing Hard Drive and RAM Link

octoberdeath said:
i just got my brother to order one of these. he has been a journalist for the past 7 years and has never owned his own computer. now seeing that video of the guy removing the RAM and harddrive i feel even more confident in his purchase (note: i checked toshiba and we actually saved money when comparing their offering of the Core Duo to Apple's). now he can upgrade the RAM and harddrive with no problem! he got the 80Gb drive and 512Mb of RAM... so i figure i can help him upgrade it for his birthday and Christmas.
Here's that LINK to the Video of Changing Hard Drive and RAM.
 
Multimedia said:
Would you please provide us the LINK to the Video of Changing Hard Drive and RAM?Thanks in advance for your help.
Try the first post on the first page of this thread!

In other news...i just purchased 2x1GB sticks of RAM from DMS (Econoram) and the Hitachi Travelstar 7200rpm 100GB HD from OWC. I will post back on performance increases once they come in and are installed. Too bad the HD wont be here until Friday (they were out of stock).
 
mavherzog said:
Did you have the universal binary patch installed??
Yes, I did. But maybe somehow it opened via Rosetta anyway? I didn't check Get Info.

Multimedia said:
Please explain what the Universal Binary Patch is and where we get it to install it and why Mavherzog. Thank you in advance for your help.

It's on MacGameFiles.com, and Universal means an app will run at full native speed on BOTH PowerPC and Intel processors.
 
kingtj said:
It must depend a lot on what your intentions are for your computer. I bought the core duo 2.0Ghz Macbook Pro myself, and after seeing the Macbook and its specs - I'm *so* glad I got the "Pro" and didn't wait around for this thing.

All of these "Macbook Pro is way overpriced!" comments seem to ignore the fact that it was priced quite competitively with something having a practically identical configuration (minus the iSight camera you get on a Macbook Pro) from Dell and others.

Having an ATI x1600 video with 256MB of video RAM built-in is a HUGE factor in my purchase! If you look at, say, the latest issue of Computer Shopper magazine where they compare "20 new, popular notebooks" - you'll see that the Macbook Pro's video is superior to just about everything else in their list.

Even in the world of desktop Windows PCs, I'd *never* be satisfied with a system that only offered one of Intel's integrated video options. The first thing most Windows users do with such a motherboard is buy a new AGP or PCI Express video card from ATI or nVidia and install it, bypassing the integrated video.

I *do* want to be able to play games on my notebook. It's not realistic for me to say "Oh, I can live without a fast video card and just use this machine for business-related stuff." Yes, I do use it for work practically every day (web site design and updates, etc.) - but I could do that on a $300 used Windows laptop too. The whole point of this purchase was owning a notebook with impressive specs all the way around, that can handle whatever I might throw at it. I do some video editing here and there (especially those videos taken over the holidays), some gaming here and there, a little bit of photo editing/retouching, a little generic work in MS Office, and who knows what else? No point in spending $1000+ on a Macbook that can't do some things any better than a 3 year old, cheapie Windows laptop (3D gaming, etc.).

I think that comparing MB 2.0 (white) with MBP lower end having same speed, superdrive and same ports, $700 difference don't justify a bit more of real estate screen, the graphic card and 20Gb more hard disk. Just my opinion. I'm glad you are happy with your MBP, but since for what I do the graphic is enough I prefer spend that extra money in memory and hard disk (actually not even "all" that money since the upgrade with the 2 gb & 160Gb will cost aprox. $450) :)
 
Leong said:
My 12" PBook 867 MHz/640Mb only takes 6 seconds to open MS Word 2004 !!! :D Any explanation for that?
Ya -- opening an app is a function of the speed of the hard drive and how large the app is (plus what and how the code loads at launch - like how many plugins, language support files, fonts, dictionaries etc.)

Its a really useless way to compare performance because it has little to do with CPU, Video or RAM.
 
Macbook graphics

Everyone at this point is probably tired of treading over the same topic of the integrated graphics of the macbook but do have one point to bring up. Just received my 2.0ghz macbook and upgraded the ram to 2gb and was hoping that the graphics at a minimum would play a dvd at a clean resolution or photos in clarity. Unfortunately both appear grainy and the pixels are pretty glaring. I realize this isnt a performance system and wasnt purchased for that reason but an entry level system should be able to play something as a dvd at a decent resolution or view pictures as such. I have it set to full screen resolution but is there something i may be missing? (aside from comments that the integrated graphics are horrendous).
 
http://shopping.zdnet.co.uk/0,39033137,24628867,00.htm

would this ram be suitable in a Macbook? if so, i could get it for about £80

Edit: hmm, i dont think it is. dang

EDIT.. 2: right, just had another look on Crucials' UK site and got these.

1GB (2x512MB) http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/MPa...+Intel+Core+Duo+(13-inch+White)&WSPN=CT541620

2GB (2x1GB) http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/MPa...+Intel+Core+Duo+(13-inch+White)&WSPN=CT541623

Reason i mention this is because Apple UK charge £70.01 for 1GB and £350.01 for 2GB.

Off that website, the 1GB costs more than Apple, and 2GB costs less. :eek:
 
miyamoto said:
Everyone at this point is probably tired of treading over the same topic of the integrated graphics of the macbook but do have one point to bring up. Just received my 2.0ghz macbook and upgraded the ram to 2gb and was hoping that the graphics at a minimum would play a dvd at a clean resolution or photos in clarity. Unfortunately both appear grainy and the pixels are pretty glaring. I realize this isnt a performance system and wasnt purchased for that reason but an entry level system should be able to play something as a dvd at a decent resolution or view pictures as such. I have it set to full screen resolution but is there something i may be missing? (aside from comments that the integrated graphics are horrendous).

Sorry to hear that. Mine plays DVD's flawlessly. Hell, it plays HD clips at 1080 just fine... Have you adjusted the viewing angle? I noticed that my wallpaper looks grainy if I do not have the viewing angle right.
 
Apple DIY Hard Drive Replacement Manual

Just saw this over on the Apple Support Forums, and i havent seen it posted here yet:
(the following link leads to a .pdf download)
http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/MacBook_13inch_HardDrive_DIY.pdf.

Yeah, an official Apple manual that tells you how to replace your HD. Brilliant and great news for us MB and potential MB owners!:D :) :D

Oh, link to the original discussion on the Apple Forums if anyone is interested: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=493496&tstart=0
 
nospleen said:
Sorry to hear that. Mine plays DVD's flawlessly. Hell, it plays HD clips at 1080 just fine... Have you adjusted the viewing angle? I noticed that my wallpaper looks grainy if I do not have the viewing angle right.

Nope, the viewing angle doesnt seem to be the problem. My old notebook used integrated graphics and seems to have run dvds and photos more clearly. Not sure if i expect too much out of this notebook.

As an aside, this is my first mac. Its been two days without windows and have to admit, like what i see so far aside from the above issue.
 
I know the others have mentioned the Momentus 5400.3 not shipping until July, but NewEgg seems to be selling it now for $224.99 and is on stock. 3 user comments so far.

Edit: Never mind. My eyes glossed ATA-6 for SATA. Sigh!

To make up for that, those who are looking for RAM, you might want to check out Outpost's Mushkin 1GB PC2 5300 SO-DIMM for $67.99 + S/H + Tax after $20 mail-in rebate (good til 5/25 only though).
 
Shamlessly ignoring the ongoing discussion, is there anyone else who is a bit pissed off because they slap in 2x256 RAM sticks instead of one 512? I was hoping you could simply get another 1 gb stick from an 3rd party dealer(ie much cheaper than applestore) and try it out with 1,5 gb's to see if that was enough. Now you'd only have 1,25 gb's and a 256 mb stick that is unused(which you could possibly sell for some spare change i guess).

I dunno, maybe this is standard procedure or something but i thought it was a bit cheap.
 
How Much RAM Is Needed? One GB Per Core Say Experts

Murdock said:
Shamlessly ignoring the ongoing discussion, is there anyone else who is a bit pissed off because they slap in 2x256 RAM sticks instead of one 512? I was hoping you could simply get another 1 gb stick from an 3rd party dealer(ie much cheaper than applestore) and try it out with 1,5 gb's to see if that was enough. Now you'd only have 1,25 gb's and a 256 mb stick that is unused(which you could possibly sell for some spare change i guess).

I dunno, maybe this is standard procedure or something but i thought it was a bit cheap.
512 is twice the minimum specification for 10.4 and Apple makes a lot of money on their ram upgrades. Just buy two 1 GB OPTIVAL sticks from Omni via Ramseeker.com for $144 and be done with it. No point in experimenting when you know 1GB per core is considered by experts is a rule of thumb minimum for best performance. I know I plan on replacing the 1GB sticks with 2GB sticks as soon as they are commercially viable and about 150% more expensive - IE $225 per 2GB stick or so, hoping by the end of 2007.

While Apple says 2GB is the max, fact is 2GB sticks will work when they finally come to market at a reasonable price. Right now they are so expensive most vendors don't even try to sell them. :(
 
2GB Econoram from DMS

Just got my 2x1GB kit of Econoram from DMS ($185). Popped it in (setting the RAM does require a bit of pressure, but not bad), and ran Memtest in single-user mode.

No problems at all and my MB is responding faster. Rosetta performance is also improved. Happy camper here!
 
miyamoto said:
Nope, the viewing angle doesnt seem to be the problem. My old notebook used integrated graphics and seems to have run dvds and photos more clearly. Not sure if i expect too much out of this notebook.

As an aside, this is my first mac. Its been two days without windows and have to admit, like what i see so far aside from the above issue.

My Macbook (see Sig) plays DVDs and 720p Video flawlessly. The only bad thing on Macs is they don't have vertical sync, so sometimes you see 2 half pictures overlines, what gives you horizontal lines at fast motion scenes (especially awful at horizontal camera movement). But that's on the quad powermac too...

I can play HL2 at medium settings with 50 fps at full resolution on my Macbook. Doesn't look as pretty as full everything settings on my iMac, but it's okay. I think you could compare the GMA to an ATI 9600 (mobility) on 3D stuff. I have that specific card in my PC laptop and the results are similar.

You might want to show the Macbook playing a DVD to an store employee and eventually return your Macbook. I would if it couldn't do DVDs.
 
{MacBook + Cinema 23} Vs. MacBook Pro

Multimedia said:
Did a pixel comparison between 17" MBP + 17" Apple Monitor vs. MacBook + 24" Dell 1920x1200 WS. Turns out the MacBook + Dell 24" WS setup would give you over a quarter million more pixels of desktop space for less than the price of the 17" MacBook Pro alone.
It gets even better if you substitute Dell's 2405FPW, which currently can be bought on U.S. eBay, new, for as little as $735 shipped. On eBay, the shipped price is falling by $3 to $5 a week.

On the other hand, for someone wishing to run a 30-inch display (2560 x 1680), the MacBook Pro's built-in support represents an outstanding value...and the only viable Mac laptop.

By the way, Dell's 30-incher--the 3007wfp--is now on eBay for as low as $1540 shipped! On eBay, the shipped price is falling by $5 to $8 a week.
 
MrCrowbar said:
My Macbook (see Sig) plays DVDs and 720p Video flawlessly. The only bad thing on Macs is they don't have vertical sync, so sometimes you see 2 half pictures overlines, what gives you horizontal lines at fast motion scenes (especially awful at horizontal camera movement). But that's on the quad powermac too...

I can play HL2 at medium settings with 50 fps at full resolution on my Macbook. Doesn't look as pretty as full everything settings on my iMac, but it's okay. I think you could compare the GMA to an ATI 9600 (mobility) on 3D stuff. I have that specific card in my PC laptop and the results are similar.

You might want to show the Macbook playing a DVD to an store employee and eventually return your Macbook. I would if it couldn't do DVDs.

How smooth does HL2 run? I was very close to buying one last week, but decided against it because I'm a big fan of Counter-Strike Source.
 
adding RAM

MrCrowbar said:
No problem at all. There s indeed truth in the concept of paired RAM, but the difference is not noticable or really measurable. Apple just puts twi 256 DIMMS in there because it's cheaper than one 512 DIMM.
I ordered mine with 1Gig of RAM. If I want to upgrade it to 2Gigs, do I buy a 1Gig module ? Will it come with a 1Gig in one bay and nothing in the other ?
or do they accomplish 1Gig with two 512's ??
Any suggestions on where to buy RAM ?? I used to buy from Chip Merchant, but haven't recently.
thanks,
 
Replace stock MacBook HD with Hitachi 7200 HD

faintember said:
Try the first post on the first page of this thread!

In other news...i just purchased 2x1GB sticks of RAM from DMS (Econoram) and the Hitachi Travelstar 7200rpm 100GB HD from OWC. I will post back on performance increases once they come in and are installed. Too bad the HD wont be here until Friday (they were out of stock).


Faintember,

Were you able to get the HD replaced and run a speed test? I am really curious to find out what the increased speed did for using applications. When I replaced the 5400 HD on my tower with a 7200 I was able to see the difference to the eye. Thanks.
 
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