Report: Apple Nearing Agreement With EU Over App Store Rules

[con2apple]

The irony is the EU is acting as a gatekeeper itself and its fine structure is absolutely bananas - the idea daily fines amounting to 5% global revenue is just insanity, massive overreach.

Calling the EU nice is overly generous, they just using bully tactics to bring companies to the negotiating table - possibly even worse than how Trump has done it.

The EU is an association of states. This makes it more efficient and effective for every citizen and every company.

Oh, you know what... anyone who refers to a state or association of states as a “gatekeeper” has spent too long in the American education and media system.

It would be like arguing with a flat-earther.

 

[surferfb]

That may be true for Americans living in the US, but it doesn't apply to those living in the EU. The EU does not have a federal government, period!

It's a bit funny why Americans living in the US are so concerned about EU regulations.

They impact us regardless of whether or not we live there. And I wouldn’t be so sure “compromise” will mean that you get everything you want.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

The latest EC press conferences about this topic give me a different vibe: https://audiovisual.ec.europa.eu/en/media/video/I-277703

That’s what they feel they have to say. But, the fact that they are actually meeting with the gatekeepers to get something completed and closed is a significant departure from the way Vestager would not let regulators meet with them.

 

[con2apple]

The EU needs to stop with their money grabbing overreaching policies and acting like they run the planet

Numbers speak for themselves:

Fact Check: Has the economic gap between Europe and the United States increased in the past decade? | Econofact

econofact.org

What I always find funny about such figures is that they refer to facts that have nothing to do with normal people.

As a normal person with a normal job, you couldn't care less how much the US GDP has grown. Because as a normal working person, you don't benefit from it in any way.

This is because GDP is fed by the economic figures of large companies. So, for example, if Bank of America issues $50 billion in loans, that increases GDP. If Apple sells more devices again, that's part of GDP.

Now tell me, when was the last time your life improved because GDP rose?
Never. There are developing countries with massive GDPs where 90% of the people are starving. Because GDP never reaches the citizens.

 

[Shirasaki]

The EU needs to stop with their money grabbing overreaching policies and acting like they run the planet

Numbers speak for themselves:

Fact Check: Has the economic gap between Europe and the United States increased in the past decade? | Econofact

econofact.org

Umm I think the country where Apple one campus is located should do the same, but extend to military and more.

 

[DelayedGratificationGene]

Macrumors is it possible you can end some of your articles with a “macrumors take”…your organization is as about as knowledgeable as one can get concerning Apple and so I think your thoughts would be appreciated by many. Thanks!

 

[turbineseaplane]

The EU is an association of states. This makes it more efficient and effective for every citizen and every company.

Oh, you know what... anyone who refers to a state or association of states as a “gatekeeper” has spent too long in the American education and media system.

It would be like arguing with a flat-earther.

You'll have to forgive us Americans. As I've been reminded recently in discussions with some college age relatives, we are absolutely inundated with neo-liberal brainwashing in our schools here.

The indoctrination of this as "the only and best way" is on par with religious indoctrination.
It's actually pretty impressive (and depressing).

 

[Shirasaki]

Now tell me, when was the last time your life improved because GDP rose?
Never. There are developing countries with massive GDPs where 90% of the people are starving. Because GDP never reaches the citizens.

Exactly. Just because a country has high GDP doesn’t mean their citizens would benefit from it, unless we are talking about national pride then idk maybe.

 

[chmania]

They impact us regardless of whether or not we live there.

How?

And I wouldn’t be so sure “compromise” will mean that you get everything you want.

One way or another, we’ll get them. Twenty-seven countries have to agree, whether they are small or large.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Now tell me, when was the last time your life improved because GDP rose?
Never. There are developing countries with massive GDPs where 90% of the people are starving. Because GDP never reaches the citizens.

The ruling class of the US keeps all the little people focused on the scoreboard for a game they aren't even really playing. It's a great point.

This is somewhat related to all the Americans who think they too will someday be one of "the rich people", so we better not regulate them too much! "Soon that will be me!"

(narrator) It never ends up being them, and instead they suffer through a far poorer quality of life than if they'd simply vote their actual interests.

 

[Shirasaki]

You'll have to forgive us Americans. As I've been reminded recently in discussions with some college age relatives, we are absolutely inundated with neo-liberal brainwashing in our schools here.

The indoctrination of this as "the only and best way" is on par with religious indoctrination.
It's actually pretty impressive (and depressing).

And I thought its nemesis doing the same was bad. Turns out they are two sides of a coin after all.

 

[turbineseaplane]

But let's definitely stay focused on making sure MEGACORP can do whatever it wants!

(like remove Apps from your phone that Trump doesn't like)

😞

 

[Unregistered 4U]

This is the only way to deal with entities the size and scale of Apple.

China appeared to deal with them just fine by restricting sales of new products until their needs were met. Indonesia as well. Fines are, apparently, not the ONLY way to deal with entities the size and scale of Apple. And, actually, not even the most effective way.

Perhaps it’s just the only way to deal with entities that you desperately wish to continue to do business in the region while defining how you want to get more money from them?

 

[trusso]

Oh no, people are expected to take responsibility for their own lives. How horrible!

Let me introduce you to the very real problem of systemic injustice.

In America, you can bust your ass and get nothing, or do **** all and be handed the world.

Tell me, where does personal responsibility enter into that equation?

 

[turbineseaplane]

Let me introduce you to the very real problem of systemic injustice.

In America, you can bust your ass and get nothing, or do **** all and be handed the world.

Tell me, where does personal responsibility enter into that equation?

"Personal responsibility" is one of those things that sounds good and feeds into the American narratives of freedom and self determinism.

Unfortunately the realities of modern life in complex societies ends up relegating folks to outcomes that are majority based upon things totally outside their control.

If folks would vote based upon their immediate and/or near time real interests ... it'd be amazing to see how much different things could and would be.

America largely got destroyed by Citizens United (unlimited dark money in politics).
Even my very right leaning friends (really more of "the center" now) agree on that one.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

First, these regulations are not vague. Even an American can understand them.

One thing. The DMA includes language that says that, even if a company action does not go against the letter of the DMA, a regulator can still say it’s an issue if they feel it should be. The iPad became a gatekeeper device via this part of the DMA as it most certainly didn’t meet the quantitative thresholds, but Vestager felt that one day it MIGHT meet those thresholds, so it was designated a gatekeeper device.

Unless Americans have some heretofore undefined power to read EU regulator’s minds, there’s no way they can “understand” what those regulators will “feel” is a problem.

 

[Justin Cymbal]

I guess that is where the culture gap shows. In the EU we do not feel the need to be the best at everything. For me success means a steady job that pays enough to save some money, where I can put the pen down at 5 pm (1 pm on Friday) and enjoy my 34 vacation days. That is success to me

You’re conflating my personal opinion with the actual facts of the matter being discussed at hand and attempting to discern a nonexistent personal belief about perceived social matters

I’m literally just stating a fact here ⬆️ the US has far more economic clout than all of Europe combined - A well documented and dramatic change from just less than two decades ago (when it was the other way around) when the EU had higher GDP (& economic clout)

This law was specifically written with the intention of targeting successful American companies - the very law mandates a minimum of $75 billion market capitalization threshold for which to adhere to these stringent regulations - thereby excluding the vast majority of companies worldwide

5% fines levied on global (revenue) for a company the scale of Apple would amount to over $20 billion annually - now you tell me, does $20 billion annually sound excessive to you or a reasonable amount? With the primary objective of said fines also being obfuscated behind policy (that I actually personally agree with) I don’t endorse my country’s loose consumer protection enforcement (like you imply that I do) and would much rather accountability be upheld to current on-the-books law. Which, unfortunately IS NOT happening in the US as it should be (and was intended and designed to be)

There is also unified consensus on excessive EU fines indeed being an overreach:

Europe's Arbitrary Fines Harm American Companies and Workers

A recent fine on Uber is the latest example of Europe's unjustifiable use of penalties on American companies.

www.uschamber.com

 

[surferfb]

How?

The easiest one is that all the time and money spent implementing features no one is asking for like “browser choice screen on device setup” and “ability to uninstall the camera app” weren’t spent on features actually making the device better.

Even if a feature is EU-only, the engineering, security, and business changes aren’t. They shape Apple’s global roadmap, which directly affects what ships for US users. More code complexity also means more chances for bugs to be introduced, more security issues.

The law actively discourages Apple from innovating, and that affects everyone.

One way or another, we’ll get them. Twenty-seven countries have to agree, whether they are small or large.

I have no doubt the EU will “get what it wants”, I do doubt that it will result in what they say it will result in, and that third party stores ever become a thing. Because they're not on Android, which has been open since Day 1.

And I suspect the regulations will lead to a security issue years down the line, that like Crowdstrike, wouldn’t have happened if the EU hadn’t gotten involved. And despite the denials, it’ll be the EU’s fault.

 

[ashdelacroix]

I would simply reduce economic efforts relative to the fine. If it means switching down certain EU operations for two months, then do it. The EU must learn that if the fines are exorbitant and the rules eccentric and egregious, then companies will cover the costs of fines by removing economic output in a region. Apple should also switch its European HQ outside the EU.

 

[justanotherdave]

When will Spotify have to abide by the DMA? They’re the largest music streamer in the world and hold a monopoly. They’re also a gatekeeper because if you’re an artist and want to be on Spotify you have to agree to their terms.

Oh wait, nevermind, the EU isn’t interested in policing their own tech companies. They just want to extract rent from US companies.

 

[turbineseaplane]

This law was specifically written with the intention of targeting successful American companies - the very law mandates a minimum of $75 billion market capitalization threshold for which to adhere to these stringent regulations - thereby excluding the vast majority of companies worldwide

Targeting the largest firms surprises you?

The larger the firm and with more clout and market power, the more need to be regulated (almost by definition).

 

[turbineseaplane]

I would simply reduce economic efforts relative to the fine. If it means switching down certain EU operations for two months, then do it. The EU must learn that if the fines are exorbitant and the rules eccentric and egregious, then companies will cover the costs of fines by removing economic output in a region. Apple should also switch its European HQ outside the EU.

Meanwhile, in the US where penalties are much smaller, firms just ignore them, pay them and rack it up as the cost of doing business.

I'll never understand folks who seem to want corporate power to literally be above ALL other global concerns.

Do folks realize what a dystopian, unchecked, outcome they are advocating for?

 

[ProbablyDylan]

Sorry. I forgot I'm supposed to say "best country in the world" before ICE busts through my door and throws me in the clink for not spouting approved propaganda.

Oh man, if only you had an app that would give you a chance to see them coming!

It's crazy to me how Apple openly (and, honestly, embarrassingly) resists laws passed and implemented by a democratic process and body but readily and eagerly bows down for the diet coke despot.

 

[surferfb]

Targeting the largest firms surprises you?

The larger the firm and with more clout and market power, the more need to be regulated (almost by definition).

It also ensures their companies won't be ensnared, because their regulations actively discourage innovation and drive European tech workers and companies to the US. But don't take my word for it, here's ASML's CFO

The European Union’s rules on artificial intelligence are driving tech workers and companies to Silicon Valley, a top executive from the Dutch chipmaking giant ASML has said.

"Why is it so difficult to get AI done in Europe? Simply because we started with regulating, to keep AI under the thumb,” ASML’s Chief Financial Officer Roger Dassen told an event in Eindhoven on Monday evening.

“Someone who has a talent for artificial intelligence, the first thing they do with their hard-earned money ... is buying a ticket to Silicon Valley,” Dassen said.

 

[turbineseaplane]

So vague they would be immediately struck down as unconstitutional in the US (even before our banana republic era).

By whom?

There is nobody actually ruling based upon constitutional rules (or the spirit of them) any longer. Wildly unconstitutional things are happening at the highest level now, constantly.

I do agree with you about the banana republic era part however.