Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Report Examines Labor Violations at Apple Supplier's Malaysian Plant
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Apple does set a high standard, far higher than anyone else. They were the first to require code of conducts from foreign suppliers, the first to actually AUDIT those requirements, and they continue to strengthen and improve them year after year. They have and continue to require redress and will drop suppliers who are not living up to the code of conduct.
File this report under "No good deed goes unpunished".
True, but I think that the people writing these articles aren't just interested in getting clicks, but the most clicks possible. Apple is the big dog right now, so they get the headline even if they are just one of many.
I guarantee you these organizations know what words in a headline will garner the most attention.
Look at some of the responses in this thread. People saying that Apple could fix all this if they just did this or that. Really, Apple is going to fix the entire messy labor situation in Asia, just by changing this or that policy? Someone out there wants this to be the narrative and so it goes. It's all Apple's fault whether it really is or not.
Very good point.
While this isn't exactly Apple's fault that this happened, any inspection they might do of these facilities needs to be more thorough. With that said, it sounds like this operation has been kept quiet from Apple.
Now that it's out in the open, Apple needs to be the industry leader they strive to be and make an example of what happens when you do business with a US-based electronics company and try to cut corners with shoddy labor conditions.
Exactly, this is the byproduct of consumerism/consumption addiction.
"All in favor of 4 iPhone refreshes per year say I"
The great Ponzi scheme that is the United States economy is rearing its ugly head. cheaper, cheaper, cheaper, more, more, more. Personally I can't wait for Soylent Green burgers.
I am amazed that people on Apple forums are so quick to point the finger at Apple. Why not point the finger at the companies who hire these people? Why not point the finger at the Malaysian government? Or why not point the finger at the person that extorted the money without Apple, Flextronics, or the Malaysian government knowing about it?
If you are making millions upon millions of units of stuff, there are going to be thousands upon thousands of people involved. Just how do you propose that Apple fix this?
People are claiming Apple could stop this by bringing these jobs back to America. So, how does that help this man or the other people working in these factories? It puts them back on farms where they make almost nothing. Some help that is.
So, please don't tell me how much you care about Malaysian workers and then say bring the jobs back to the US, because that is straight up BS. Or maybe you are just knee jerk responding without thinking about just how complicated it is to run a company that makes the volume of stuff that Apple makes.
If you are making millions upon millions of units of stuff, there are going to be thousands upon thousands of people involved. Just how do you propose that Apple fix this?
People are claiming Apple could stop this by bringing these jobs back to America. So, how does that help this man or the other people working in these factories? It puts them back on farms where they make almost nothing. Some help that is.
So, please don't tell me how much you care about Malaysian workers and then say bring the jobs back to the US, because that is straight up BS. Or maybe you are just knee jerk responding without thinking about just how complicated it is to run a company that makes the volume of stuff that Apple makes.
THey ARE setting an example for everyone else. While Samsung and others sweep problems under the rug, Apple and Apple alone asked an independent organization to investigate, AND To report the results publicly. Not just to Apple. Publicly. And they did this BEFORE the big media hullaballoo. Not after. Before. AND they follow up to find out whether their fixes are working, and keep improving, AND they tell the public their findings: the rough with the smooth.
That leads to real change. That leads to Apple being the best of the industry, not the worst.
And it's never good enough--and Apple clearly agrees with me on that. Uncovering new abuses is vital. Fixing them is vital too, and Apple has shown real commitment to that, not just lip service.
Apple is a huge source of manufacturing income for these companies, and if they had extremely strict labor rules that involved termination of contracts if those labor rules are violated, you can bet that these factories would get their act in order so quick. But they (Apple) have to really pursue this hard-line, instead of just giving slaps on the wrist.
And for everyone complaining about dust under their home buttons or macbook cases that creak, cheap labor creates cheapened products.
Wait, let me see if I understand how many layers deep this went:
Apple Has COntract with Manufacturer
Manufacturer has contract with Recruiter
Recruiter has contract with potential employee
And the only the wrong or illegal, as pointed out by the article, is that last step? There is an entire entity of separation between the two. Also note that Apple puts in place (in their contract) something that states that the manufacturer, who didn't do anything wrong, has to pay out to the employee. Sure this gets the manufacturer to try and enforce it more, but it's not even their problem directly and nothing they did wrong (directly).
So great on Apple for taking active steps to try and correct this after it's found, but in no way is this Apple's problem to fix or deal with. There is an entire entity of separation between them, not to mention a country and culture as well.
Also, for all those people saying that this little infraction would all be resolved if only Apple made products here. Well kindly ****. A small percentage of employees are getting shafted and you want to fire all the ones that aren't just so you can wash your hands of it?
There is a reason that these people are willing to go into 6 months of debt for these jobs, they are good jobs (at least compared to other things). Heck, I'd be interested to see what the average college loan is compared to the average college grad. I bet it's at or above 6 months, I know mine was. But it was/is worth it to me. Now the difference is that no one is (hopefully) doing anything shady with my loans, and they are predictable. So I'm all for making sure that anyone employed as a minimum term on their employment and that the fees don't change just so that people don't have to literally bet the farm on an offer.
My career is (moderately) predictable. But even if the loan collectors were shady you better not try and cure that problem by getting everyone in my field fired from our jobs!
----------
And why do you think it's "cheap" labor? Sounds like these employees are willing to pay just to get the job, and they all like to keep it. I suppose you think paying a highschool student minimum wage would create a better product? It'd certainly be more expensive, but due to economic and cultural differences I'd place a large amount of money on it being a worse product.
Apple Has COntract with Manufacturer
Manufacturer has contract with Recruiter
Recruiter has contract with potential employee
And the only the wrong or illegal, as pointed out by the article, is that last step? There is an entire entity of separation between the two. Also note that Apple puts in place (in their contract) something that states that the manufacturer, who didn't do anything wrong, has to pay out to the employee. Sure this gets the manufacturer to try and enforce it more, but it's not even their problem directly and nothing they did wrong (directly).
So great on Apple for taking active steps to try and correct this after it's found, but in no way is this Apple's problem to fix or deal with. There is an entire entity of separation between them, not to mention a country and culture as well.
Also, for all those people saying that this little infraction would all be resolved if only Apple made products here. Well kindly ****. A small percentage of employees are getting shafted and you want to fire all the ones that aren't just so you can wash your hands of it?
There is a reason that these people are willing to go into 6 months of debt for these jobs, they are good jobs (at least compared to other things). Heck, I'd be interested to see what the average college loan is compared to the average college grad. I bet it's at or above 6 months, I know mine was. But it was/is worth it to me. Now the difference is that no one is (hopefully) doing anything shady with my loans, and they are predictable. So I'm all for making sure that anyone employed as a minimum term on their employment and that the fees don't change just so that people don't have to literally bet the farm on an offer.
My career is (moderately) predictable. But even if the loan collectors were shady you better not try and cure that problem by getting everyone in my field fired from our jobs!
----------
And why do you think it's "cheap" labor? Sounds like these employees are willing to pay just to get the job, and they all like to keep it. I suppose you think paying a highschool student minimum wage would create a better product? It'd certainly be more expensive, but due to economic and cultural differences I'd place a large amount of money on it being a worse product.
It may not be in style but I wear the label proudly because the average American is so brainwashed they have no idea what a Socialist really is.
The thing is, you can't go all one way or the other. Yes you have to allow room for companies to grow. You also need a strong government with guarantees of health and education and, benefits, and infrastructure and the taxes to pay for them. For the last 40 years it's been all cut taxes, cut taxes cut taxes. Guess what: education, infrastructure, and protections for the common citizen are collapsing and countries that have followed the model are bankrupt. We look at the third world, like Malaysia, and Bangladesh, and get all high and mighty when here in North America conditions for some workers are no better. We used to have rules against loan sharking, essentially what is happening to the workers who end up in debt to the broker. Now we call the 'payday loans" and they operate in the open.
Communism is now known to be a stupid idea. In another 50 years pure unadulterated Libertarian Capitalism will be the same. The people of the 22nd century will laugh at us for having the stupid idea that they could prosper without a strong government to make sure everyone behaved themselves. But until then watch Malaysia, and Bangladesh, and China. That's what's coming to a factory near you soon.
47 million people are on food stamps in this country and you think I give a crap about some Malaysian worker?
This is strictly criminal activity of the broker. Essentially a con job on an uninformed worker.
Apple isn't really involved. Just as they would not be legally involved if you were dumb enough to purchase an iPhone from a witch or troll who asked for your firstborn child in return as their broker fee, and you agreed.
It's up to Nepal to throw the criminal con men in their own country in jail. It would be illegal International imperialism for Apple security to go into Nepal and take over for their police department.
Such a sad story. I really hope someone at Apple can make this mans fortune right again. I realise, money is relative but for the price of a too of the line iPad, this man has lost his livelihood.
We all should be respectful and care for others.
We all should be respectful and care for others.
Totally true. Why don't these articles ever call out other companies that are using the same contract facilities, many of them operating without the type of oversight that Apple is using?
As though socialism hasn't been the "Soup du Jour" in this country for nearly a century. Let me guess you still think voting Red or Blue is different right?
Yes, but that is my point. These stories are all "Apple labor violations!!!" rather than "Electronics industry giants keep silent on its contractors's worker abuse record." So the stories end up being more about Apple, not labor conditions. But why do they report the story in lock-step like this or these reporters are just that dumb and naive. Is reporting more about clicks than truth now? (Maybe that's a rhetorical question).
Im sorry, i think you have a very poor understanding of how public corporations work and economics in general. Its fine that you dont care about investors, but guess who does, TIM COOK. its his job to care about investors and the maximization of shareholder value because they own the company and thats what they care about. If Tim Cook is not maximizing shareholder value, the shareholders, through the board, would eventually replace him. Thats how its works. Thats why Carl Icahn can do what hes doing and have Tim actually give him the time of day. Because he can buy shares, and a lot of them.
As to the distribution of profits: the share price of Apple, and any other public company, is directly tied to investors' expectations of future profits. Guess who the top investors of Apple are? Blackrock, Vanguard, State Street, and Fidelity. Guess what all these firms do? they run mutual funds. Guess who invests in these mutual funds, average joes like you and me, through their 401Ks and personal portfolios. So guess what, Apple's profits ARE widely distributed. And these investors at some point would take their dividends or profits from selling their shares and spending it on something else, thus creating jobs and generally making the world go round.
As to the economy, do you know why the US economy was so good in the 50s? Because it was an industrial/manufacturing economy and that industry needed workers, of which the US had plenty of supply. I guarantee you corporations would have utilized cheaper labor in Asia at that time if they could but why couldn't they? COST. The global transport and technology infrastructure we take for granted today didn't exist back then, nor did the local infrastructure, which would have made the cost of setting up manufacturing there way too expensive. Im not even taking into account the political hurdles that would have existed at the time.
You want a better middle class? you did hit on one key concept: willing to work. Unfortunately in today's American society, we don't have enough people who are willing to work. Everyone watches MTV Cribs and they think
they're entitled to the exact same things but most people aren't willing to work for it. And many that are willing to work simply don't have the right skills in today's economy, which is changing at a faster pace than ever. You want a better middle class? tell the government to invest in education, tell them to stop bickering and actually get something done. For those willing to work hard, there is no better place in the WORLD than the US to succeed. And Im not saying that because Im American because Im not, its simply true.
As the original topic of this story, the situation is unfortunate, Im glad that Apple is a corporation doing more than most, if not all, to address it.
I'll also get off my soap box now.
You need to get out your first world country and check out the real 3rd world were people actually starve to death. No food stamps, section 8, or obamacare in these craphole countries.
Okay, so Apple terminates its contracts with Foxconn. The headline the next day? Apple causes massive unemployment in China! Millions out of work! Famine, pestilence! It's all Apple's fault again.
Don't the foreign governments have any role in setting labor standards in their countries? Why are they given a pass on this? How did Apple become responsible for setting labor standards in China?
I thought Apple was no longer the industry leader. I thought Android buried Apple and Samsung is the new leader of innovation.
No major politician in the US is a socialist. Paul Wellstone was the last one I can think of that might have had some left wing beliefs, and even he was quite conservative on many critical issues. I just laughed when they were trying to call Obama a "socialist" and a "communist". The accusation was utterly ludicrous for someone that in any European country would be a mid range conservative. And no I don't believe the two US parties are different. Red/Blue US Conservative/US Liberal, Republican/Democrat are as meaningful as Ford/Mercury. Underneath they are the same corrupt conservative right wing corporate profit uber allis machine. It's why I packed up and left the US 8 years ago. I'm just watching the rot from afar.
Stop tooting your horn. 100 million people aren't working in this country, Social Security Disability utilization is at an all-time high, 47 million are on food stamps, student loans are at record highs, government debt is skyrocketing, we have unfunded liabilities at a $100 trillion and you want more money for education.
Unfortunately there's more to this paradigm than meets the eye.
But I'd love to get your take on today's economy. What skills do I need to succeed? What do you recommend jqc?
If Apple terminates a contract with Foxconn, or threatens to terminate and gives them a big fine, Foxconn you bet will somehow find a way to give its workers those 10 minute breaks and not go out of business.
My point is Apple is an industry leader, and has great influence financially and socially. It can use that influence and force companies to improve labor practices.