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An 8-core Mac Pro will run Tiger. even if Apple has to release an update to allow the system to recognise 8 cores, they will, although I doubt they will have to. Of course, why you would want to, I don't know. The 8-core Mac Pro will no doubt come out with Leopard installed.

Well, that assumes that the 8-core Mac appears before Leopard.

Apple has made it their policy that a Mac will not run any version of the Mac OS that predates the Mac in question.

By that, I mean that if a computer ships with OS 10.4.8 on it, they have made sure that you cannot install OS 10.4.7 on that machine.

This is done to make sure that you don't install a version of OS X that cannot properly manage your system's power management and other features.

If the machine ships with 10.4.8 on it, and 10.4.8 has been out for a while, then the machine will usually ship with a custom "build" of 10.4.8 that is slightly tweaked for that machine. So, this generally also prevents you from installing a version of 10.4.8 that pre-dates that specific build.

So, if the Mac Pro ships with OS 10.5 on it, then there is about a 99.9% chance that any version of OS X that predates 10.5 will refuse to install. This is the way it's been for a long time.
 
Well, that assumes that the 8-core Mac appears before Leopard.

Apple has made it their policy that a Mac will not run any version of the Mac OS that predates the Mac in question.

By that, I mean that if a computer ships with OS 10.4.8 on it, they have made sure that you cannot install OS 10.4.7 on that machine.

This is done to make sure that you don't install a version of OS X that cannot properly manage your system's power management and other features.

If the machine ships with 10.4.8 on it, and 10.4.8 has been out for a while, then the machine will usually ship with a custom "build" of 10.4.8 that is slightly tweaked for that machine. So, this generally also prevents you from installing a version of 10.4.8 that pre-dates that specific build.

So, if the Mac Pro ships with OS 10.5 on it, then there is about a 99.9% chance that any version of OS X that predates 10.5 will refuse to install. This is the way it's been for a long time.

Oops! It seems I was wrong.

Apologies.
 
Oops! It seems I was wrong.

Apologies.

No problem. It's easy to overlook that one.

You would generally assume that the new machine would run everything that preceded it (just like PC's with Windows). But, Apple does things a little different to insure that you won't accidentally fry something due to the power management system not being operated properly (wouldn't want the system to over-heat because it's system wasn't recognized and properly manipulated).
 
Well, that assumes that the 8-core Mac appears before Leopard.

Apple has made it their policy that a Mac will not run any version of the Mac OS that predates the Mac in question.

By that, I mean that if a computer ships with OS 10.4.8 on it, they have made sure that you cannot install OS 10.4.7 on that machine.

This is done to make sure that you don't install a version of OS X that cannot properly manage your system's power management and other features.

If the machine ships with 10.4.8 on it, and 10.4.8 has been out for a while, then the machine will usually ship with a custom "build" of 10.4.8 that is slightly tweaked for that machine. So, this generally also prevents you from installing a version of 10.4.8 that pre-dates that specific build.

So, if the Mac Pro ships with OS 10.5 on it, then there is about a 99.9% chance that any version of OS X that predates 10.5 will refuse to install. This is the way it's been for a long time.


So I have to keep hoping that the 8 cores are out before leopard as I have a load of 3rd party software and plug-ins which I know will take forever to make the transition. With the latest news that Leopard may ship late March its not looking good! Especially as you point out there would inevitably have to be an 8core specific build of Tiger and you just know the entire programming department at Apple is pushing 10.5 out AQAP, there probably aren't the resources for a special tiger build.

I doubt they will co-incide the release dates so I reckon we may even have to wait until after the Leopard/iLife/iWork announcement....BooHoo.:(
 
So I have to keep hoping that the 8 cores are out before leopard as I have a load of 3rd party software and plug-ins which I know will take forever to make the transition. With the latest news that Leopard may ship late March its not looking good! Especially as you point out there would inevitably have to be an 8core specific build of Tiger and you just know the entire programming department at Apple is pushing 10.5 out AQAP, there probably aren't the resources for a special tiger build.

I doubt they will co-incide the release dates so I reckon we may even have to wait until after the Leopard/iLife/iWork announcement....BooHoo.:(


The machine specific builds are not really substantially different. So, it would not be unreasonable for them to get a small revision made. Generally, the update is no more significant than any downloadable patch that they release. It's just that they add information / drivers / power management code that is relevant to the specific machine. I guess you could look at it as they just add one more machine's needs to the database of machine information already there.

So, it's not a fully custom version. Just a build that is aware of the new machine's needs.

But, yes, as time goes on, it is less and less likely that the 8-core machine will debut before Leopard. But, only time will tell for sure.

Hopefully your software vendors will release updates quickly.
 
Should I return my macbook pro and wait?

I just purchased a new macbook 2.33ghz 2Gram last week end.I love it. However it is my first time in this forum and noticed some of you discussing a possible new macbook on the horizon. I spent $2500 on this notebook. I am curious what your thoughts are. Should I return the unit and wait until the new macbook pro comes out if it is soon? thanks.
 
I just purchased a new macbook 2.33ghz 2Gram last week end.I love it. However it is my first time in this forum and noticed some of you discussing a possible new macbook on the horizon. I spent $2500 on this notebook. I am curious what your thoughts are. Should I return the unit and wait until the new macbook pro comes out if it is soon? thanks.

Well, since you've already opened the box, you would have to give-up $250 (10% restocking fee) on the return.

So, ask yourself whether the anticipated upgrades / updates are worth losing $250 for?

If you are happy with the machine, then it may be worth returning it.

The only way to know for sure whether the new model is worth the wait (and $250 loss) is to wait and see what comes out.

It's entirely possible that the next model may not be substantially better.
 
I like it now.

I actually like the design of the MacPro the way it is. Its clean, shiny, and perfect. If they changed it I think it would be black, carbon fiber or something kingly. But they need to add iSights to the Cinema Displays.
 
i'd like to see a smaller Mac Pro but it'd be hard to fit 1TB of hard drive space with 8 cores (rumored) while keeping everything cool and functioning properly.

i'd also like to see something besides brushed metal. Apple's used it for a while and it might be time to move on.

Exactly. There is no way this story is accurate. First of all, the brushed aluminum will be around for a very long time. Apple released it's Mac Book Pro line in aluminum, and in keeping with the rest of the Pro line, the new Cinema Displays and Mac Pro's will be in the same vein. Moreover, how will four HDD's and a motherboard with possibly two quad cpu chips AND an additional Blu-ray optical drive fit into a smaller Pro tower? Perhaps there will be a non-Pro line released, mini-towers made from the similar material as their Mac Book and iMac line and in the same vein, in the mid teens price range. I could definitely see that possibility.
 
I too like the idea of a smaller tower. It would be something between the iMac and the Mac Pro - some flexibility, but not maxed out. This would be a great addition to the Mac lineup, plus it could allow the MacPro to be pushed further as a workstation

::Mac Tower::
smaller the pro (closer to G4 tower size)
different design/material (not just mini-pro)
Quad-core Core2Duo or Dual core Xeon (less heat and $)
2HDDs
1Optical
3 PCI slots
4 Ram slots
6 USB (2 front, 4 rear)
2 FW 400 (front and rear)
12-in-1 media reader on the front (why not)

::Mac Pro Tower::
slightlly bigger than current pro
5HDDs (boot + 4 drive RAID)
2optical
4 PCI-E, 1 PCI-X
2AGP for SLI
12 Ram slots
5 USB
2 FW 400
2 FW 800
2 eSata
 
I too like the idea of a smaller tower. It would be something between the iMac and the Mac Pro - some flexibility, but not maxed out. This would be a great addition to the Mac lineup, plus it could allow the MacPro to be pushed further as a workstation

::Mac Tower::
smaller the pro (closer to G4 tower size)
different design/material (not just mini-pro)
Quad-core Core2Duo or Dual core Xeon (less heat and $)
2HDDs
1Optical
3 PCI slots
4 Ram slots
6 USB (2 front, 4 rear)
2 FW 400 (front and rear)
12-in-1 media reader on the front (why not)

::Mac Pro Tower::
slightlly bigger than current pro
5HDDs (boot + 4 drive RAID)
2optical
4 PCI-E, 1 PCI-X
2AGP for SLI
12 Ram slots
5 USB
2 FW 400
2 FW 800
2 eSata

Why not include a FW800 in a miniMac Pro? Even the 24" iMac has it. Also, no need for AGP slots in the big Mac Pro. PCI-e is 2x faster.
 
Sorry to say it, but I don't think we'll see a mid-range tower from Apple again. I think the 24" iMac is the answer for people that want (close to) the power of the Mac Pro at a more affordable, iMac-style package. Exactly everything the G4 Cube was designed to be. Yes, I know, I would certainly like something more expandable at a more affordable package, but I think the Mac Pro is designed to meet my needs. I think what would be a successful product would be a less expensive Mac Pro.
 
Well, since you've already opened the box, you would have to give-up $250 (10% restocking fee) on the return.

So, ask yourself whether the anticipated upgrades / updates are worth losing $250 for?

If you are happy with the machine, then it may be worth returning it.

The only way to know for sure whether the new model is worth the wait (and $250 loss) is to wait and see what comes out.

It's entirely possible that the next model may not be substantially better.

Hmmm if he bought this at the Apple store and had the 2 gig added than he should be able to return it as long as its with in the 14 days. Shouldnt he?

Then again it sounds like a custom order system so he wouldnt be able to return it.

I know from personal experience in the past when ever I got a new computer within months there'd be a new model and better and faster than again they'd also be recalling or writing bios updates also.
 
Sorry to say it, but I don't think we'll see a mid-range tower from Apple again. I think the 24" iMac is the answer for people that want (close to) the power of the Mac Pro at a more affordable, iMac-style package. Exactly everything the G4 Cube was designed to be. Yes, I know, I would certainly like something more expandable at a more affordable package, but I think the Mac Pro is designed to meet my needs. I think what would be a successful product would be a less expensive Mac Pro.

Makes no sense, Pro's dont need or want a built in display neither do many consumers. Same reasons apply for both. Ask yourself why ProMac isnt a all in one.
 
Sorry to say it, but I don't think we'll see a mid-range tower from Apple again. I think the 24" iMac is the answer for people that want (close to) the power of the Mac Pro at a more affordable, iMac-style package. Exactly everything the G4 Cube was designed to be. Yes, I know, I would certainly like something more expandable at a more affordable package, but I think the Mac Pro is designed to meet my needs. I think what would be a successful product would be a less expensive Mac Pro.

The sad part is, the 24" iMac is neither cheaper than a Mac Pro nor in anyway an answer for for the prosumer segment. $2100 to have either a Geforce 7600GT or expansion is absolutely insane. Apple has and is going to have more disgruntled users on their hands. If Vista wasn't complete junk, Apple could have lost some users. If Microsoft rights the ship with a service pack, they might still.
 
Makes no sense, Pro's dont need or want a built in display neither do many consumers. Same reasons apply for both. Ask yourself why ProMac isnt a all in one.

Personally, I think the iMac serves a good market. But, I think it's deployment should be more limited.

There are those that want an all-in-one. But, that does not include me.

I would find it ideal for a student, for a bedroom, a dorm room, or even the kitchen.

But, as a primary desktop, it falls short for me. I have two primary issues with the iMac:

1) I can't open the current model to blow the dust out without really getting into an involved process and likely voiding my warranty.

2) I've been through the iMac G5 systems. Two of them. And, they were always in the shop for something. When the screen died (happened once on each system), the entire machine was in the shop. When the computer died, I was without a monitor to use on a borrowed system. So, I was without the good parts while waiting for the bad parts to be repaired every time.

With a separate monitor, I can still use the monitor with a borrowed computer if the computer has to go in the shop.

With a separate monitor, I can just connect a different monitor if the monitor dies and has to be repaired under warranty (or if out of warranty just throw the monitor away without losing my computer).

While I really did like the reduced cable clutter of the iMac, I really disliked losing everything every time a single part failed. And, I actually found that the moment I plugged-in my external FireWire drives (to make-up for not being able to add a second internal drive) that I had cables on the desk (instead of behind it) to provide data and power connections. Then, my printer's USB cable had to connect, then the keyboard and mouse. And then the ethernet, modem, and so on.

By the time I was done, it really wasn't as cable free as it looked at first. The only difference, was that instead of having the cables go to a tower under the desk, I now had the cables on top of the desk all going to once place (the back of my iMac). So, the clutter was more obvious than it would have been under my desk.

Of course, I could go wireless. But, I refuse to use wireless. It's a security risk, it's yet one more thing to have to trouble-shoot every time something fails, it means batteries (which mean on-going expenses), it means stuffing more stuff in closets and running cables into closets to keep the wireless items out of sight. Basically, it's just as many wires, just moved to a closet is all.

In short, bring back the mid-range desktops without a monitor. I miss the old PowerMac line with a wider range of builds. I could get them at $1400 to $1500, and I could also get them with higher-end configurations.
 
The sad part is, the 24" iMac is neither cheaper than a Mac Pro nor in anyway an answer for for the prosumer segment. $2100 to have either a Geforce 7600GT or expansion is absolutely insane. Apple has and is going to have more disgruntled users on their hands. If Vista wasn't complete junk, Apple could have lost some users. If Microsoft rights the ship with a service pack, they might still.


It just occurred to me. The iMac is basically just a larger version of the MacBook Pro.

So, get an iMac if your needs would be met by a MacBook Pro, but you absolutely do not ever want the option of being able to use it away from your desk.

Considering that the product line uses mostly the same parts throughout, you really only have 3 levels of systems:

1) MacBook (or Mini if you want a MacBook without a keyboard, mouse, or monitor for nearly as much money).

2) MacBook Pro (or iMac if you want a bigger MacBook Pro that cannot be used away from the desk).

3) Mac Pro, if you want a system that should be available as a mid-range computer and costs more money than just about anyone has available.

So, you don't fit in one our 3 boxes? Well, then I guess you'll just have to adapt your needs to fit our mold.

Or, you could buy a PC, save yourself one or two thousand dollars, get exactly what you want, and lose the ability to use OS X legally.

Note, I'm not a PC advocate. I do use the Mac. But, I find the limited options and configurations to be frustrating. I'm ready to buy a new model to replace my older Mac that no longer meets my needs. Unfortunately, nothing in Apple's current product line meets my needs any better.
 
The sad part is, the 24" iMac is neither cheaper than a Mac Pro nor in anyway an answer for for the prosumer segment. $2100 to have either a Geforce 7600GT or expansion is absolutely insane. Apple has and is going to have more disgruntled users on their hands. If Vista wasn't complete junk, Apple could have lost some users. If Microsoft rights the ship with a service pack, they might still.

Makes no sense, Pro's dont need or want a built in display neither do many consumers. Same reasons apply for both. Ask yourself why ProMac isnt a all in one.

I think what I mean is that Apple meant for the 24" iMac to fill the prosumer space. The 17" and even 20" iMacs are intended for people that use computers, but aren't doing major things like Photoshop or any other ProAps on it whereas the 24" iMac is supposed to be a bridge between those. However, the three of us seem to have higher needs than the 24" iMac. I know I'd certainly love a Mac with expandable storage (it seems like all I buy now are external hard disks) and more power than my iMac G5. But, I certainly don't need all those PCI slots or the ability to connect to an Xserve RAID. Although I don't really need the ability to upgrade my monitor, it certainly would be nice to have two of them (but I do believe the new iMacs support that.) I would, however, like the number of ports found on the Mac Pro.

So, I'm very torn. I certainly would appreciate the power of the Mac Pro, but some of the features seem overkill. However, the iMac seems a little to simple for my needs. My iMac G5 has suited my needs very well in the two years I've had it, but I've decided that the Mac Pro will suit my needs better than a 24" iMac. It certainly would be nice to have a midrange tower in between the iMac and Mac Pro, but I don't think Apple sees it as an important product, and therefore, won't deliver such a product. The same thing applies to the MacBook family. I would love to have a portable mac that had the power of the MacBook Pro, but in the size of a MacBook, and the BlackBook is somehow meant to replace the 12" PowerBook that fulfilled that need, but the BlackBook just doesn't.
 
I think what I mean is that Apple meant for the 24" iMac to fill the prosumer space. The 17" and even 20" iMacs are intended for people that use computers, but aren't doing major things like Photoshop or any other ProAps on it whereas the 24" iMac is supposed to be a bridge between those. However, the three of us seem to have higher needs than the 24" iMac. I know I'd certainly love a Mac with expandable storage (it seems like all I buy now are external hard disks) and more power than my iMac G5. But, I certainly don't need all those PCI slots or the ability to connect to an Xserve RAID. Although I don't really need the ability to upgrade my monitor, it certainly would be nice to have two of them (but I do believe the new iMacs support that.) I would, however, like the number of ports found on the Mac Pro.

So, I'm very torn. I certainly would appreciate the power of the Mac Pro, but some of the features seem overkill. However, the iMac seems a little to simple for my needs. My iMac G5 has suited my needs very well in the two years I've had it, but I've decided that the Mac Pro will suit my needs better than a 24" iMac. It certainly would be nice to have a midrange tower in between the iMac and Mac Pro, but I don't think Apple sees it as an important product, and therefore, won't deliver such a product. The same thing applies to the MacBook family. I would love to have a portable mac that had the power of the MacBook Pro, but in the size of a MacBook, and the BlackBook is somehow meant to replace the 12" PowerBook that fulfilled that need, but the BlackBook just doesn't.


In a similar boat myself.

The main difference being that I've been through two iMac G5's and had nothing but trouble with them. So, I sold them and have been making-do with my old Mac Mini G4 and a PC since then. So, I'm really wanting an update that will fit me.

The Mac Mini G4 barely does anything close to what I need. But, none of the current Macs meet my needs at all either.

Come on Apple, produce a mid-range tower that has the power of an iMac (or better), and doesn't have a built-in screen.

I need a dedicated graphics processor
The ability to open the computer regularly to blow the dust out.
and no built-in monitor

Sure, a Mac Pro will do that. But, $2500 to $3000 just to be able to blow the dust out is a bit crazy. Come on Apple, that's a standard feature in the PC market where computers start at $300. If I can blow the dust out of a $300 PC, how come I have to buy a $2500 Mac to get the same feature?

Or, is it that you want me to buy a new iMac every time it gets too much dust in it? And, taking it in for service and paying someone else to open it and blow the dust out every month seems like a waste to.
 
I sold my G5 PowerMac dual 2.3 and purchased a 20" iMac w/ C2D 2.3 ghz and the X1600 w/ 256 megs.It has been nothing short of a great computer ever since.I have had no problems whatsoever.

Sorry you had problems.
 
I sold my G5 PowerMac dual 2.3 and purchased a 20" iMac w/ C2D 2.3 ghz and the X1600 w/ 256 megs.It has been nothing short of a great computer ever since.I have had no problems whatsoever.

Sorry you had problems.

Glad to hear that your machine has been great for you.

I am just so afraid to even consider the iMac again after the issues I had with the last two. I purchased them a year apart, and they were different revisions. And, I thought for sure that the issues from the first would be worked-out on the next.

But, unfortunately the second was even worse.

But, I did suffer screen failure on both systems, and that really scares me. The issue being that while in for screen repair, I had no computer at all.

Then, while waiting for the computer to be repaired later, I had no screen to use with a loaner system I borrowed from a friend.

After going several rounds with the iMacs, I finally sold them off after their last repair (got rid of them while they were working and before I even put another hours use on them).

They had AppleCare on them. But, I just wasn't willing to continue to limp them by until the warranty expired. That just didn't seem like a smart idea.

The deal with the screens really bothers me. I know I could just get an external monitor later if the internal one failed out of warranty. But, that just seems ridiculous to have a computer with a dead screen sitting right next to a new screen.

So, I have basically decided that it's not worth the risk of getting a built-in screen again. After going through a dead screen on two different machines, I'm just a bit skittish there.
 
I think the iMac should stop trying to be a prosumer computer and return to its original intent: the ultimate all-in-one digital hub. I don't think the average switcher (or normal mac user that aren't us) who wants that digital hub doesn't really care if they can replace their screen or expandability. I don't think consumers really care about that. I don't know how well it's been selling, but I don't think very many of those average consumers want a 24" screen either. I think it would be a better desktop lineup if Apple bought the 20" iMac specs up to the 24" model (which is basically the FW800 and better BTO options), perhaps boost the price another $100 for those specs, and introduced a midrange tower for use prosumers (emphasis on the pro) that started at about $1800 with the high end at most $2000, or if they just lowered prices on the Mac Pro, because us prosumers do want expandability, and the 24" iMac doesn't offer that, and most of us don't need the power of the Mac Pro.

Here's what I think would be a great midrange tower:
>either a 2.33 GHz C2D or 2.0 GHz Xeon
>1 superdrive (don't think anybody NEEDS two, plus it'd cut down on the size))
>2 hard disk bays for up to 1.5 TB, base model 250 GB
>1 GB RAM standard, but certainly 16 GB is not necessary for the maximum
>NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT (probably just 128 MB, maybe 256)
>2 FW400, 1 FW800, 4 USB, 2 on keyboard
>No PCI express (prosumers don't need 8 30 inch Cinemas)
>Would be nice if they threw in AirPort card, but not necesary
>$1799-$1899 for base model

^^Keep in mind that the Mac Pro would probably be updated by then. However, for some reason, Apple thinks that the 24" iMac and the Mac Pro suits our needs and budget, but I'd prefer that instead.
 
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