Report Profiles Secrecy at Apple's Asian Manufacturing Partners' Facilities

[notjustjay]

Those of you who oppose these working conditions should immediately boycott Apple and buy Dell products instead. Made in Texas, right?

Oh, wait... maybe not.

Well, maybe Sony?

Hmm.

HP?

Nope, still Foxconn.

Well, you could just assemble your own PC, made of parts built here in North America. Like, um... hmmm...

You know what, let's boycott PCs altogether, and just stick to consumer electronics like your Xbox, Wii, or PS3, a basic cell phone, and... wait, what?

So tell me again how this is all Apple's fault?

 

[Friscohoya]

Completely and utterly unnecessary.

 

[hugodrax]

Certain higher level employees have to get Polygraphs every 4 years to keep thier security clearance levels.

They get tested at the Apple Counter Intelligence Group. ACIG also has a division that has non official cover employees in media companies,news agency and other companies to provide intelligence back to Apple.

 

[devilsman60]

No Surprises!

Surely we are not surprised by this report. This is China and this is how most of the high volume goods are produced whether that is Apple or other IT and electronic goods, household goods, clothing, cars etc. We in the western world want things cheap and don't really care too much about how or where they come from. It's wrong, yet how many of us are willing to do anything?
NOT LIKELY!

 

[iPoodOverZune]

If Apple did not revel in secrecy, Macrumors would not exist!

 

[dangcookie]

Sorry guys, but it's our fault, not Apple's

Some of you kiddies need to grow up. Do you really think Apple has a choice as an innovator to be anything but extremely secretive? And to thereby take extreme measures at particular peak times? Some of you guys are living in lala land, being "surprised" and "agast." Ridiculous. I completely respect Apple for their need to keep the doors locked tight at manufacturing facilities around the globe in the weeks leading up to a huge launch. There are slime balls with full time jobs looking for ways to scoop the story, or worse -- steal the technology. And you are very much to blame, you MacRumor followers. It's a rough game, and Apple needs to play it in order to be the true innovator that they are. David

 

[DigMe]

Inside the walled city -- one of several compounds run by Foxconn International, a major supplier for Apple Inc -- employees are provided with most of their daily needs. There are dormitories, canteens, recreation facilities, even banks, post offices and bakeries.

Having lived in China and spent a lot of time there besides that I've found this part to be very common in major industrial complexes and schools there. At many of the schools the students won't leave campus all week and sometimes they won't leave on the weekend because everything they need is right there.

 

[iSee]

Remember this is from Reuters, not some 2 bit tabloid or blog with an agenda to set.

Everyone has an agenda. Don't get me wrong. I don't think Reuters is making anything up or doing something else unethical here. Like any mainstream news organization I'm sure they are just trying to make an appealing and interesting article. But a bunch of questions come to mind: is Apple being singled out here because they are doing something unusual? Or is it that they are simply a high profile example? Are Foxconn's practices unusual? How responsible should Apple be for Foxconn's conduct? It's fine that this article doesn't cover all this stuff -- in fact, I'm sure it's a better article because it doen't -- but I need to figure this stuff out before I can "judge" Apple (or Foxconn).

definition of evil? context?

Complete sentence? Not sure what you're asking. I was using "evil" very loosely. I mean: contrary to generally accepted norms.

 

[ianham]

Some of you kiddies need to grow up. Do you really think Apple has a choice as an innovator to be anything but extremely secretive? And to thereby take extreme measures at particular peak times? Some of you guys are living in lala land, being "surprised" and "agast." Ridiculous. I completely respect Apple for their need to keep the doors locked tight at manufacturing facilities around the globe in the weeks leading up to a huge launch. There are slime balls with full time jobs looking for ways to scoop the story, or worse -- steal the technology. And you are very much to blame, you MacRumor followers. It's a rough game, and Apple needs to play it in order to be the true innovator that they are. David

Actually, you need to realize what the heck is going on here. I won't even mention economic sustainability in terms of Apple, because that's more of business and stability is the biggest oxymoron out there. But if Apple is violating human rights to the degree of Nike back in the 80's and 90's, something needs to be done. I understand capitalism and how scarcity brings in the bucks, but Apple should be pushing forward technology and not their ego.

 

[iSamurai]

Sadly, while everyone blames Apple it is really FoxConn who is running their operations that way. It's very common in India and China.

unfortunately foxconn HAS to run it that way (and other companies as well). you would realise that they'd lose their contract with apple and possibly pay a significant price for breaking it if their employees leaked stuff.

but then again apple's paranoid, and that's generated from the hype of wild fans. but if they're really overdoing the security thing, this could breach basic human rights, e.g. the freedom of movement, information etc. and would really come under scrutiny when watchdogs start investigating. oh dear, this is apple we're talking about.

from another perspective i guess other companies, from computers to the automotive industry, there are really competition secrets & intelligence that benefits the companies if they weren't leaked.

 

[MorphingDragon]

Sounds like a very very crappy life!

" China complete where employees live and work while producing many of Apple's devices.
Inside the walled city -- one of several compounds run by Foxconn International, a major supplier for Apple Inc -- employees are provided with most of their daily needs. There are dormitories, canteens, recreation facilities, even banks, post offices and bakeries.

The rank-and-file within the compound have little reason to venture outside. That reduces the likelihood of leaks, which in turn lessens the risk of incurring the wrath of Apple and its chief executive, Steve Jobs, whose product launches have turned into long-running, tightly controlled media spectacles."

The initial description sounds like University dormitories, which by coincidence also smell like rubbish.

Actually visited to china myself, I can say that if these reports are true, these people are very very lucky.

---

On the prison camps, I'll find the VOM article later but you really REALLY don't want to be in one.

http://www.persecution.com/ - Find it yourself if you want. Doesn't matter that its a Christian organization, this happens to atheist people too.

 

[justinfreid]

Tinker: Up the airy mountain, down the rushy glen, we daren't go a hunting, for fear of little men. You see, nobody ever goes in... and nobody ever comes out.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0067992/quotes?qt0483185

 

[Clown Boy]

Steve Jobs is SUCH a toad

 

[Attonine]

I have to say if people really think that the treatment described in the article is bad, they really have no idea what goes on around the world, and no concept of what bad really is. I work in the Arabian Gulf, the treatment of workers from the third world (Bangladesh, Pakistan, Nepal etc) here is basically slavery, and it is totally transparent. Oh, it maybe interesting for you out there to know that when you work in many of the countries in the Arabian Gulf your passport is taken from you in exchange for an ID card. Your employer keeps the passport and only they can get an exit visa for you, they don't want you to leave the country, you don't and there is nothing your embassy can do, no matter what your nationality is, and believe me this happens. Now, which ones of you are going to stop buying oil and petrochemical based products?

The treatment described in the article sounds reasonable to be. I don't know much about Foxconn, but I would suggest it's probably a pretty decent job for many who work there. I imagine Apple is one of the more conscientious companies with regard to contracting manufacturing outfits and probably keeps a tight grip on Foxconn. Compound life is pretty common in many industries, the Oil industry has done this for years. Libya, Equatorial Guinea, , Angola, Algeria, Arabian Gulf all have secure compounds. Life is good, you can eat T Bone steak 5 times a day if you like. If you don't like it, don't take the contract, or don't renew it if offered. Simple.

 

[captain kaos]

Well, as long as fanboys wet themselves about the next snipet of apple news and the next toy apple releases, then this will be how it goes on. Nothing can stop the might of mr jobs. (sarcasm)

I for one will have a few apple products of use, but the days of signing up to every new toy they release is over i think. These stories smack of big brother corporations and where it leads is not a nice place. Consumerism for consuming sake is what fuels it.

 

[Earendil]

Sounds a little over dramatized to me. This is not much different than even places here in the US where product security is an issue.

Indeed. There are departments at Intel where if you walk away from your desk without locking your computer, you are fired on the spot.

Security is a big deal to any company (Apple) that has secrets they don't want their competitors to know. As such, any contracted company (FoxConn) needs to keep those secrets or they are likely to lose major contracts for running a loose ship. Every company does what they deem necessary to keep business secrets within the context of their society, being it a fine, losing a job, legal action, ect. I work for a technology company with government contracts, and I know full well what will happen to me if let trade secrets out. Not only do I know, I won't be upset or think it unfair if I get caught, because I know full well what is expected of me.

Similarly those people know the conditions and the expectations of them when they work there.

 

[clydefamous]

Sure apple is going kind of crazy with all that security but corporate espionage does exist. Without security, what do you have?

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

BTW in CA there are people at IN n OUT burgers making more than Mac Geniuses. Flip Burgers and make more money.

 

[muskratboy]

"But this is Foxconn and they have a special status here."

i must have missed that day in government class... what part of communism provides special privileges for companies that make a lot of money for people?

oh right... ALL OF IT.

the only thing i hate more than communists... are hypocritical communists. which is all of them.

 

[ChrisA]

I'm usually down for Apple loving, but this is just scary. They've created a real Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, except less wondrous. It's disgusting. Talk about slave labor, Apple even owns the stables.

You see the same thing in Japan and other places. Employees actually like it.

If you have ajob in central Tokyo there are two options about were to live (1) in company provided housing, typically rows of two or three story aptmentbuildings or (2) A two hour train ride away. The factory worker can not aford to live close to the factory except in company housing. Those who choose to commute are given a rail pass. Butmany of them value their time and don't want to waste it on a commutter train

Some of this is the same in China. The housing is there because the company needs to atract workers and simply can't if they don't offer perks like zero-commute housing.

The culture there is that the employee expects to be taken care of, provided. This goes way back to the days of the feudal system where the landlord make the rules but alto provided food and housing and a job

 

[R.Perez]

You see the same thing in Japan and other places. Employees actually like it.

If you have ajob in central Tokyo there are two options about were to live (1) in company provided housing, typically rows of two or three story aptmentbuildings or (2) A two hour train ride away. The factory worker can not aford to live close to the factory except in company housing. Those who choose to commute are given a rail pass. Butmany of them value their time and don't want to waste it on a commutter train

Some of this is the same in China. The housing is there because the company needs to atract workers and simply can't if they don't offer perks like zero-commute housing.

The culture there is that the employee expects to be taken care of, provided. This goes way back to the days of the feudal system where the landlord make the rules but alto provided food and housing and a job

This is not the same as in Japan.

These compounds have sweatshop like conditions.

Also this feudal landlord system you speak of sounds awfully similar to slaves living on cotton plantations in the South.

I am sure there were some slaves that liked their owners too.

Doesn't make it ethical or right.

 

[Earendil]

It's interesting that some of you have justified this through 'everyone else does it...'.

THere are only two approaches to showing it is wrong:
1. Show that it is inherently immoral or evil
2. Show that, when compared to similar situations, they have it worse.

Nothing in the Macrumors report can be called evil, and since the practice is basically mirrored across the globe, AND the participants are willing, I hardly see the crime.

Just because one sits on the other side of the word, with limited cultural/social/technical understanding, and casts judgement down on another persons life style, does not make that life style wrong. Unless you can show it is comparatively worse, or inherently evil, I hardly see the problem.

So I'll turn your statement around: I find it interesting that you aren't showing us how it isn't justified.

 

[applesupergeek]

This is overdramatized. I challenge the guy who came up with that suicide story to google how many suicides france telecom had in the past couple of years, 47 is it?

Apple have every right to be tough in terms of protecting their r&d rights and their copyrights. In this business secrecy and industrial secrets are of prime importance as in most businesses. What they require is that employes and subcontractors keep their NDAs, and they have every right to check that they do.

Nothing more, nothing less, move on.

And we are talking here about tough asian cultures, let's not forget the japs had the highest death rate in WWII in their prisoners camps of 38% (germany had 1% purportedly), they had the biggest mass enslavement of women in prostitution, something around 500,0000, all of which were brutalized beyond belief, and of course they are well known in their experiments on vivisections (please don't google this last one unless you are prepared to be shocked as you probably haven't before). All these are of course, to put it mildly, atrocious aberrations, I am mentioning them just to put a little perceptive on the inherent severity (verging on sadism) of these cultures, and how the culprit here in the conditions of these factories isn't really apple but the very asian work culture. Google harakiri too for some more insight.

And please, a forewarning, I don't want to get any racist heat from anyone here, I am merely stating how things are, all these are a matter of public record.

 

[SiPat]

Compounds in Chinese factories aren't Apple's doing -- they've been around for years. Industrial espionage is big business, and the Chinese encourage it more than most.

Do people think that Chinese factories don't compete? There is no friendly rivalry there, it's all cut-throat stuff -- if one factory can replicate an imminent product, that factory can garner the home market before any of their competitors.

Here in Europe, there were news reports a few years ago about European manufacturers being more concerned about the alleged US Govt project known as Echelon, and suspected that the system was being used for industrial espionage purposes to give US companies an advantage over European competitors.

The US is no stranger to industrial espionage -- after all, it takes a thief to know a thief.

 

[cerote]

Wait; food, bank, dorms, recreation facilities, a job, and more. Where do I apply? There are many companies that have the same "campus" buildings in the US. Google has full facilities to help employees stay within the "walls" but you are still allowed to leave, just like foxxcon would. Maybe minus the beefy security. But try to walk out of a big company with a prototype and see what happens as you are leaving. Of course police would be on the side of Foxxconn because of the amount of contracts they have. If Foxxcon would happen to close up shop that would severely hurt the whole surrounding area, not just the employees. You also gotta think about the people that run the business within the walls and outside of it.