Report Profiles Secrecy at Apple's Asian Manufacturing Partners' Facilities

[scottness]

Foxconn isn't forcing them to work there, poverty is.
I'll leave it at that - I don't want to start a flame war.

Right. No one is forcing them to work there. If the poverty conditions outside of Foxconn are worse than inside Foxconn, then it's an improvement to work for Foxconn. They make the choice. It's not slavery.

 

[Berio]

Just honest.

your "honesty" displays a wonderful sense of compassion, warmth and empathy.

situations and societies change, let's hope you never have to rely on other people standing up for your rights.

 

[Skoal]

Of course if it were Steve Goebbels giving us a guided tour through Foxconn it would all be "amazing" and "the most wonderful factory work experience ever"!

 

[Berio]

It used to be important in the 50's and 60's that a company worked with the employees and the contractors to provide a safe and fair work environment. You can do a quick search of most major companies and find out that this only became an issue in large part because of out-sourcing. Was it always perfect? Far from it! Was it ever better that it is now? You bet it was...

D

thanks for your reply.

what about my other question: if in your opinion it is not cheaper to produce in china, why does apple produce in china? sorry if i misunderstood you take on this issue.

 

[NiuFengLe]

Ah the joys of CAPITALISM, the word that built the YOU ESS of AYE.

You want it cheaper,
You want your stock to be worth more.

Capitalist answer = outsourcing.

You now see unemployment almost reaching 10%

Detroit is a ghost city.

Minimum wage is what it is... Minimum.

And now we're looking at China, and blaming them for what we've done?

These factories exist everywhere there. Your shoes, your shirts, your underwear. Your watches, your TVs, your telephones, your computers. Your wallets, your jewellery, your fridges your glasses... Basically look at the desk your monitor is sitting on top of and pick out something that IS NOT Chinese made. It will be a short list indeed.

Apple COULD build all of its products in the USA if it wanted to, and STILL make a very very good profit. But it's not in the CAPITALIST spirit, now is it? The shareholders would not want to lose those few cents per share in value right?

We blame Jobs, but he's still dictated by his real bosses: the shareholders. Power to the people? = power taken away from other people, but in another country.

I truly wonder how this capitalist experiment the Chinese are running will end up?

Great post... Most people that want to complain about the fact that they do not have a job want to blame everyone else but themselves. The true root of the problem relates back to two things:

The common person's insatiable desire to have more crap at a cheaper price. You all have essentially priced yourselves out of jobs.

Stockholder's desires for higher returns no matter what the cost to their company. The push to move everything offshore for cheaper labor has resulted in loss of intellectual property and has eroded any value that companies once had because they have essentially given away their knowledge and manufacturing know how. Puppet CEO's who sang the mantra of maufacturing offshore walked away with lots of money and left their shareholders with nothing and a long line of people at the unemployment office. Sadly, the axemen are the only people who have gained any long term benefit from all of this (besides the Chinese goverment that is).

 

[Goona]

This report is garbage. Is Apple the only company Foxcomm makes thing for? So how is this Apple's fault, why can't it can any of the companies that make things for. Oh but putting Apple on there makes the story more interesting.

 

[Berio]

The American consumer is under no moral obligation to provide better working conditions for the Chinese. The only obligation an American consumer has is getting the best deal.

this is interesting. who decides what the obligations of an american consumer are? it's a quite selfish decree, don't you think? maybe that is the point you were making. quite apart from the discussion about foxconn, isn't it a human being's obligation to look out for other human beings?

 

[NiuFengLe]

This report is garbage. Is Apple the only company Foxcomm makes thing for? So how is this Apple's fault, why can't it can any of the companies that make things for. Oh but putting Apple on there makes the story more interesting.

Exactly. There is a LOT of stuff manufactured there for a LOT of companies...

That campus has 300,000 workers living there. I am sure that Apple's products alone warrants the use of 300,000 workers. Oh yeah, and there is more than one Foxconn facility that is this large. There is another one going up in Vietnam that will be the same size.

 

[Azathoth]

Do these highcschools/airports/places of work employ security who will beat you for taking a picture of the school on a public walkway out of interest?

In the UK we have cops for doing that...

 

[NiuFengLe]

this is interesting. who decides what the obligations of an american consumer are? it's a quite selfish decree, don't you think? maybe that is the point you were making. quite apart from the discussion about foxconn, isn't it a human being's obligation to look out for other human beings?

On the bright side of things with all of the work that is dumped into China it is changing things for the better. Change comes slowly and change requires money. Over time things will change even more. Most American consumers have no idea what they are doing to other people and how it goes against their "beliefs" because they cannot witness it firsthand.

The sad reality is that we all will eventually be reduced to middle ground. The "american" standard of living will erode over time and the "chinese" standard of living will be elevated.

 

[Berio]

On the bright side of things with all of the work that is dumped into China it is changing things for the better. [/QUOTE

yes, i agree. i was merely questioning the definition of "the consumer's obligations"

The sad reality is that we all will eventually be reduced to middle ground. The "american" standard of living will erode over time and the "chinese" standard of living will be elevated.

somehow i fail to find this 'sad'. leveling of living standards is a pretty positive thing in my book.

 

[Berio]

In the UK we have cops for doing that...

 

[thecartoonguy]

What's wrong with this picture? It is our collective willingness to turn a blind eye to what arguably border on human rights abuses just so Steve can get on stage and, with a twinkle in his eye, announce the "one more thing" that we all knew about anyway.

Uh it's CHINA! This is a common pratice. Apple or not this would still happen. This is what happens when you have a billion in population and few jobs slots. It is very similar to the coal mining towns in early U.S, the town basically owned the worker. You get your food and shelter from the company.

 

[NiuFengLe]

On the bright side of things with all of the work that is dumped into China it is changing things for the better. [/QUOTE

yes, i agree. i was merely questioning the definition of "the consumer's obligations"



somehow i fail to find this 'sad'. leveling of living standards is a pretty positive thing in my book.

Poor wording perhaps... It is a good thing but at the same time I do not think that people in the US are coping very well. I almost think that most people still do not see the reality of things. The writing has been on the wall for many years and still most people do not seem to get it.

 

[Berio]

Poor wording perhaps... It is a good thing but at the same time I do not think that people in the US are coping very well. I almost think that most people still do not see the reality of things. The writing has been on the wall for many years and still most people do not seem to get it.

ah so, i see what you mean.

probably humans are better at dealing with immediate danger, short term situations, not so good at dealing with stuff that has been written on the wall for many years .

best
B

 

[thinkpatience]

As a web designer, I really don't like flash and honestly I don't believe that 85% of top websites use it. Why should I hassle my audience to download plugins to view my website. It's simple, if you want the mass population of web users to view your website's content, and return. Don't use flash. Flash is for novelty purpose.

- Flash Intros are annoying.
- I don't have the patience for flash loading screens, and I'm sure im not the only one.
- @Fontface along with other alternatives fixes SiFR.

HTML5 is on the way, but it isn't here yet. I am happy that Apple fully supports it, and has strong opossitions against flash. Flash needs to go away.

 

[Berio]

As a web designer, I really don't like flash and honestly I don't believe that 85% of top websites use it.

i didn't realize that flash was also involved in foxconn's alleged treatment of workers at their chinese manufacturing plants... the plot thickens

 

[bijanorama]

Apple products, designed in the US, should be manufactured in the US. They have enough money, why not bring manufacturing in-house?

 

[Earendil]

Foxconn isn't forcing them to work there, poverty is.
I'll leave it at that - I don't want to start a flame war.

Um, kind of like the current US job market is forcing me to work my current job, otherwise I'll be on the streets? That's it, I'm filing a lawsuit against my employer for forcing me to work in conditions I don't like. Who wants to work a 50 hour week? Or live by NDAs? Cruel world this is.

 

[Earendil]

Apple products, designed in the US, should be manufactured in the US. They have enough money, why not bring manufacturing in-house?

Because the products would become MORE expensive, and you world be putting the Chinese workers out of a job.

While "out sourcing" jobs is seen as evil by some, I like to think of the world as all one people. As long as the quality is the same, and the result is not an increase in human suffering, I say let them work. I don't care what continent they are on, what language they speak, or what culture they adhere to, it matters little.

My employer certainly doesn't provide me with housing, or any of those nice things they listed.

 

[NiuFengLe]

Apple products, designed in the US, should be manufactured in the US. They have enough money, why not bring manufacturing in-house?

Umm... Considering a Chinese worker makes about 2000 RMB a month (roughly 300USD) and an American worker makes about 3000USD a month it all comes down to profits(could be off a bit on the US figure).

 

[satcomer]

Apple products, designed in the US, should be manufactured in the US. They have enough money, why not bring manufacturing in-house?

I agree with you because way to many "outsourcing" companies in North America have weakened it to far.

 

[rockosmodurnlif]

And all this in the People's Republic of China. God bless them and their state managed economy. Now where's my updated and cheaper MacBook Pro?

 

[azazel-]

The saying goes "the fish smells from the head." Foxconn behaves the way it does because it wants contracts. Who is creating the contracts? Essentially Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs is the head of the fish.

If Jobs did not demand such insane secrecy, what motive would Foxconn have for treating it's employees that way? None. Every other tech company announces plans so that people know what it's doing. There are no keynote build ups. People know what to expect, and users generally like that. Sure, it doesn't feed CEO ego's but it's a better way to do business. It treats users with respect.

Apple and Jobs have completely lost it. I will still provide software for the iPhone, because it's a nice platform, but in terms of being a "dedicated" Apple user and recommending their products, I am totally done. Hardware quality has taken a nose dive, customer support is non-existent and frankly Windows 7 is far snappier (sorry Steve!) and capable. W7 screams. SL by contrast, is aptly called "Slow Leopard."

You wrap this up with the overpriced, behind-the-times-at-launch hardware, the stone walling on just about everything, Jobs refusal to use standards in both hardware and software, the actual poor quality and lacking features of the software, and what are you left with?

A company that facilitates indentured servitude apparently.

Sorry Apple, it's been nice.

Good luck buying a PC then. Foxconn supplies motherboards for quite a few OEM companies...Dell being one right off the top of my head.

 

[bruinsrme]

Apple products, designed in the US, should be manufactured in the US. They have enough money, why not bring manufacturing in-house?

The company I am working for is moving to China.
Why? Very little regulation, no need for a large legal department, no need for benefits, employees are a dime a dozen for assembly jobs, hiring 3800 chinese to do what 800 stated side employees do is 20+x cheaper