Reports of Psystar's Demise Appear Premature

[DudeDad]

Care to share?

Your links in your signature suggest you may be a lawyer, so you can research him....love the blub here and some of the comments from those who claim to know him:

http://abovethelaw.com/2009/05/kiwi_camara_jammie_thomas.php

(I'm not suggesting that abovethelaw.com is a reliable source for research, but you get a nice flavor of this character)

 

[cmaier]

Your links in your signature suggest you may be a lawyer, so you can research him....love the blub here and some of the comments from those who claim to know him:

http://abovethelaw.com/2009/05/kiwi_camara_jammie_thomas.php

(I'm not suggesting that abovethelaw.com is a reliable source for research, but you get a nice flavor of this character)

Thanks for the link!

 

[*LTD*]

Not going to. Deal with it. There's not enough of us to matter? Oh, OK. We'll see.

What, are all 30 of you going to storm Apple HQ in Cupertino or something?

If no one wants it, then Psystar should go out of business all on it's own, right? Why bother?

Psystar is offcially out of the fake Mac business. They sold less than 800 units. At some point, it was just a game to them and their attorneys, and near the end, the point was not to sell units (since no one was buying anyway) but to challenge Apple's EULA and business model in order to make headlines.

Apple reintroduced a matte option (limited to certain models) because a) glossy displays could interfere with colour matching and b) they presented usability issues and potential health risks to general users.

 

[KnightWRX]

Not going to. Deal with it. There's not enough of us to matter? Oh, OK. We'll see.

Actually, we saw. Declining sales of desktop models in favor of notebooks in the consumer market, popularity of the All-in-ones and SFF vs standard desktops is basically what drove the PowerMac of yesterday (the 1599$, mid-range model at the time) into a ECC memory using, workstation grade processor and hardware system for semi-pros and pros.

Apple was in the mid-range market before. They were there since way before PCs costs less than 1000$. They were competitive back when competitive was a 450 mhz system with 256 MB ram for under 2000$.

They left that market behind, the very market you want them back in.

If no one wants it, then Psystar should go out of business all on it's own, right? Why bother?

Because leaving them alone would be an endorsement of their business model. Something Apple doesn't want after *gasp* *shock* having "been there, done that" before. Power computing, UMAX were authorised to make clones and in Steve's absence almost killed Apple.

 

[leekohler]

What, are all 30 of you going to storm Apple HQ in Cupertino or something?

Wow- that was mature.

BTW- I'm not going to shut up about this. Deal with it. I've been a Mac user for almost three decades. I'll say what I want, and I will continue to ask for what I want. You don't have to like that.

Power computing, UMAX were authorised to make clones and in Steve's absence almost killed Apple.

I thought there weren't enough of us to matter.

 

[*LTD*]

Wow- that was mature.

It's reality.

BTW- I'm not going to shut up about this. Deal with it. I've been a Mac user for almost three decades. I'll say what I want, and I will continue to ask for what I want. You don't have to like that.

Ok, you're more than welcome to continue your crusade. No one here is saying you don't have a right to be tiresome.

\

I thought there weren't enough of us to matter.

There aren't. The Apple of 1995 is not the same as the Apple of 2009. Nor is the market. Same goes for MS. Same goes for Dell, etc.

 

[leekohler]

It's reality.

Proof that there are only 30 people who want mid range towers or GTFO. If Psystar sold 800 machines, that refutes your claim right there.

And yeah, I have a right to my opinion and right to speak it. You don't have to like it.

 

[KnightWRX]

I thought there weren't enough of us to matter.

Wow, are you dense on purpose ? In those days, Apple offered exactly what you wanted. You have been an Apple user for 30 years like you say right ? So you know that Steve's absence and UMAX and Power Computing clones were things of the 90s. In fact, before 1998, when Steve returned as temporary CEO and killed their licensing.

So in the 90s, clone makers almost killed Apple. This was a period in which desktop systems were very much in demand, above and beyond laptops which were seen as mostly a business tool. Apple made a desktop in those days that very much classifies as a mid-range tower you want.

Flash forward to the mid 00s, and the PowerMac morphed from a 1599$ system that was competitive because the cheap bargain basement low end systems weren't on the market yet to a professionnal grade workstation as Apple saw a decline in sales in their desktop systems in favor of AiO like the iMac and SFF PCs (to which they responded with the Mini) and to notebooks in general which were now seen as trendy and handy tools for the average consumer.

Now, back to 2008, were Psystar again tries to revive the Mac clone market. There's no xMac anymore, no mid-range tower from Apple. A very marginal group sees this as a response to Apple not making a xMac, while Apple sees it as somebody trying to unlawfully revive the clone market that almost killed them. They go after Psystar and we learn that mid-range tower Macs were in fact marginal at best with sales figure under 1000 systems in a year.

 

[*LTD*]

Proof that there are only 30 people who want mid range towers or GTFO. If Psystar sold 800 machines, that refutes your claim right there.

And yeah, I have a right to my opinion and right to speak it. You don't have to like it.

LOL, did you honestly think "30" was meant as a serious number? It was meant to illustrate a very real point.

Um . . . yeah, there are exactly 30 of you!

And 800 (768, actually) machines is peanuts, especially in a year and 7 months. No wonder they couldn't keep themselves solvent.

 

[leekohler]

Wow, are you dense on purpose ? In those days, Apple offered exactly what you wanted. You have been an Apple user for 30 years like you say right ? So you know that Steve's absence and UMAX and Power Computing clones were things of the 90s. In fact, before 1998, when Steve returned as temporary CEO and killed their licensing.

Apple did no such thing. Other companies offered what I wanted. Apple did not. However, after said debacle, which I agree was a mistake, Macs did become more affordable.

 

[KnightWRX]

Apple did no such thing. Other companies offered what I wanted. Apple did not.

And which Apple system didn't meet your standards in the times of UMAX and Power Computing ?

Was there something wrong in the pricing of the many LC and Performa options ? Compared to PCs at the time, the price didn't seem so far fetch.

 

[dukebound85]

LOL, did you honestly think "30" was meant as a serious number? It was meant to illustrate a very real point.

Um . . . yeah, there are exactly 30 of you!

And 800 (768, actually) machines is peanuts, especially in a year and 7 months. No wonder they couldn't keep themselves solvent without outside help.

How much you want to bet that if apple released a mid range desktop that it
1) would be the best selling apple desktop (if it were specced and priced right)
2) forum members here would be praising apple

the fact is that there are many who think that whatever move apple makes is golden so if they dont have a product, it must be a bad idea but once they make it, it is without question a great move


The very evidence of the hackintosh scene in itself is proof that there is a hole in the lineup

 

[leekohler]

And which Apple system didn't meet your standards in the times of UMAX and Power Computing ?

Was there something wrong in the pricing of the many LC and Performa options ? Compared to PCs at the time, the price didn't seem so far fetch.

I bought a Umax back then. It was inexpensive and ran Mac OS. It was still not cheap by PC standards, but it was better than paying for what was available at Apple the time. After the clone debacle, which was definitely a bad idea, I owned a G4 tower and an iBook. Now I own a black MacBook and the last G5 tower. All I consider to be good purchases and worth the money. I simply cannot and will not spend $3,000 on a tower.

How much you want to bet that if apple released a mid range desktop that it
1) would be the best selling apple desktop (if it were specced and priced right)
2) forum members here would be praising apple

the fact is that there are many who think that whatever move apple makes is golden so if they dont have a product, it must be a bad idea but once they make it, it is without question a great move


The very evidence of the hackintosh scene in itself is proof that there is a hole in the lineup

Exactly.

 

[KnightWRX]

I bought a Umax back then. It was inexpensive and ran Mac OS. It was still not cheap by PC standards, but it was better than paying for what was available at Apple the time. After the clone debacle, which was definitely a bad idea, I owned a G4 tower and an iBook. Now I own a black MacBook and the last G5 tower.

Looking back at apple-history.com and EveryMac, pricing on the LC and Performa series was available in the mid 1k range, pretty much the standard pricing on PCs of the day.

UMAX might have been cheaper, but we're far from the Dell Inspiron for 300$ vs Mac Pro for 2500$ comparisons we get today by Apple haters.

Makes me think you're not quite being honest.

How much you want to bet that if apple released a mid range desktop that it
1) would be the best selling apple desktop (if it were specced and priced right)

So you're saying Apple could pull off a New Coke ? I very doubt it. Coke did it in the 80s and it was pretty much a shot in the dark that had 1 chance in a million of working. The fact that Coke executives to this day still say they weren't savvy enough to even have thought about it and the whole thing was just a big stroke of luck tells us a lot about these kind of scenarios.

The best that would happen would be some initial pre-launch and launch hype. Big order numbers for a few weeks/months, and then it would go back to the way it was when Apple finally stopped selling the PowerMac for under 2k$.

 

[leekohler]

Looking back at apple-history.com and EveryMac, pricing on the LC and Performa series was available in the mid 1k range, pretty much the standard pricing on PCs of the day.

UMAX might have been cheaper, but we're far from the Dell Inspiron for 300$ vs Mac Pro for 2500$ comparisons we get today by Apple haters.

Makes me think you're not quite being honest.

What am I not being honest about?

And a Umax was $999.

 

[*LTD*]

The very evidence of the hackintosh scene in itself is proof that there is a hole in the lineup

So?

Of course there's a hole in the lineup. Where you and others like you err, however, is that you consider this a major problem.

 

[cmaier]

So?

Of course there's a hole in the lineup. Where you and others like you err, however, is that you consider this a major problem.

There is a hole, but the hackintosh scene isn't evidence of it. People would hackintosh in any event.

 

[dukebound85]

So you're saying Apple could pull off a New Coke ? I very doubt it. Coke did it in the 80s and it was pretty much a shot in the dark that had 1 chance in a million of working. The fact that Coke executives to this day still say they weren't savvy enough to even have thought about it and the whole thing was just a big stroke of luck tells us a lot about these kind of scenarios.

The best that would happen would be some initial pre-launch and launch hype. Big order numbers for a few weeks/months, and then it would go back to the way it was when Apple finally stopped selling the PowerMac for under 2k$.

Annnnd I still stand by my statement. When it happens, and it will, Apple fans will applaud it

To think there isn't a market for an affordable desktop that isn't crippled or 2k+ in price is silly

Markets are never static

So?

Of course there's a hole in the lineup. Where you and others like you err, however, is that you consider this a major problem.

I am speculating just like you are speculating.

We don't work for apple and yes, they are doing well but to think that they cant do better is being ignorant.

Here is a question, what are your thoughts on this rumored tablet? Why should apple go into a weak market when they are already doing well?

There is a hole, but the hackintosh scene isn't evidence of it. People would hackintosh in any event.

I don't see how you can come to that conclusion. If anything its a combination of a hole and people that do so for the sake of hacking

 

[leekohler]

Annnnd I still stand by my statement. When it happens, and it will, Apple fans will applaud it

To think there isn't a market for an affordable desktop that isn't crippled or 2k+ in price is silly

Markets are never static

I'm not saying we have to go back to $1499 either. $2,000 is fine. But where they are now just seems like shutting too many people out.

 

[KnightWRX]

Annnnd I still stand by my statement. When it happens, and it will, Apple fans will applaud it

To think there isn't a market for an affordable desktop that isn't crippled or 2k+ in price is silly

Markets are never static

There isn't a market for mid-range desktops. There's a market for the bottom of the barrel low end desktops, but in there, comeptition is fierce and margins are razor thin. Apple said and continues to show it won't ever enter such a market.

The fact is, there isn't a mid-range tower market anymore. The few boxes that do sell in the 1k-2k$ price range is gamer systems. It's a small niche, it isn't that profitable as gamers usually want higher end components that have high costs attached to them and require that games be available. While Mac games do exist, they do not even measure to the kind of availability that there is on Windows.

This is what drove Apple out of the segment in the first place. Now you think they can go back and be successful where they weren't in the last few months/years they were in it ?

Wishful thinking.

Here is a question, what are your thoughts on this rumored tablet? Why should apple go into a weak market when they are already doing well?

This is where *LTD* and I split up. He sees that Apple will revolutionnize the tablet the market, I see that the tablet market is not a big up and comer. Apple likes up and coming markets or very successfully established markets where they can leave a mark. Mp3 players and cellphones made sense. The tablet, not so much. A dedicated e-reader with iTunes Book Store at a low price to compete with the Nook and Kindle ? Not in the Apple's cords. The Apple TV pretty much proved to them that single function devices are a thing of the past, people like consolidation.

The tablet will fall in the same category a revived PowerMac type computer would, big initial launch hype and orders and then it would fizzle and die with low sales number and few updates until it gets killed.

What am I not being honest about?

And a Umax was $999.

The fact that you are mixing history, partially quoting and then mangling our words to make an argument that is completely out of this world ? That's what you're dishonest about.

 

[DMann]

There isn't a market for mid-range desktops. There's a market for the bottom of the barrel low end desktops, but in there, comeptition is fierce and margins are razor thin. Apple said and continues to show it won't ever enter such a market.

The fact is, there isn't a mid-range tower market anymore. The few boxes that do sell in the 1k-2k$ price range is gamer systems. It's a small niche, it isn't that profitable as gamers usually want higher end components that have high costs attached to them and require that games be available. While Mac games do exist, they do not even measure to the kind of availability that there is on Windows.

This is what drove Apple out of the segment in the first place. Now you think they can go back and be successful where they weren't in the last few months/years they were in it ?

Wishful thinking.

Thus, the reason for the alleged "gaping hole" in the lineup.

If it weren't for the inception of the bottom of the barrel low end desktop market, the ~$2,000 Mac Desktop/Tower would likely have remained.

Bargain Hunters be damned.

 

[KnightWRX]

Thus, the reason for the alleged "gaping hole" in the lineup.

Oh there is a gaping hole in the Apple line-up. Low-end desktop, mid-range desktop, low end laptops including laptops who's screen size isn't attached to price. This is a big market (except the mid-range desktops), as evidenced by the tons of such systems sold by Dell and at retail outlets like Best Buy.

The thing is, it's also the least profitable end of the market. Apple has decided it would be a niche player and it plays its niches well. Gaming is not a niche Apple can compete in due to the effort in recruiting 3rd party developers. Chicken and egg problem that the iPhone didn't present (since it wasn't a gaming device initially).

The thing with niche players is that they provide products for a few people. Not everyone is going to find something that makes him happy. The people that keep insisting Apple should cater to them don't quite get Apple and will always be frustrated.

 

[leekohler]

The fact that you are mixing history, partially quoting and then mangling our words to make an argument that is completely out of this world ? That's what you're dishonest about.

How am I "mixing history"?

 

[carmenodie]

I have a feeling that MS is behind this crap too. Look, if Apple did go and license off OSX they would be in the same boat as MS. Trying to get cheaper and cheaper pcs out the door so they can get that licensing money. The pc is a commercially worn out hot mess. MS is being chided by Wall Street to get that stock up. But how can they since they achieved their goal of putting a pc on every freaking desk. Hell(no pun intended), Jesus Christ was given a pc and because it sucks and has gotten viruses our lord and savior doesn't even know he's ready to return and take my a** out this b****. If he had a Mac we'd be in heaven right now.
Why'd I go off topic?

Burn up Paystar! BUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRNNNNNNNNNNAAAAHHHHH!!!!

 

[DMann]

Oh there is a gaping hole in the Apple line-up. Low-end desktop, mid-range desktop, low end laptops including laptops who's screen size isn't attached to price. This is a big market (except the mid-range desktops), as evidenced by the tons of such systems sold by Dell and at retail outlets like Best Buy.

The thing is, it's also the least profitable end of the market. Apple has decided it would be a niche player and it plays its niches well. Gaming is not a niche Apple can compete in due to the effort in recruiting 3rd party developers. Chicken and egg problem that the iPhone didn't present (since it wasn't a gaming device initially).

The thing with niche players is that they provide products for a few people. Not everyone is going to find something that makes him happy. The people that keep insisting Apple should cater to them don't quite get Apple and will always be frustrated.

Yes, I was agreeing with you - the gaping hole is justified by the current market demand.