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Why don't you realize that an LCD offers so much more potential to the device?

For other things, yes. For extended time reading, no.

If Apple gets it right, as they did with the iPhone, than the tablet will be a game changer. e-book readers might look nifty and cool, but at the moment they were introduced they were obsolete. I predict that a large percentage of people that bought these devices will put them in a drawer and replace them with a color LCD or OLED screen type as soon as devices become available that have enough power.

No, they won't. You simply don't understand the advantages of an e-ink screen. Please, go look at an e-reader and come back to the thread. There's simply no replacement for an e-ink screen, especially an LCD.
 
No, they won't. You simply don't understand the advantages of an e-ink screen. Please, go look at an e-reader and come back to the thread. There's simply no replacement for an e-ink screen, especially an LCD.

That depends on too many factors to say e-ink is better than anything else. Yes, I'll agree that e-ink will give you the longest battery life, but you can't read it in low-light conditions, nor will it handle illustrations all that well. Add to this the fact that white on black (or rather amber on black) is better for the eyes in almost every lighting condition, including and especially in a bright-light environment such as full sun, and the device becomes extremely limited. With the current e-ink devices are e-book readers only, being a one-trick pony doesn't help it either.

Now granted, you're not likely to be able to read an oled or lcd display in full sunlight; this makes the e-ink device the better choice in that case. On the other hand, the only time you'll be doing that is when you're sitting at the beach or out at the kids' ball game--where you'd be more likely to be paying attention to something far more interesting than a book. In my own case, if I want to read in bed or maybe read while the wife is watching TV, why should I disturb her by turning on a reading light that will cause a glare on the TV screen or possibly waken her from sleep? Maybe I won't get the same kind of battery life, but if you turn off the wireless until it's really needed, you should still be able to get a decent life out of the battery.
 
If it doesn't come out in Q1 (not just announced, but released), isn't under $750, doesn't allow non-iTunes based application installation (ie. the customer decides what is acceptable, not Apple), doesn't have a 9" or 10" screen, doesn't allow some form of user expandable storage (SDHC cards, for example), and doesn't have an option for being directly attached to a KVM switch (or at least an external keyboard and mouse) ... then I'm definitely buying an Entourage eDGe instead.

E-reader and tablet-computer all in one. Market based app installation AND non-Market based app installation. Under $500. Should be available in Q1. Keyboard via USB or Bluetooth. MicroSDHC cards via in-plug-USB adapters (and other USB storage as well).

Right now, for me, the Entourage eDGe is the device that Apple has to beat. The hardware must be better, the OS must be better, the software availability must be better (not just the number of titles, but also the diversity of mechanisms for getting that software), the e-reader capability and diversity of titles must be better, and the price has to be at least in the same ball park (if not also better). And, last, it has to stop being vaporware. Otherwise, why bother with Apple's tablet?

Aren't you putting an awful lot of qualifiers on that? After all, we already have pretty reliable information that it's going to be about 10" and most of the rest of that rant is just wishful thinking. Maybe the eDGe is good enough for you, but obviously it's not good enough for everybody, otherwise everybody would have one. I don't give a miner's boot what it can do, if it's not easy to use and doesn't have applications consumers want to use, it's worth far less than its selling price.

Vaporware? Who's vapor? Not Apple's Apple has never said they're working on such a device--it's all speculation based on patents, rumors and supposed leaks by suppliers that anything of the sort is even in the works! That doesn't mean I don't want one if the rumors turn out to be true, but why even try to set restrictions on something you're not sure about? For all you know, it could have all that and more. Conversely, it could be nothing but an oversized iPod Touch with nothing different on board. The second choice wouldn't bother me, but I expect when it comes out--if it comes out--that it will fall somewhere between an iPod Touch and a full MacBook in capability. I expect that it will effectively blow away the so-called 'Netbook' market and create a new niche all its own, maybe up against the almost-defunct "Crunchpad" as it's only competition.
 
Aren't you putting an awful lot of qualifiers on that? After all, we already have pretty reliable information that it's going to be about 10" and most of the rest of that rant is just wishful thinking.

a) (re: an awful lot of qualifiers) not at all. It's the things that are why I'll be buying the eDGe in February.

b) None of them are wishful thinking. They're all confirmed features of the eDGe.

Maybe the eDGe is good enough for you, but obviously it's not good enough for everybody, otherwise everybody would have one.

Did I say "no one will buy the Apple if it doesn't have these things"? No.
Did I say "everyone will buy the eDGe because he does have them"? No.

The point your making is irrelevant. The Apple Tablet (if it ever stops being vaporware) has to have those things in order to capture MY purchasing dollars. That's all I said. Nothing more, nothing less. For the purposes of THAT statement, no other person on the planet matters. For the purposes of THAT statement, I don't give a rat's posterior about whether or not it's good enough for anyone but me.

To put it concisely, I am no longer waiting for Apple to release a device in this product space. I am, instead, going to buy an eDGe. It's not perfect, but it has enough of what I want that there's no point in waiting longer for something that Apple might never do. And the only thing that would stop me from enacting that plan ... is if Apple DOES release something before February, and it has all of those same capabilities and features as what I listed.

My statement isn't about anyone else. It's about me, eDGe, and Apple. Trying to conflate it with "but what if it's not good enough for some other person" is just you ignoring the actual statement and trying to wander off on some other topic that has nothing to do with what I said.

Vaporware? Who's vapor? Not Apple's Apple has never said they're working on such a device

Did I say that Apple did? no.

I made no claim about WHOSE vapor it is. Just that it is, right now, vaporware.

That doesn't mean I don't want one if the rumors turn out to be true, but why even try to set restrictions on something you're not sure about?

Why have standards about anything? Why have a device shopping list at all?

I'm not a fan boy. My shopping list does not consist of "Whatever Apple Sells, I buy". The things I buy have to meet my needs, not the other way around. I'm merely stating what that list of standards and requirements are, if Apple wants my dollars. Come February, if Apple doesn't have something that meets my list, I will have spent my "mid-range tablet fund" on something else. After February, it wont matter what Apple releases, because no matter how good it is, it will be too late.

For all you know, it could have all that and more.

And, if it does, including the part about timeliness of release, price range, etc., then I'll most likely buy it.

Conversely, it could be nothing but an oversized iPod Touch with nothing different on board.

Which wont meet my standards, and I wont buy it.

The second choice wouldn't bother me, but I expect when it comes out--if it comes out--that it will fall somewhere between an iPod Touch and a full MacBook in capability.

Of course. No one reasonably expects it to be at either of those poles of capability. I merely demand that it be more like a MacBook in capabilities than an iPod Touch. Starting with: Not being limited to Apple's Market as the only source of non-bundled local applications.

I expect that it will effectively blow away the so-called 'Netbook' market and create a new niche all its own

I expect that it will create a new niche all its own, yes. Blow away the netbook market? Doubtful. That's like all of the ignorant people who say "Apple doesn't need a netbook, they have the iPod Touch". I just shows that the person in question has no clue what a netbook entails.

Could it eat into the netbook market? Definitely. But, I haven't seen nor heard anything that would indicate that it completely fills in the features of a netbook (starting with a built-in physical keyboard), so there will likely still be a separate market for netbooks.

It's more likely that, given Kindle software, and media feeds from the desperate media houses, that it will dry up the current "wild west" atmosphere in the e-reader market. Once Apple has a 10" tablet, with Kindle software, and such, even with an LCD panel, it will raise the bar of entry into that market such that there wont be any _new_ entrants after Apple. Unless it's someone with very deep resources.

Same as the smartphone market, post iPhone.

The other people who should be scared of the Apple Tablet ... is Archos. The Archos 7 and 9 will stop being interesting products, in comparison.

But the netbook market is different enough, that I don't see it being "blown away" by an Apple Tablet.

maybe up against the almost-defunct "Crunchpad" as it's only competition.

The Crunchpad isn't the only thing in that space.
 
It's simply not vaporware. Vaporware is when a company announces a product and then continuously delays releasing it far past the original stated time period. You're just wrong on the definition of vaporware.
 
It's simply not vaporware. Vaporware is when a company announces a product and then continuously delays releasing it far past the original stated time period. You're just wrong on the definition of vaporware.

The difference between the two uses of the term is negligible.
 
No, it's completely different.


No, it's not. The only difference is the origin of the idea.

Either way, people get all spun up, speculating and pontificating about what features it will or wont have, what affect it may or may not have on the market, blah blah blah. And, either way, there is no actual device that you can buy, use, or put side by side with actual devices from other vendors.

For the substantive parts of the concept, and its effect upon the market and community, the origin of the idea is unimportant. It's the impact that the idea has upon the community, and the fact that it doesn't actually exist as a product, that is important to the term "vaporware".
 
From Geek dictionary
Definition: A product--either hardware or software--that either a company announces but hasn't launched, or that there are rumors about--that gets a lot of hype but seems like it will never actually end up on store shelves. Next thing you know, it seems like a myth. Poof, it is gone, like vapor.
Usage: Is that Mac netbook ever going to come out, or is it just vaporware?

From Whatis.com
Vaporware is software or hardware that is either (1) announced or mentioned publicly in order to influence customers to defer buying competitors' products or (2) late being delivered for whatever reason. Most computer companies have from time to time delivered vaporware, either by calculation or unintentionally.


Neither of those say _who_ announced it (the company itself, conventional media columnists, blogosphere, wishful thinking from individuals, etc.). The first one specifically says it can come from _rumors_. Even definitions that imply that it comes from a company (Webopedia and Wikipedia) still fit the Apple Tablet, because these rumors are coming from companies that claim to be part of the production chain of the device. Company X is announcing "we're producing parts for the Apple Tablet". That fits those definitions of vaporware as well.

The fact that it isn't coming from Apple doesn't mean that it isn't still vaporware.
 
For other things, yes. For extended time reading, no.



No, they won't. You simply don't understand the advantages of an e-ink screen. Please, go look at an e-reader and come back to the thread. There's simply no replacement for an e-ink screen, especially an LCD.

I have seen e-ink screens and I don't like them. They are slow and are in grayscale. Although that might be good for reading books, it doesn't satisfy my need for more interactivity.

I sit the entire day behind an lcd screen and I don't have any problems with the reading off of it. Millions of people don't in fact. I think the greatness that many people see in these readers is in large part not attributable to the e-ink screen, but to the storage space, battery life and the ease of use. The marketing slogan for most readers is not "it looks just like paper", but "ditch the bookshelves and take your library with you".

Although I definitely see the point that e-ink is more paperlike. I see LCD technology overtaking it and making it obsolete. LCD's of a few years back were more difficult to look at compared to the screens now.

You simply don't understand...

You don't know what I understand and what I don't. You come off very smug after reading the rest of your posts on this page.
 
That depends on too many factors to say e-ink is better than anything else. Yes, I'll agree that e-ink will give you the longest battery life, but you can't read it in low-light conditions, nor will it handle illustrations all that well. Add to this the fact that white on black (or rather amber on black) is better for the eyes in almost every lighting condition, including and especially in a bright-light environment such as full sun, and the device becomes extremely limited. With the current e-ink devices are e-book readers only, being a one-trick pony doesn't help it either.

Now granted, you're not likely to be able to read an oled or lcd display in full sunlight; this makes the e-ink device the better choice in that case. On the other hand, the only time you'll be doing that is when you're sitting at the beach or out at the kids' ball game--where you'd be more likely to be paying attention to something far more interesting than a book. In my own case, if I want to read in bed or maybe read while the wife is watching TV, why should I disturb her by turning on a reading light that will cause a glare on the TV screen or possibly waken her from sleep? Maybe I won't get the same kind of battery life, but if you turn off the wireless until it's really needed, you should still be able to get a decent life out of the battery.

Totally agree. Battery life is overrated anyway. I spend my entire life within reach of power sockets, so any device that runs more than 4 hours is fine by me. The only thing that would be nice is if they would think of some kind of unified charging standard to power all my gadgets.
 
Totally agree. Battery life is overrated anyway. I spend my entire life within reach of power sockets, so any device that runs more than 4 hours is fine by me.

For me, it's very much the 80/20 rule:
80% of the time, 4 hours of battery life is fine.

20% of the time, I need 12 hour battery life.

(actually, 19% of the time, I need 12 hour battery life ... 1% of the time, I need 20ish hour battery life)

80% of the time is 20% of the pain ... 20% of the time is 80% of the pain. Plus, devices should be as efficient as practically possible. If it's possible to reduce the daily drain of your device, without losing a practical amount of capability, then you should embrace that higher efficiency design.

I wouldn't go all e-paper, for a non-reader device. E-paper doesn't have the frame rate for playing action games or watching videos. Even if/when they finally get color, it just wont be ready for high-frame rate activity. And then there's the whole "lighting" issue.

Hybrid displays, like PixelQi's LCD+e-paper display, give you the best of both, though. LCD for high frame rate activity or low light, and e-paper for low frame rate and low power activity. And, until e-paper has color, the LCD is also for color based activity. That combination also gives you better battery life, when you don't need the LCD.

IMO, any mid-range device that is trying to be BOTH an e-reader and a general purpose tablet (applications and media playing, etc.) ought to be using a hybrid display. If not PixelQi's, then one similar to it. It gives you that extra power efficiency without undue reduction in the capability of your device (I think it's 0 reduction in the capability of your device).

The only thing that would be nice is if they would think of some kind of unified charging standard to power all my gadgets.

They have. It's called "mini-USB". Huge hordes of cell phone makers have adopted it as their standard for charging. So you can plug your mobile device into any USB port, and both charge and sync. Or you can get a wall-wart with a USB port on it (power only). Or you can get a car charger with a USB port on it (again, power only). And it's an international standard -- every country uses the same power range and pin-outs for USB, so no worrying about it frying your gadget.

IMO: everything smaller than a laptop should use it. But, so far, I think cell phones and MIDs are the only things embracing it. Not sure about any mid-range devices (tablets, netbooks, e-readers). If possible, they should ... but I don't know if USB delivers enough power to charge a netbook in an appropriate amount of time.
 
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