Research in Motion's 7-Inch 'PlayBook' Tablet to Target Business Users

[NebulaClash]

You're right, I was looking points, not percentages. Still not a very convincing argument.

Thank you for having the decency to note the facts, I appreciate that.

I'm not trying to convince anyone on this point. The market made it very clear.

Yes, Apple stock often drops when they make a big announcement, but that's after a long build up leading to the announcement. This RIM announcement didn't have that sort of build up.

So on a day when the Dow, S&P and NASDAQ are all up, RIMM is down. Apple and those other stocks are also down, but only RIMM is down to that extent. If the market was impressed by the earnings potential for this new product line for the company, you wouldn't see this big of a drop. This is not just another phone, it's a new line, a new source of revenue. Wall Street loves new sources of revenue, but in this case they took a look and shrugged.

How anyone can argue otherwise is a mystery to me. Why is it that Rodimus and Knight are constantly cheering on Apple's competitors?

 

[KnightWRX]

Why is it that Rodimus and Knight are constantly cheering on Apple's competitors?

Cheering ? Where did I cheer RIM ? The fact that I'm trying to temper people that are constantly bashing Apple's competitors doesn't mean I am cheering them. Call it a plead for objectivity and a anti-"If it's not Apple it's not good" rant.

That's the problem with extremists like the "Apple does no wrong crowd". They see everyone who isn't as extreme as them as being on the "other side". The fact is, the world isn't black or white. Because I see Playbook as not an issue and I don't think a drop in RIM's stock is related to this tablet does not mean I am for or against this product.

In fact, my view on tablets is clear : Useless, the whole lot of them, including iPad, including the Galaxy Tab, including this Playbook.

 

[G58]

You mean the other meaning that says :



Or did you mean that other meaning :



No, that can't be it either... wait, this last one :



Nope. None of the meanings are even close to related to toys or gaming... Oh well. Maybe you meant in some other culture. Let's see what the World dictionary says :



No toys or gaming there. Hey look at that 2nd meaning! Wow, you'd think that could fit in a business/corporate setting...

Can we stop this "play" nonsense once and for all ? It's a non-argument. It's debunked, it never was anywhere close to right, nor is it an issue at all. Anyone who knows English knows a playbook is a book of tactics/strategies or something you'd have in a theater.

Why? Have you got RIM stock? Sell old chap, and sell quickly! Your desperation to end a debate also betrays your lack of knowledge in this area, so here's a short lesson:

All the definitions you offer here had to be researched, because they are not in common use. Therefore it's the connotations one puts on words that we're talking about. I've done this for 30 years. We would have rejected the name on the basis that it's too limited in identity scope.

I not only distrust anyone who seeks to end debate, based on any premise other than sound, logical knowledge and experience, I fire them at the first opportunity. And I enjoy it. I also give them glowing résumés. I also feel no guilt about passing on the equivalent of totalitarian style icon worshiping book burning fascists onto my competition.

 

[NebulaClash]

Cheering ? Where did I cheer RIM ? The fact that I'm trying to temper people that are constantly bashing Apple's competitors doesn't mean I am cheering them. Call it a plead for objectivity and a anti-"If it's not Apple it's not good" rant.

That's the problem with extremists like the "Apple does no wrong crowd". They see everyone who isn't as extreme as them as being on the "other side". The fact is, the world isn't black or white. Because I see Playbook as not an issue and I don't think a drop in RIM's stock is related to this tablet does not mean I am for or against this product.

In fact, my view on tablets is clear : Useless, the whole lot of them, including iPad, including the Galaxy Tab, including this Playbook.

OK, well that is a valid stance to take against the extremists, but please stop using that technique against me. I do acknowledge the strength of the other side when it's appropriate, and I admit when I make a mistake, so I'm not one of the extremists. I just happen to enjoy Apple's products, so I post here. But I get tired of you correcting me all the time, even when your correction is wrong. It feels like a vendetta against me or something, and it's weird.

It's interesting to me to see your viewpoint on tablets. My opinion is you are going to hate the next decade. I think it's going to be known as the tablet decade and by 2020 the majority of casual users will choose tablets and only the pros will still buy laptops. I could be wrong, of course, but that's my opinion. Clearly you hope for the opposite. That would partially explain why you and I disagree so often.

But let's just back off from each other and go our separate ways. It's getting old.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

How anyone can argue otherwise is a mystery to me. Why is it that Rodimus and Knight are constantly cheering on Apple's competitors?

Is that really your argument? To discredit me when I complete killed off yours.

Come on come after the point I made. Oh wait you can't because I am right. I took your entire argument and turned it on company you worship and killed your entire point.

You are proving why apple fans are not exactly respected for understanding things. They act like anything with Apple lab and anything with out an Apple label sucks.

 

[KnightWRX]

It's interesting to me to see your viewpoint on tablets. My opinion is you are going to hate the next decade. I think it's going to be known as the tablet decade and by 2020 the majority of casual users will choose tablets and only the pros will still buy laptops. I could be wrong, of course, but that's my opinion. Clearly you hope for the opposite. That would partially explain why you and I disagree so often.

Actually, I don't really care. As long as I can buy a laptop and do my stuff on it with my Unix system, I don't really care what other consumers do with their money. I didn't care that my choice of desktop (Linux) was sub-1% market share for the longest time just like I don't care that the Mac isn't more widespread.

As long as they don't take away the stuff I need, they can do whatever they want.

If they take away my precious laptops, then maybe I'll start hating the decade and cursing the move to tablets. That is of course if laptops don't become tablet hybrids that can work as both.

 

[NebulaClash]

Is that really your argument? To discredit me when I complete killed off yours.

Come on come after the point I made. Oh wait you can't because I am right. I took your entire argument and turned it on company you worship and killed your entire point.

You are proving why apple fans are not exactly respected for understanding things. They act like anything with Apple lab and anything with out an Apple label sucks.

Interesting to see you avoided my question.

As to your point, I already answered it. It's there for anyone reading this thread to see that I pointed out what you missed. So to see you talking about misunderstanding things is unintentional irony on your part.

EDITED: Instead of judging you without taking the time to do some research, I did look up your previous posts. I retract what I said about you. You do not always take the side of the Apple competitor. You often say bad things about Apple, but you can do so if you have reasons. Sorry for painting you out to be more one-sided than you are.

 

[G58]

You're right, I was looking points, not percentages. Still not a very convincing argument.



Again, goal posts moving. Lots of that going on this forum. He said "First major tablet", not "First major tablet with X sales" or "First major tablet to be sold at Y Retailer".

Samsung are launching in October ahead of RIM's playbook. As such, they will be on market first. Maybe we can wait for the launch to get the sales number hum ?

(And btw, the Nokia n800 was very popular in Europe, not in the States).

Not true. There were apparently loads of music players before the iPod, but if you ask 100 people in the street to name one, they won't be able to.

The term 'Major' has to be defined according to its relevance and its place in the market, where the market is defined globally.

When the Kindle was available only in the US, for no discernible commercial reasons [Amazon is the most global book store], it was irrelevant in all other markets - for the simple reason it wasn't on sale, and therefore had no users.

So relevance is defined by global users. I had a Nokia N95 until earlier this year. I detested it but I was locked into a contract in the UK. At no time did Nokia try to market anything called the n800 to me. I consider that a colossal fail. If it was any good, they apparently lacked the confidence to push it to me, a business customer. I also don't know anyone who has one, or who's even seen one.

Relevance.

So if you've appointed yourself goalkeeper on this subject, take that one between your legs.

 

[NebulaClash]

Actually, I don't really care. As long as I can buy a laptop and do my stuff on it with my Unix system, I don't really care what other consumers do with their money. I didn't care that my choice of desktop (Linux) was sub-1% market share for the longest time just like I don't care that the Mac isn't more widespread.

As long as they don't take away the stuff I need, they can do whatever they want.

If they take away my precious laptops, then maybe I'll start hating the decade and cursing the move to tablets. That is of course if laptops don't become tablet hybrids that can work as both.

Ah, a Linux guy. Very cool.

Don't worry, laptops won't go anywhere. Here's how I see things:

1. Mainframe era
2. Mini era
3. PC era
4. Tablet era

Can you still get a mainframe today? Sure, if you need it, that's the tool for you.

Can you still get a PC today? Obviously.

Will you be able to get a laptop with a keyboard in ten years? 100% for sure.

Just because an era ends, it doesn't wipe out that technology. It just means it's no longer the focal point of attention.

And Linux will most definitely be around in 10 years. As will Mac desktops and laptops. I still have one, but I love my iPad.

 

[samab]

I still remember hacking around with QNX many years ago. It does have several advantages as a lightweight OS, but this was really only relevant back in about 2003 when mobile and embedded devices where severely underpowered compared to their desktop relatives.

If anything, iOS and Android are the perfect example of a mobile OS design in the modern era. Both are OSes based on solid desktop platforms, with reasonably mature SDKs. In the case of iOS, it is even better as you can develop and app with the same API calls on the desktop and it is quite trivial to port it to the iPhone and iPad. This is a huge advantage to a dev in that you can write your modules once and then write a platform specific UI on top of your code.

Well, if you remember hacking around QNX --- then you know that QNX development has been pretty much self-hosted for the last 30 years.

 

[KnightWRX]

All the definitions you offer here had to be researched, because they are not in common use.

Uh ? No research, a simple dictionary search. They are the common definitions for the word. Which is more that can be said for your "sex toy", "toy" or "games" definitions which have simply no basis in reality or modern English.

I not only distrust anyone who seeks to end debate, based on any premise other than sound, logical knowledge and experience, I fire them at the first opportunity.

So how did it go when you fired yourself ?

 

[fox10078]

It says to be released in early 2011, right in time to have its thunder stole by the iPad 2.

 

[rjohnstone]

It says to be released in early 2011, right in time to have its thunder stole by the iPad 2.

I suspect not.
Different target audience.
The iPad is still a consumer device first and foremost.
RIM's primary market for the Playbook will be the enterprise/corporate market with any consumer purchases being treated as a secondary market.

 

[JohnnyQuest]

I suspect not.
Different target audience.
The iPad is still a consumer device first and foremost.
RIM's primary market for the Playbook will be the enterprise/corporate market with any consumer purchases being treated as a secondary market.

Even if it is targeted for a different market, I don't see this thing taking off the way the iPad has. It's just not as capable. I think that if business users want a tablet, the iPad will still be the first pick because of the apps, size, and performance. Plus, it's being released so late, that Apple WILL steal RIM's thunder with a new release of the iPad, most likely with FaceTime, Retina, Camera, etc.

My question is, who wants a 7-inch tablet? That's a few inches more than most new phones. Tablet's should have larger screens, as these devices play movies, browse the full internet, and type documents/emails. I'm just still a little confused by the concept and execution of the PlayBook.

 

[Al1n]

another ipad killer...

 

[rjohnstone]

Even if it is targeted for a different market, I don't see this thing taking off the way the iPad has. It's just not as capable. I think that if business users want a tablet, the iPad will still be the first pick because of the apps, size, and performance. Plus, it's being released so late, that Apple WILL steal RIM's thunder with a new release of the iPad, most likely with FaceTime, Retina, Camera, etc.

My question is, who wants a 7-inch tablet? That's a few inches more than most new phones. Tablet's should have larger screens, as these devices play movies, browse the full internet, and type documents/emails. I'm just still a little confused by the concept and execution of the PlayBook.

Define "capable" from a business perspective.
How many iPad apps are targeted at the business segment?
Think of all the IT departments that don't want the iPad.
Why? Security. It's unproven on the iPad.
FaceTime is pointless... real world standards for video conferencing will win out over niche feature any day in the corporate world.

The iPad's display is too big to accommodate "Retina" and keep it affordable.

7"... only 2.7" smaller than an iPad but already has two camera's for video conferencing and 1080p HDMI output for rich presentations.

And if a BB user can currently read/type emails and browse the web on the current BB screens, your argument regarding these actions on a 7" display is pointless.

I read it as being large enough to perform the task, yet small enough to stick in your suit jacket.

 

[Pilgrim1099]

Can I get a commemorative coin with it?

Only if you beg in front of Steve with a leather collar around your neck leashed to his hand.

 

[G58]

Uh ? No research, a simple dictionary search. They are the common definitions for the word. Which is more that can be said for your "sex toy", "toy" or "games" definitions which have simply no basis in reality or modern English.

Semantics. Looking up a word in a dictionary isn't research now. What colour is the sky where you come from?

 

[KnightWRX]

Semantics. Looking up a word in a dictionary isn't research now. What colour is the sky where you come from?

So you're saying you're out of arguments is that right ? The fact is, the definitions I offered are the common ones. End of argument, in a logical way based on current well established facts.

And no, a simple dictionary lookup is not research. It's a simple dictionary lookup. The research was done by the nice folks who wrote up the dictionary.

 

[G58]

So you're saying you're out of arguments is that right ? The fact is, the definitions I offered are the common ones. End of argument, in a logical way based on current well established facts.

And no, a simple dictionary lookup is not research. It's a simple dictionary lookup. The research was done by the nice folks who wrote up the dictionary.

I don't know anyone who employs the term Playbook in common everyday use in the UK. I'm aware of its derivations and usage in US football and basketball. I'm very much aware of its crossover into US male business speak, where it has extremely negative echoes of linear thinking...

I'm also aware of its use in literary, theatrical and movie industry circles, but again, not in common use in the UK. And it doesn't translate into other languages in the way RIM obviously hopes it will.

If you offer the word to people, and ask them what they think of when they hear 'playbook', they will sometimes smile with embarrassment and suggest a child's book or something salacious.

Perhaps it's because these two potential meanings are at the opposite ends of the spectrum the name has never been used. Imagine how many times someone must have suggested it before, only for it to be rejected. Why? It's as if someone at RIM found what they thought was a huge diamond lying on the sidewalk where tens of thousands of people walk every day, and said: "I Can't believe no-one picked it up before!" The reason seems to be obvious. It's not a diamond!

And then when you tell them it's a piece of technology and ask them what it does, they will suggest a games machine, possibly for kids.

Ask them: Does the name suggests a serious piece of equipment? and they will say "NO".

The reasons for this are obvious. We play around with sounds of words and what they suggest, in our heads, whenever we hear them. We immediately think of meanings - based on those phonetic sounds.

In the tech world, we've already had iBook, and have MacBook, so presumably RIM thought they'd steal some kudos from Apple. Indeed, if Apple was intending to launch a dedicated games machine, PlayBook might well have been on the list.

But imitation by RIM that close to a competitor's own branding is simply dangerous and idiotic. It's not made by Apple. But they did it anyway!! The risk of consumer rejection based on making that discovery alone is massive. It's like the rip-off stuff you see in Hong Kong.

And then we've got: 'Playboy', 'Game Boy', and even 'Playtoy' in our wider collective vocabularies. Remember, the majority of people have drawn the 'use' parallel with 'toy'.

The worst of these, from RIM's point of view, is Playtoy, which is a Japanese magazine dedicated to that country's peculiar fetishization of young girls! And it doesn't get much more dodgy than that.

The exception to this rule will be US sporting males [where it works for RIM] and UK theatrical people [where it clearly does not]. For the rest it's ambiguous with all the wrong connotations. So this is indicative of a company not researching beyond a very narrow audience band, excluding women, and focusing 100% on what it perceives as its core market. Trust me, that's not what smart companies are doing today.

End of.

 

[MythicFrost]

I don't think it'll be very good -- not the experience, but the battery life. They, in no way, mention anything slightly related to the life of the battery, etc., which they no doubt would if it had good battery life.

IIRC the battery in the iPad weighs about ~350g, which is about half of its total weight, the PlayBook only weighs 400g but has more powerful specs, etc.

 

[kdarling]

So this is indicative of a company not researching beyond a very narrow audience band, excluding women, and focusing 100% on what it perceives as its core market. Trust me, that's not what smart companies are doing today.

Of course, that comment also fits Apple's "iPad", which was laughed at, made crude fun of, and was generally seen as an bad example of not consulting any women.

Yet it managed to get past all the initial negative publicity and satirization.

In contrast, the worst that you have said about "Playbook" is that it might evoke a more playful or even sexual connotation, especially outside the USA. Considering that many/most of its business users are in North America, it seems like a good world choice.

 

[captain kaos]

Way to go Rim - real original idea you have there!

What can you say about this?

All that money - all those suits - and no imagination anywhere to be found.

Nobody complaining about the lack of keyboard? Bwahahaha!

App Rocking - my ass Lol.

Alright fanboy stop wetting your pants. Its flash ready and its competition. You should be happy with that as without it your lovely god mr jobs will sit on his arse and hand out sub par material every year. Oh, wait.....

 

[G58]

Of course, that comment also fits Apple's "iPad", which was laughed at, made crude fun of, and was generally seen as an bad example of not consulting any women.

Yet it managed to get past all the initial negative publicity and satirization.

In contrast, the worst that you have said about "Playbook" is that it might evoke a more playful or even sexual connotation, especially outside the USA. Considering that most of its business users are in North America, it seems like a good choice.

You're quite right. When everyone had iPad down as the least likely, I had a sizable bet on that it would be iPad. Why? Because I can now reveal that men were the only ones who found any titter value in the name. No women had any issues with it.

And that told me a lot. I expected Apple's tablet to be [among many other things] an entry level device for the young and the more senior for whom computing had passed them by. I perceived a large number of this later group would be women. And that's proven to be the case.

But I also trust Apple's thinking. They haven't made any mistakes - from Apple's point of view. Sure, they've left stuff out of early models, but those were very sound commercial decisions imo.

G

 

[kdarling]

So what are they gonna do with it? Buy it and sit it on their desks and just stare at it? Multipurpose computing devices are defined by the apps they run. No apps, no point in purchasing.

For corporations, such a tablet would be used with internal apps. Out of 30 years coding experience, I've spent the last ten writing mobile enterprise apps, using HTML/JS/CSS, Java, C and mixtures. Much of that should be easy to port over.

I've been in business for 20 years working with senior executives. I have never in my life seen a "Flash presentation". You need to get out of your mom's basement more often.

With comments like the last line, you sound much more like a teen than an adult with any such experience.

In any case, I was talking about sales force presentations, not the usual internal PPT meetings. Quite often, sales people use Flash based apps or websites to introduce products and especially to do a simulation of them.

The iPad and the Android tablets will own the entire space by the time this oddball dud makes its debut.

As I said, I've heard from many customers who have been waiting for a RIM tablet. Personally, I'm not convinced that the initial 7" form factor is perfect for all their needs, but they don't seem to care. They just want to replace their Windows tablets, and the replacement needs to fit in their current security and management infrastructure.

Uh-huh. Nobody will buy this thing, dude. It serves no business function, right down to its wonky form factor. Too small to do useful work on, wrong aspect ratio for working with documents, no keyboard and no apps. The Canadian gang that can't shoot straight takes yet another shot at Apple and manages to shoot itself in the foot.

RIM's tablet is clearly first and foremost an attempt to defend their enterprise turf. At that, I think they've made a good start.

You're quite right. When everyone had iPad down as the least likely, I had a sizable bet on that it would be iPad. Why? Because I can now reveal that men were the only ones who found any titter value in the name. No women had any issues with it.

On the contrary, there were lots of female reporters bemoaning the iPad name. Even a quick Google shows dozens of such articles, for example this one from the New York Times:

When Apple announced the name of its tablet computer today — the iPad — my mind immediately went to the feminine hygiene aisle of the drugstore. It turns out I wasn’t alone.

The term “iTampon” quickly became a trending topic on Twitter because of Tweets like this one: “Heavy flow? There’s an app for that!” A CNBC anchor, Michelle Caruso-Cabrera, said the iPad was a “terrible name” for the tablet. “It reminds me of feminine products,” she said.

“Are there any women in Apple marketing?” asked Brooke Hammerling, founder of Brew Media Relations, a technology public relations firm. “The first impression of every single woman I’ve spoken to is that it’s cringe-inducing. It indicates to me that there wasn’t a lot of testing or feedback.”

But perhaps this was mostly in the USA.