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Cutwolf

macrumors 6502
Oct 11, 2010
395
0
It is bad for Apple, the price of an iPad in the US is not the same as the price of an iPad in other countries. People are buying the cheaper US iPad to sell it overseas where Apple is selling a more expensive iPad.
Apple loses that profit.

How many resellers do you really think have the connections or know how to sell it overseas?

I'd wager a vast minority intend to just throw it up on ebay or craigslist.

It's not a big enough problem for Apple to try and put a stop to it, because the amount of people buying two or three and selling them domestically almost certainly outweighs the lost profits from overseas sales.

It also helps Apple satisfy demand overseas.

Also will also be able to tout higher sales figures.

So on, so forth.
 

AJsAWiz

macrumors 68040
Jun 28, 2007
3,262
347
Ohio
I think your assessment is accurate

This.

It is no-ones fault except for the seemingly unending supply of people willing to spend well over retail for immediate gratification. And us Americans wonder why the world thinks we are all self absorbed and greedy.

As to the relatively small number going to the grey market - that happens with all products and it flows both ways. You can get Japanese products here in the US that were never meant for the US market for the same reason.

I agree but
No fault intended (on my part), just stating a fact.
 

zorahk

macrumors 6502
Jul 18, 2008
468
0
North Korea
How many resellers do you really think have the connections or know how to sell it overseas?

I'd wager a vast minority intend to just throw it up on ebay or craigslist.

It's not a big enough problem for Apple to try and put a stop to it, because the amount of people buying two or three and selling them domestically almost certainly outweighs the lost profits from overseas sales.

It also helps Apple satisfy demand overseas.

Also will also be able to tout higher sales figures.

So on, so forth.

The discussion was mainly based around the chinese resellers who are sending it to hong kong.

Unless you've been living under a rock the past few days....
 

Cutwolf

macrumors 6502
Oct 11, 2010
395
0
Apple wants everyone buying from them. Period. When I say them, I mean Apple or affiliates they have signed agreements with

This idea that Apple is helped by people re-selling is a bit laughable with nothing whatsoever behind it.

Let's say Apple sold 1 million iPads on launch weekend.

There were 600,000 user-purchasers (single ipad purchase), and 200,000 resellers, who bought and resold an average of 2 per reseller .

From the 600,000 user purchasers, Apple made $120,000,000 profit.

From the 200,000 resellers, Apple made $80,000,000 profit.

$200,000,000 profit.

Additionally, there are tons of people who don't want to resell who will purchase the iPad at a later date (reseller purchasers are time sensitive; user-purchaser purchasers are not).

Now let's say Apple finds a way to prevent reselling using some amazing iTechnology that makes the device explode if it enters another country prior to that country's launch.

Apple has lost $80,000,000 in profit from those 200,000 resellers who will no longer purchase. They'll still sell out, but that's 200,000 people who would have bought that won't anymore.

If Apple implemented a 1 per customer/CC policy, as suggested above, they'd make the same amount (likely in the form of more user-purchasers getting them, so it might be 800,000/200,000), but guess what? The resellers will just up the price accordingly! Instead of 400,000 iPads being resold, there will be 200,000 iPads being resold. Thus, instead of $1500 for a 64 gb 3g, you'd be looking at around $2500-$3000 for it. Is this a better system? If you're one of the 800,000 who got one, definitely. If not, you'd still be complaining about resellers.

Moral of the story? It's only a real problem for the impatient user-purchaser. Apple makes money (unlikely outweighed by the difference lost through sales to a foreign market*) from the resellers who aren't likely to purchase in 3 months, and makes money from the user-purchaser who gets boxed out by the reseller but will still purchase in 3 months. So where's the incentive for Apple to put a stop to reselling?




*this is an unknown, but the markup probably brings the cost sufficiently close to the retail price in those foreign markets that we're not talking about that huge of a difference.

The discussion was mainly based around the chinese resellers who are sending it to hong kong.

What's the problem here, exactly? Apple will still sell out whenever/if they launch in Hong Kong, and in the meantime, they're selling thousands (hundreds of thousands?) more than they otherwise would have in America.
 
Last edited:

PatrickCocoa

macrumors 6502a
Dec 2, 2008
751
149
You're Right

You forget one thing though - that person the reseller is likely selling to is in Asia or Europe. These iPads were meant for US customers. European and Asian iPad customers are getting their own launches and shouldn't be raiding ours.

You're right, I had never considered the nationality or skin color of the ones who benefit from the resellers. But even now that you've pointed it out, I still feel that who will benefit is irrelevant.

First off, it's not my job to enforce Apple's desire to limit sales to one country.

Secondly, I'm not sure why we should preference those in the US over those outside the US.

Thirdly, if we removed the outside the US issue (let's say all of the resellers were from suburban US areas without Apple stores and we knew they'd take them back to the suburbs and sell them to US teachers, firefighters, and musicians), would anyone's feelings towards the resellers change?
 

marmiteturkey

macrumors 6502a
Aug 27, 2005
911
1,013
London
Precisely

Precisely what? There are lots of things I wouldn't want to happen to me. Doesn't make them fair, and it doesn't mean the people doing it are 'douchebags'.

Some people on this forum need to grow up and get a sense of perspective.
 

OceanView

macrumors 65816
Sep 16, 2005
1,094
39
I have to admit, after spending time in an iPad line today in NYC, the (obvious) resellers really bummed me out. Not because what I think they're doing is wrong neccessarily, but because it's just plain nauseating to think that thousands of iPads are leaving this country every day (headed right back where they came from by the looks of it) as soon as they get here, in the hands of people who probably don't even know what they are or care, when so many people who truly want one here can't seem to get one.

Standing for a few hours on an Apple line used to be fun. You got to meet old time Mac geeks and new ones too. People held their line-neighbor's place if they needed a bathroom break or food/water. There was a transient sense of community.

Today, the guy behind me, clearly a reseller, coughed all over me for 45 minutes while reading a Chinese newspaper. The people in front of me, 3 Asians, speaking what sounded like Chinese, and zero English, yammered with loud voices to each other, and on their Blackberries (no iPhones), for the entire time, coordinating their efforts with the the head of the gang who could be seen walking up and down the line like a shift boss. At one point, another group of 3 Asians (including a toothless old lady wearing slippers) tried to join them by cutting, but were shown the end of the line by an Apple employee.

Needless to say, there was no sense of community in my part of the line this time. If I had tried to get someone to hold my place, I'm sure it would have been gone when I got back. I suspect it will be this way from now on, at least in NYC.

On the other hand, part of me feels sorry for these people. Clearly they're out to make a fast buck any way they can. Their job opportunities are likely very limited, especially if they're illegal, which many in Chinatown are. When the iPad fever wanes, it will be months before a new product and the line standers will probably have to go back to shelling seafood in a dimly lit basement on Chrystie Street.

Sorry to hear your frustrations and I sympathize.
I hope these types of things do not make you generalize about a group of people. There are resellers of every nationality but you are seeing an obvious group of people that makes them more identifiable.

Most of these problems could have been avoided if Apple did the same thing from last year by taking preorders on online.
iPads then would be shipped to an address on a first come first serve basis and many could avoid the frustrations of long lines at the stores.
 

alent1234

macrumors 603
Jun 19, 2009
5,688
170
I have to admit, after spending time in an iPad line today in NYC, the (obvious) resellers really bummed me out. Not because what I think they're doing is wrong neccessarily, but because it's just plain nauseating to think that thousands of iPads are leaving this country every day (headed right back where they came from by the looks of it) as soon as they get here, in the hands of people who probably don't even know what they are or care, when so many people who truly want one here can't seem to get one.

Standing for a few hours on an Apple line used to be fun. You got to meet old time Mac geeks and new ones too. People held their line-neighbor's place if they needed a bathroom break or food/water. There was a transient sense of community.

Today, the guy behind me, clearly a reseller, coughed all over me for 45 minutes while reading a Chinese newspaper. The people in front of me, 3 Asians, speaking what sounded like Chinese, and zero English, yammered with loud voices to each other, and on their Blackberries (no iPhones), for the entire time, coordinating their efforts with the the head of the gang who could be seen walking up and down the line like a shift boss. At one point, another group of 3 Asians (including a toothless old lady wearing slippers) tried to join them by cutting, but were shown the end of the line by an Apple employee.

Needless to say, there was no sense of community in my part of the line this time. If I had tried to get someone to hold my place, I'm sure it would have been gone when I got back. I suspect it will be this way from now on, at least in NYC.

On the other hand, part of me feels sorry for these people. Clearly they're out to make a fast buck any way they can. Their job opportunities are likely very limited, especially if they're illegal, which many in Chinatown are. When the iPad fever wanes, it will be months before a new product and the line standers will probably have to go back to shelling seafood in a dimly lit basement on Chrystie Street.

so the people in china paying $2000 an ipad have no idea what they are?
 

Deliverator007

macrumors member
May 28, 2010
48
0
I walk by the Fifth Avenue store every morning, and it's just getting worse. On Monday and Tuesday mornings, which were both cold mornings, there were probably 200 to 300 people lined up, with probably 98% part of the reselling scam. This morning, when it was not only cold but raining as well, there were at least twice as many people, with the line going down Fifth to 58th, across to Madison, back up to 59th, and then ACROSS THE STREET to continue up Madison towards 60th. And, yet again, probably 98% there for the reselling scam.
 

DrHockey

macrumors newbie
Nov 6, 2008
21
0
Could end this problem real quick if apple had a brain:

One per customer, buy with credit/debit card only, and that card is blacklisted from buying another ipad when you buy one.
So no coming back tomorrow and getting another.
Furthermore, you should have to show a valid form of US ID (driver's license, passport) to prove that you are a US citizen or at least a legitimate foreign resident.

Reseller problem solved.

While the situation stinks, I don't think Apple would go to a CC/Debit only system. First, you block people who aren't resellers but still want to purchase with cash. Second, cash is better for Apple's bottom line - they don't pay the CC discount fee (~2% to 3%).

Leaving aside any legal implications of requiring ID at purchase (I'm not sure there are but it's possible - Apple isn't a liquor store), who is to say this would really put a stop to this? You're assuming that the vast majority of these people are illegals. Even if some are, some of them undoubtedly have a forged license or some such thing. It just seems onerous.

I don't know how widespread this problem is but in NYC, Apple might want to consider going to a one iPad per person for the short term. They should also see if they have any legal means at their disposal to chase off some of the ring leaders.

The best way to prevent this is worldwide launch with ample supply. Considering how quickly Apple wants to move on these things, that would be difficult.
 

manman

macrumors regular
Aug 18, 2008
125
1
"I walked right up to the guy with all the bags and said, 'Shame on you,' " said the woman, a Manhattan event planner who asked that her name not be used for fear she would be blackballed by the store and never get her iPad 2.

"He just laughed at me," she said.

Best part of the article. Poor "ordinary" customer lost her god given right to own an ipad :( Damn those evil unordinary Chinese customers willing to pay more...over there in Chinaland... Brings tears to my eyes. This seems to be where all the crying is going on, so I figured it was the right place for me.
 

CrAkD

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Feb 15, 2010
3,180
255
Boston, MA
Precisely what? There are lots of things I wouldn't want to happen to me. Doesn't make them fair, and it doesn't mean the people doing it are 'douchebags'.

Some people on this forum need to grow up and get a sense of perspective.

Scumbags. but douchebags will do. Some people on this forum need to lighten up and not be conservative moral crusaders about every little thing. Ya if it happened to you you'd be just as annoyed but since it didn't it's just "free enterprise". please.
 

deeddawg

macrumors G5
Jun 14, 2010
12,245
6,393
US
Ya if it happened to you you'd be just as annoyed but since it didn't it's just "free enterprise". please.

Indeed. It's easier for people to blame someone else for their situation than it is to suck it up and realize they didn't do what they needed to do in order to succeed.
 

T4R06

macrumors 65816
Oct 8, 2007
1,212
74
CT
@manman - it seems you dont know what you are talking about. do you know that people who made the ipad and most apple products are asians? (china)

you stupid ********er!
 

marmiteturkey

macrumors 6502a
Aug 27, 2005
911
1,013
London
Scumbags. but douchebags will do. Some people on this forum need to lighten up and not be conservative moral crusaders about every little thing. Ya if it happened to you you'd be just as annoyed but since it didn't it's just "free enterprise". please.

The MORAL argument is surely the one that says 'I won't make money legally because I feel some sense of misguided loyalty to someone who wouldn't get an iPad 2 for a couple of weeks if I do'.

Nor am I a neocon lunatic saying 'AMERICAN IPADS FOR AMERICANS'!


You know what? I see that iPads are likely to be sold out when I arrive in the US on a business trip this week, so I sucked it up and paid a little extra for one on eBay from a reseller. Because they have one and I don't. And I'm not prepared to wait, because I sold my iPad 1 to a friend a couple of weeks ago and I want a replacement ASAP. So, if you like, I am a 'victim' of the resellers. Or, I'm a 'victim' of not living near enough an American Apple Store. But really, I'm a victim of my own impatience, and that's my problem, not the reseller's. I'm not angry or annoyed. And I'm not impotently snivelling about the injustice of it all on an internet forum, either.
 

CrAkD

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Feb 15, 2010
3,180
255
Boston, MA
I'm not sniveling either. I got mine on launch day. Didn't pay a penny over retail either. I'm just saying that if these people got real jobs everyone who wanted one on launch day or launch weekend for that matter would have one.

I'm well enough off that I dont need the $50 badly enough to help these dirtbags. I know it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. they will just get someone else but to me it matters and I don't care what know it all posters on the Internet think about it.
 

CrAkD

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Feb 15, 2010
3,180
255
Boston, MA
Forgive me for asking... but why bother posting it on a forum if you don't want to hear other opinions?

I knew that was coming. I'll listen to the opinions what I meant was it won't sway the way I feel about it. I mainly posted this for anyone who was standing at the end of a line on launch day and was turned away. Now you know why there weren't enough.
 

deeddawg

macrumors G5
Jun 14, 2010
12,245
6,393
US
I'm a victim of my own impatience, and that's my problem, not the reseller's. I'm not angry or annoyed. And I'm not impotently snivelling about the injustice of it all on an internet forum, either.


Wow.

Nice to see someone who takes responsibility and owns up to themselves.

I salute you!
 

Scottological

macrumors member
Sep 8, 2008
75
0
Denver, CO
Best part of the article. Poor "ordinary" customer lost her god given right to own an ipad :( Damn those evil unordinary Chinese customers willing to pay more...over there in Chinaland...

Amen. Thank you for posting that.

The attitude in this thread is breathtakingly ignorant.

This "scalping" amounts to paying someone else to stand in line. There is nothing wrong with that. In fact, these scalpers are to be saluted for their enterprise.

It would be one thing if these people were standing in line for, say, some sort of rare life-saving medicine, but they're not. They're waiting for iPads which no one needs and will be available everywhere in the country in about three months.

The sense of entitlement here just staggers the imagination. I have rarely seen such a bunch of soft, indolent little children.

Grow up. You'll all be able to ride your motorized scooters from the Cinnabon to the Apple Store and get your precious iPads soon enough.
 

Jcoz

macrumors 6502
Mar 25, 2008
349
0
You forget one thing though - that person the reseller is likely selling to is in Asia or Europe. These iPads were meant for US customers. European and Asian iPad customers are getting their own launches and shouldn't be raiding ours.

That's your own assumption.

If they were realy meant to be for US CITIZENS (which is what I think you mean), then they'd be asking for an ID or Passport at sale.

Not meant towards you, but also I see allot of arguments about people thinking these are going to people who somehow dont want them like Americans do, when in fact, in the end, the person who is willing to pay 2x+ MSRP wants them WAYYY more than anyone UNWILLING to pay that price.
 
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