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Resurrecting the Fortnightly Challenge: Input and Ideas Please

My stab at a boilerplate for the challenge:

Welcome to the Fortnightly Challenge!

The purpose of this thread is to help photographers of all skill levels to improve and evolve their photography. Anyone who is willing to take a photo or offer a comment is welcome to participate.

The Structure:

TOPIC THREADS:

• A collaborative topic thread should be posted every six weeks. Participants will suggest and discuss topics, and a poll at the end will determine which three are the most popular. Those three will constitute the next topic schedule. Any forum member may post a new topic thread upon seeing that the current schedule of topics is about to run out.

CHALLENGE THREADS:

• Topics on the schedule will appear in succession as active challenge threads for two weeks per topic. Any forum member may post the new fortnightly challenge thread once the current one has expired.

How to Participate in the Challenge:

PHOTOS:

1) Look at the schedule of upcoming topics and shoot photos for as many of them as you want. There is no limit to the number of photos you shoot, but they should be created with a challenge topic in mind. Put your best foot forward: post only the shots you feel are your best efforts for a given topic. Resist the temptation to post a photo from your personal photo archives. If you want feedback on an older photo, create a thread of your own or else post it in the Photo of the Day thread and request C&C.

2) When a topic that you have prepared for becomes the active one, post your photo(s) for that topic in the relevant challenge thread. Also please consider commenting on other photos in the challenge.

3) After receiving comments on your photo, consider reshooting or reprocessing them, if time allows. Try to put the feedback to good use. You are welcome to repost your revisions for further feedback in the same thread, even after that topic is no longer the active one.

COMMENTS:

1) Look at the photos posted in the challenge thread and choose one or more to comment upon. Anyone may comment, even people who have not posted any photos.

2) Try to offer comments that are specific and constructive. Criticism should be good natured and thoughtful.

That's it! Have fun!
 
Phrasikleia said:
Welcome to the Fortnightly Challenge!

The purpose of this thread is to help photographers of all skill levels to improve and evolve their photography. Anyone who is willing to take a photo or offer a comment is welcome to participate.

The Structure:

TOPIC THREADS:

• A collaborative topic thread should be posted every six weeks. Participants will suggest and discuss topics, and a poll at the end will determine which three are the most popular. Those three will constitute the next topic schedule. Any forum member may post a new topic thread upon seeing that the current schedule of topics is about to run out.

CHALLENGE THREADS:

• Topics on the schedule will appear in succession as active challenge threads for two weeks per topic. Any forum member may post the new fortnightly challenge thread once the current one has expired.

How to Participate in the Challenge:

PHOTOS:

1) Look at the schedule of upcoming topics and shoot photos for as many of them as you want. There is no limit to the number of photos you shoot, but they should be created with a challenge topic in mind. Put your best foot forward: post only the shots you feel are your best efforts for a given topic. Resist the temptation to post a photo from your personal photo archives. If you want feedback on an older photo, create a thread of your own or else post it in the Photo of the Day thread and request C&C.

2) When a topic that you have prepared for becomes the active one, post your photo(s) for that topic in the relevant challenge thread. Also please consider commenting on other photos in the challenge.

3) After receiving comments on your photo, consider reshooting or reprocessing them, if time allows. Try to put the feedback to good use. You are welcome to repost your revisions for further feedback in the same thread, even after that topic is no longer the active one.

COMMENTS:

1) Look at the photos posted in the challenge thread and choose one or more to comment upon. Anyone may comment, even people who have not posted any photos.

2) Try to offer comments that are specific and constructive. Criticism should be good natured and thoughtful.

That's it! Have fun!
Click to expand...

Phrasikleia, looks good to me. Really nice job of distilling all that was discussed. Do we want to remind people to only post one picture at a time or is that not a big issue? Dale and JD what do you think?
 
It has around 100 more words that the intro and rules we developed for POTD. I think it could say the same with a lower word count.

It covers the salient points well.

Dale
 
The first time we evaluated how this forum was going we decided there were too many rules and that "enforcement" would always be a problem. We have not yet reopened the forum and I am already feeling there are too many rules.

Simple means more accessible. Fewer rules creates more opportunity. A "simple" and "more well defined" topic does not exclude anyone while a technical theme ("golden hour", etc) will exclude. I like the idea of vote over consensus, the 4/14 day format, and working a couple of threads ahead. While it would be lovely if every image was posted during the challenge period that is simply not realistic. I have a family, a job and a half, and additional hobby interests. I would hate to think I'm not welcome to post just because the image is more that 60 days old.
 
My draft has slipped back one page. Here is a repost.


A Topic Thread with a poll will be used to select Challenge topics. The Topic Thread will collect topics for a total of three Challenge threads (six weeks of photography)

Each Challenge will run for two weeks (one fortnight).

Shoot for the topics listed in the Topic thread. You may shoot for upcoming topics, but post photos only to their matching Challenges

You may post as many photos as you wish for any one Challenge.

Comments are critical to the success of the Challenge. If you post a photo, add a comment to another one. If you are only viewing, please add your comments, also.

Comments should be meaningful, something that the photographer can use to improve his/her work. Explain why you like or dislike a photo. "I like this photo because the colors are nice and warm" means more than " I like the colors".

Add this:

CARRY-OVER

The Fortnight Challenge is meant to be forum-owned. When it is time to open the next Topic Thread, anyone active in the Challenge may do so.

Dale

Edit: This is a draft. Madam P's Welcome is well written.
 
I welcome ideas on how to make it more pithy, but I was hoping to make the boilerplate friendly and accessible by using a more colloquial tone and by including simple headers to organize everything neatly.
 
deep diver said:
The first time we evaluated how this forum was going we decided there were too many rules and that "enforcement" would always be a problem. We have not yet reopened the forum and I am already feeling there are too many rules.

Simple means more accessible. Fewer rules creates more opportunity. A "simple" and "more well defined" topic does not exclude anyone while a technical theme ("golden hour", etc) will exclude. I like the idea of vote over consensus, the 4/14 day format, and working a couple of threads ahead. While it would be lovely if every image was posted during the challenge period that is simply not realistic. I have a family, a job and a half, and additional hobby interests. I would hate to think I'm not welcome to post just because the image is more that 60 days old.
Click to expand...

I want to understand your concerns better.

Which "rules" in particular bother you?

What's this about not being able to post something after 60 days? I'm not following you.

What is a 4/14 format? (4 what?)

How is "Golden Hour" technical and exclusive? "Long Exposure" or "Off Camera Flash" would be technical and exclusive, but Golden Hour? And, more importantly, what does this have to do with establishing guidelines for challenge participation?
 
fcortese said:
Phrasikleia, looks good to me. Really nice job of distilling all that was discussed. Do we want to remind people to only post one picture at a time or is that not a big issue? Dale and JD what do you think?
Click to expand...

I like it just fine. I think we are headed in the right direction and the boiler plate post can be refined over time. I don't think it's a big issue to post more than 1 pic at a time. You might even have a series that you want everyone to see. I do find it difficult to comment on peoples post when there are tons of images in one post but that will be self correcting in the challenge. Most folks will post one at a time anyway.
 
There were suggestions about keeping the rules as succinct as possible. I've looked at this thread and with thanks and apologies to whoever wrote the blurb for the last challenge and Phrasikleia, I've incorporated parts from each to try to narrow it down as much as possible. Please feel free to ignore it, change it or otherwise maul it about, I won't be offended! :)



Welcome to the Fortnightly Challenge!

The purpose of this thread is to help photographers of all skill levels to improve and evolve their photography. Anyone who is willing to take a photo or offer a comment is welcome to participate.


Guidelines for posting in the Fortnightly Challenge:

  1. Photos should be your own work.
  2. If you post a photo, it must be shot for the Challenge, not one from your archives!
  3. When you post, please give positive feedback and constructive criticism about the previous photo and any others you wish.
  4. You do not need to post a photo to comment on one.


Every six weeks there will be a thread for suggestions for the next three topics. The suggestions will be put into a poll to select which three will be chosen.
 
^^I guess I'm missing any mention of the topic schedule and the point that you can work ahead on upcoming topics. That seems to me to be a selling point to get people involved, but maybe that much will become obvious?
 
Mmm, maybe it could be clearer. I was referring to the topic schedule in the last line, but I could possibly give it a heading? No. 2 referred to the fact that all shots must be shot for the Challenge. Do you think it needs some more explanation?
 
Ish: JohnMC opened the original Fortnightly Challenge. It looked like this:

Topic

Hi All,

We need to come up with a topic for our next fortnightly challenge (dates above). If you have an idea, please post below.


Challenge Photo Thread

Fortnightly Challenge - Nov 6 thru Nov 19

Challenge topic: Curvilinear i.e. Lines and Curves

The challenge will run from right now until : 11:59PM Nov 19

Rules
1. Photos should be your own work.
2. Produced within the challenge period if possible.
3. All positive feedback and criticism is encouraged and welcome if you posted or not.
4. There is no real limit to the number of photos you may enter.

Challenge topics:
1. Suggestions for the bi-weekly's challenge are made in a single thread which will be set up the week before.

Lets have fun!!!

Dale
 
Phrasikleia said:
Welcome to the Fortnightly Challenge!

The purpose of this thread is to help photographers of all skill levels to improve and evolve their photography. Anyone who is willing to take a photo or offer a comment is welcome to participate.

The Structure:

TOPIC THREADS:

• A collaborative topic thread should be posted every six weeks. Participants will suggest and discuss topics, and a poll at the end will determine which three are the most popular. Those three will constitute the next topic schedule. Any forum member may post a new topic thread upon seeing that the current schedule of topics is about to run out.

CHALLENGE THREADS:

• Topics on the schedule will appear in succession as active challenge threads for two weeks per topic. Any forum member may post the new fortnightly challenge thread once the current one has expired.

How to Participate in the Challenge:

PHOTOS:

1) Look at the schedule of upcoming topics and shoot photos for as many of them as you want. There is no limit to the number of photos you shoot, but they should be created with a challenge topic in mind. Put your best foot forward: post only the shots you feel are your best efforts for a given topic. Resist the temptation to post a photo from your personal photo archives. If you want feedback on an older photo, create a thread of your own or else post it in the Photo of the Day thread and request C&C.

2) When a topic that you have prepared for becomes the active one, post your photo(s) for that topic in the relevant challenge thread. Also please consider commenting on other photos in the challenge.

3) After receiving comments on your photo, consider reshooting or reprocessing them, if time allows. Try to put the feedback to good use. You are welcome to repost your revisions for further feedback in the same thread, even after that topic is no longer the active one.

COMMENTS:

1) Look at the photos posted in the challenge thread and choose one or more to comment upon. Anyone may comment, even people who have not posted any photos.

2) Try to offer comments that are specific and constructive. Criticism should be good natured and thoughtful.

That's it! Have fun!
Click to expand...

I like it.

Designer Dale said:
It has around 100 more words that the intro and rules we developed for POTD. I think it could say the same with a lower word count.

It covers the salient points well.

Dale
Click to expand...

I don't know why you think it's too long- but I think brevity is trumped by friendliness in wording.

Paul
 
We could go with the long, detailed version for those that like that one (I count myself in that group), and then add a TL;DR version that other people have mentioned :D

I just want to say thanks and great work to everyone thats been working hard on this. I have been lurking and reading everyone's input, but haven't contributed much myself. I think you all are definitely heading in the right direction. I love all of the ideas so far.
 
It sounds like a great idea to get the challenge back up and running. I was sorry to have to cancel it at the end of last year because of lack of interest. It is good to see people are interested again.

I have one suggestion for the new format (which I love BTW), put Dale in charge of posting the request for new topics thread. If anyone can post the thread, it looses the crisp formatting that comes from one person doing the job. If, for example, the thread title changes every time, the threads become hard to find. So I would suggest that Dale post a thread every six weeks and then we all post on it then.

By the way, Dale also has my blessing to take over the management of the challenge. Until my school schedule opens up, I will be participating as a photographer.

JohnMC
 
JohnMC said:
It sounds like a great idea to get the challenge back up and running. I was sorry to have to cancel it at the end of last year because of lack of interest. It is good to see people are interested again.

I have one suggestion for the new format (which I love BTW), put Dale in charge of posting the request for new topics thread. If anyone can post the thread, it looses the crisp formatting that comes from one person doing the job. If, for example, the thread title changes every time, the threads become hard to find. So I would suggest that Dale post a thread every six weeks and then we all post on it then.

By the way, Dale also has my blessing to take over the management of the challenge. Until my school schedule opens up, I will be participating as a photographer.

JohnMC
Click to expand...

I have to say that I appreciate your concern for the longevity of the reincarnated thread, but I vehemently oppose the idea of a single individual being "in charge of" or even specifically associated with an internet forum thread. That is the kiss of death for any forum thread. In fact, just the opposite needs to be the case if a thread is to survive for any substantial length of time. The Photo of the Day Thread and the Weekly Contest should be evidence enough that a thread can continue on for years as a collaborate effort. Indeed, it is the collaborative, democratic nature of those threads that keeps them going.

The one time that the Weekly Photo Contest nearly met its demise was when a forum member suspected that it had become the 'property' of an oligarchical faction of the MR photo forum. He completely derailed one of the contests by protesting what he believed to be an 'owned' thread, causing the contest to have to be aborted and restarted as a new thread. I remember it well because it was the first time I had ever won a Weekly Photo Contest, so it was my first time as a judge. I was really disappointed that after all of my excitement at having won the contest for the first time, and having brainstormed for hours to come up with a topic, that someone would march in and try to upend it all. In reality, he was very mistaken; if there appeared to be an oligarchy in operation it was only because the same people tended to participate each week, unlike what we have now--which is terrific and was made possible by a thread that belongs only to "the forum." Nonetheless, I can completely understand his concerns and why he responded the way he did.

Internet culture in general takes a very dim view of 'ownership' or even of strong personalities who appear to dominate forums. I myself have been a target of this kind of resentment, so I know it well. I caution Dale against poisoning the culture of this new fortnightly challenge thread by creating any kind of position or title for himself that might position him as a ringleader/moderator/"cat herder"/owner or any such thing. The very idea that a thread is in some way connected to a certain individual or group of individuals is usually enough to scare away a lot of people. It may well be part of what limited participation the last time around.
 
Ringleader? Thanks, P. It's always nice to be recognized for my efforts.

I'm looking foreward to participating in the new Challenge.

Dale
 
Phrasikleia said:
Internet culture in general takes a very dim view of 'ownership' or even of strong personalities who appear to dominate forums. I myself have been a target of this kind of resentment, so I know it well. I caution Dale against poisoning the culture of this new fortnightly challenge thread by creating any kind of position or title for himself that might position him as a ringleader/moderator/"cat herder"/owner or any such thing. The very idea that a thread is in some way connected to a certain individual or group of individuals is usually enough to scare away a lot of people. It may well be part of what limited participation the last time around.
Click to expand...

I've been away on the road, just returned and am very tired so will have some good Sunday morning reading to do here ;)
So just a quick post from me :)

Phrasikleia I fully understand your concern on this problem that can occur general, I just wanted to express my belief that is isn't and won't be happening here :)

I see it as though Dale is volunteering a lot of his time and efforts into doing good for this community, as anyone may do.
It's impossible to do what Dale's doing without starting threads, polls, consensuses, activity threads to initially create something great, and then keep the momentum going. Sometimes this sort of coordination works best with one generous and committed person (and other times it doesn't :p I haven't seen that happening here though). When you have a lot of people there can sometimes be a 'someone else will do it' attitude which sometimes causes things to dwindle away, I strongly welcome Dale's 'if no one else will do it, I will' attitude.

(POTD has proved to be successful as a community effort, it's a relatively simple concept, Dale has generously come along and opened dialogue, formalising some things for the better, with some excellent guides and info, he should be recognised for it, but of course that doesn't mean he owns POTD).

I agree anyone should be able to start these discussions but I see no harm in Dale starting them, he like anybody. :)
Is he taking ownership and taking total control? No, he's guiding all of the ideas and thoughts to make for a great outcome, with the (also very generous) help of everyone posting here :)

Thanks Dale, and everyone here :)
 
Last edited:
First -- I completely agree with TheReef's respect for and appreciation of Dale's role and efforts.

Second -- I think we are losing sight of the fact that this is supposed to be fun. We're arguing about rules and ownership instead of moving forward sharing pictures. I've been part of this from the start and I know how good it can be. If I were a newcomer I would already have left by now. Just because something can be changed does not mean it has to be. Let's get on with it!!!!!!!!!!!

Flame away.
 
Designer Dale said:
Ringleader? Thanks, P. It's always nice to be recognized for my efforts.

I'm looking foreward to participating in the new Challenge.

Dale
Click to expand...

Dale, I like your new signature stating that you are the "ringleader of the internet." It's cute. You should keep it.

As for the thread, if what you want is recognition or status, then your true intentions are not what they should be. I had hoped that your efforts were aimed at creating a lasting thread that has value to the community, not at aggrandizing your own position within it.

You yourself warned earlier in this thread about any one person having "too much control." My agreement with that basic principle has nothing to do with you or any of your efforts.
 
Last edited:
Let's see if we can finalize this and get something up next week.

How about splitting what has been suggested into seperate posts. One for the Topic and one for the Photos?

For the Topic:


Welcome to the Fortnight Challenge Topic Thread

The purpose of the Fortnight Challenge is to help photographers of all skill levels to improve and evolve their photography. Anyone who is willing to take a photo or offer a comment is welcome to participate.

About the Topic Thread:

• This is a collaborative topic thread to be posted every six weeks. Participants will suggest and discuss topics, and a poll at the end will determine which three are the most popular. Those three will constitute the next topic schedule. Any forum member may post a new topic thread upon seeing that the current schedule of topics is about to run out. The last week of the running Challenge is a good time to do this. That will allow plenty of time for discussion.

• Topics on the schedule will appear in succession as active Challenge threads for two weeks (one fortnight) per topic. Any forum member may post the new fortnightly challenge thread once the current one has expired.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the Photo thread:

Welcome to the Fortnight Challenge Photo Thread

The purpose of the Challenge is to provide a venue where photographers of all skill levels can work to improve their craft by shooting along a common topic for two weeks - one fortnight. Helpful comments and critiques are key to reaching the intended goal - better photography by all.

About Your Photos

Shoot for the topics listed in the Topic thread. You may shoot for upcoming topics on the schedule, but post photos only to their matching Challenges.

You may post as many photos as you wish for any one Challenge.

About Your Comments

Comments are critical to the success of the Challenge. If you post a photo, add a comment to another one. If you are only viewing, please add your comments, also.

Comments should be meaningful, something that the photographer can use to improve his/her work. Explain why you like or dislike a photo. Spend a moment looking at a photo before commenting on it. Try to answer the question "I like this photo because…" It really helps the photographer.

The current topic is (whatever)

The active Topic Thread is <insert link>

Have fun!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Change the title to Fortnight Photo Challenge?

Dale
 
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