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Possible game changer

I said many negative things about this product i i still believe in my opinion, but this feature and the possibilities that it opens, could potentially change this product from a stupid fashion statement, the way it is now. To a revolutionary product.
Did SJ contacted them form the other world, could this has his fingerprints :D
 
The decision to buy the phone and the belief that it is 'obsolete' is their issue. Apple has nothing to do with it. They don't force anyone to buy every year. There is no kill switch that makes the phones suddenly not work so you have to upgrade. There is no one knocking on your door and dragging you out in the middle of the night to upgrade.

If someone's self image is so wrapped up on having the latest and greatest that isn't Apple's fault.

Again, off topic and nothing to do with the core of my main post's you have quoted in isolation, to suit your 'Strawman argument'.

Neither have I attributed blame to Apple either, only stated an observation in my post's to sales strategy.

So what is the point of your latest post?

How does it relate to my opinion that they may well possibly update iOS in future to allow use of an as yet unknown port, leading to the introduction of utility watch straps begin purchased in addition to whose already owned, within a short time period? :rolleyes:

You previously decided to post:

And yet they don't. Yes they make new models every year but they don't hold a gun to your head to buy it.

The use of "your" suggested (and continues to suggest) a direct reference to myself which was never projected in my original and subsequent posts.

Perhaps the fact that you stated your boyfriend is working for Apple is clouding your objectivity here? In any case, please stop the 'Strawman tactics', they don't work with me.

Have a nice day, as I find it difficult to share informative discussion with people blinded by a possible zealous misguided vested interest.

Yes.., I know, but it was my turn to be presumptuous..
 
OK, clearly everyone will have their own view on what constitutes "thin" in the context of a watch as it really is a personal preference thing. There is a trend in the watch market for chunkier, which has been going on for several years. There are also some very thin watches available - it's like bootcut vs straight leg jeans, dictated by preference and fashion.

I already have several "normal" watches which are just about the same size as the 42mm Apple Watch, and, in two cases, they are thicker than the Apple Watch.

I suspect that by "as thin as a normal watch" you really mean "as thin as other watches I like"?
I've worn many watches in my 46 years, from Swatches to my Citizen Eco-Drive. By no means am I a high-end watch owner, as others on this forum are (and I applaud their choices), and when I tried this one on, here are my thoughts:

1. This is the most important thing for a watch to do: It feels good on my wrist. I tried on the 42mm one, and the only complaint I had was with the store guy wanting to help me with it. He's not coming home with me, and I need to know how easy getting the band on is.

2. Apple needs to get rid of the demo mode on the store watches when you have an appointment. It's disconcerting to have a watch that is upside down on my wrist. It was opening day for watch try-ons, so I'll cut them some slack, but it would be nice (but a security nightmare) to have it pair to my phone, and I could use it like it was mine. It could be done in 15 minutes, and going over my security concerns, 2 of those 15 minutes could be spent selling that when I take it off (the watch, kids), you can't use Apple Pay with it without logging the watch back in.

3. They need to address the technical specs for those that like that kind of thing. I know Apple is making this a fashion accessory, but I'm not dropping $450 - $800 on a pretty bracelet. I do that for Mrs. thequick, but I need more functionality. I'm a guy. I know if I like how something looks in about 3.2 seconds, and I'll spend the following 14:56.8 figuring out if it's useful.

About the mystery port: If it's a diagnostic port, and they can't connect to the watch wirelessly, which I hope that the engineers at Apple put as a top priority (wireless connectivity), then the watch that can't be diagnosed will be replaced under warranty, and they can send it back to Apple for diagnostics.

There is a great mistake in thinking that wired equates to "reliable". A good example is a mouse or keyboard. The wire is just a transmission medium that can be used for power and communication, but what happens to those signals is pretty complex. You press on a key, and it closes a contact for a switch, which the chip in the keyboard converts to serial communication code, and transmits it to your computer (the wire or wirelessly), and the computer decodes this transmission to data that it can use. The reliability questions comes into play when it comes time to replace the batteries in the wireless devices. People equate that to being "unreliable," where, if you had a regular battery change out schedule, most people wouldn't recognize the difference between wireless and wired.

(just for the record, I have a wired keyboard, and wireless mouse and trackpad)

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This may have been covered already but how are we going to do software updates on the watch?

I think it will be wirelessly, like on the iPhone. This 8.3 update made me reflect on how long it's been since I hooked up my phone to the computer to do the update...
 
How does it relate to my opinion that they may well possibly update iOS in future to allow use of an as yet unknown port, leading to the introduction of utility watch straps begin purchased in addition to whose already owned, within a short time period? :rolleyes:

Not what my comment was in response to. Which is why i didn't quote that part of your post.

You commented essentially that folks do anything and everything in order to update their stuff every year. I quoted that comment. I replied to that comment.
 
Once the low level code is mature, then there's no need for a wired connection.

The Moto 360, for instance, has no physical connectors. Even debugging is done over a Bluetooth connection.

For that matter, when was the last time that we plugged in our iPhone or iPad to get a software update. Years.

I disagree with the need for a physical connection to overwrite low level coding. If I were to engineer this, here is the block diagram:

Low level code -> memory buffer area -> low level code programming routine

The sequence would be to load the low level code to the watch, enter a diagnostic mode, and then execute the code to put that low level code onto the area of PROM that would be responsible for that part of the watch's functionality.

Having stipulated that, getting the low level code would not require a specialized port, or even a physical connection. They already have wireless capability built in, so the physical port isn't needed. If the wireless doesn't work on the watch, well, it may be time for a new watch, which is a different problem.

I just put this out there as an alternative (not saying anyone is right or wrong, just a different perspective from an engineer) to the port being needed to do the low level upgrade/fix that has been postulated.
 
Did SJ contacted them form the other world, could this has his fingerprints :D

If Jobs is helping from the other side, I hope it's on the rumored iCar instead of this thing.

As much as we are trying to imagine incredible utility in this little jack, keep in mind that :apple:TVs (designed from when Jobs wasn't on the other side) have a miniature USB port on them. For years now it's done nothing but be used for diagnostic/firmware purposes. Even the jailbreakers can't get anything more out of it. If I was betting, I'd bet this watch port is much more a variation of that than some, future make-it-a-lot-better port with attachments and/or smart bracelets.

Again, this is Apple. How they make hardware a lot better is release a whole new version that pretty much mandates (or close to it) that just about every owner upgrades.
 
What if the device needs diagnostics / update due to a failure to power up, battery issue, or WIFI / Bluetooth failure? Apple will at least need to prove 100% that you broke it in order to deny you a warranty repair… ;)

Then surely a physical connection is required?

FYIO - I always physically plug my devices in for updates and back-up.

Regarding the iPhones / iPads, the point is that you can for pretty much the same reasons I have mentioned. I have an old iPod Photo which only works whilst connected to a power source as the battery died many years ago. I can still manage the device through a physical connection.

If a device won't power up, no amount of plugging in will yield any information which will prove what caused the failure.

We are in 2015. There is no benefit to backing up via cable, or plugging in for updates.

Apple's service policy for this will be the same as other devices which can't be actively opened/repaired. Can it be fixed with software? Yes? Good. No? Swap it. It's a pretty simple concept, that works for many products. A bluetooth failure on the watch would be no different to having a lightning port failure on the iPhone (which is probably a more common failure point).

The watch doesn't *need* a connection, other than to recharge.
 
We are in 2015. There is no benefit to backing up via cable, or plugging in for updates.

Plugging in for updates being non beneficial perhaps, but backups are essential to me via direct connection to my Mac. This is especially important when one has limited cloud storage backup, doesn't necessarily trust backing up all their important files to the cloud, and most of all it's much faster to fully restore my iPhone and iPad from direct cable connection vs. over OTA.
 
Plugging in for updates being non beneficial perhaps, but backups are essential to me via direct connection to my Mac. This is especially important when one has limited cloud storage backup, doesn't necessarily trust backing up all their important files to the cloud, and most of all it's much faster to fully restore my iPhone and iPad from direct cable connection vs. over OTA.

You can backup your iPhone to your computer over WiFi.
 
You can see the port and cover could not be watertight if immersed or subject to heavy rain so is useless for normal use let alone sports. It really is a toy.

3GS was in fact the 4th iPhone model but a very significant improvement over the iPhone 3 to warrant calling 4th generation.

The port could be very well water tight, just because the contacts are exposed doesn't mean water can get around them, just look at the contacts on a mag safe connector. Also the 3Gs was the third generation Iphone. There was Iphone, iPhone 3g, then Iphone 3GS. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone
 
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If Jobs is helping from the other side, I hope it's on the rumored iCar instead of this thing.

As much as we are trying to imagine incredible utility in this little jack, keep in mind that :apple:TVs (designed from when Jobs wasn't on the other side) have a miniature USB port on them. For years now it's done nothing but be used for diagnostic/firmware purposes. Even the jailbreakers can't get anything more out of it. If I was betting, I'd bet this watch port is much more a variation of that than some, future make-it-a-lot-better port with attachments and/or smart bracelets.

Again, this is Apple. How they make hardware a lot better is release a whole new version that pretty much mandates (or close to it) that just about every owner upgrades.
What are you talking about, jailbreaks used the port on the Apple TV 1 and 2 in order to jailbreak the device and on the 1 has opened the USB port to do anything.

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You can see the port and cover could not be watertight if immersed or subject to heavy rain so is useless for normal use let alone sports. It really is a toy.

3GS was in fact the 4th iPhone model but a very significant improvement over the iPhone 3 to warrant calling 4th generation.

3GS was third, this is coming from someone who has had every iPhone.
 
Once the low level code is mature, then there's no need for a wired connection.

The Moto 360, for instance, has no physical connectors. Even debugging is done over a Bluetooth connection.

For that matter, when was the last time that we plugged in our iPhone or iPad to get a software update. Years.

Yes true. But the Apple watch low level code is far from mature. This port provides them access to every level of the hardware for testing, optimization and evaluation purposes. As an example, having access to the low level realm will enable Apple to conserve every ounce of juice from the battery.

iPhone and iPad chipsets are very mature and increments are tightly controlled. This is Rev 1 for the S1 micro and peripheral chipsets.

Moto 360 is probably using an off the shelf micro where optimization at that level is reliant on other manufacturers. Therefore low level information on the performance of the ASIC is less useful to them. This is just another benefit Apple has by having control of everything aspect of the product.
 
What are you talking about, jailbreaks used the port on the Apple TV 1 and 2 in order to jailbreak the device and on the 1 has opened the USB port to do anything.

Yes, I'm talking gen 2 and 3 being able to do anything with THE PORT beyond Apple's use for it (restore). People are imagining future smart bracelets hooking into that port to expand utility and I'm saying unlikely.
 
If a device won't power up, no amount of plugging in will yield any information which will prove what caused the failure.

We are in 2015. There is no benefit to backing up via cable, or plugging in for updates.

Apple's service policy for this will be the same as other devices which can't be actively opened/repaired. Can it be fixed with software? Yes? Good. No? Swap it. It's a pretty simple concept, that works for many products. A bluetooth failure on the watch would be no different to having a lightning port failure on the iPhone (which is probably a more common failure point).

The watch doesn't *need* a connection, other than to recharge.

Oh, right... There is no possible way this could be useful... No way (sic)

That port can possibly give access to very low level functions, because the wireless drivers aren't even loaded (or you can't trust them, you because the system is unreliable). Running diagnostic on components without an OS actually running, or even all or parts of the components even running, is important.

Maybe they have a independent processor in there (with the proper firmware) that allows to diagnose the screen, the SOC, network, sensors, the battery with no OS running at all (or even power coming from the battery, power coming from the port).

That processor (and some permanent memory) could be a black box for error message from the rest of the components. The way to diagnose thing is to connect the port, download the messages, run diagnostics from that chip of other components (which may have their own similar monitors in the case of large systems).

Highly serviceable industrial systems have these kinds of monitors. Not sure if other Apple products have this; but I see no reason why not. Not having to open the watch to find out what is most likely wrong with it, is pretty interesting.

Of course, the port could have many other future functions.
 
Oh, right... There is no possible way this could be useful... No way (sic)

That port can possibly give access to very low level functions, because the wireless drivers aren't even loaded (or you can't trust them, you because the system is unreliable). Running diagnostic on components without an OS actually running, or even all or parts of the components even running, is important.

Maybe they have a independent processor in there (with the proper firmware) that allows to diagnose the screen, the SOC, network, sensors, the battery with no OS running at all (or even power coming from the battery, power coming from the port).

That processor (and some permanent memory) could be a black box for error message from the rest of the components. The way to diagnose thing is to connect the port, download the messages, run diagnostics from that chip of other components (which may have their own similar monitors in the case of large systems).

Highly serviceable industrial systems have these kinds of monitors. Not sure if other Apple products have this; but I see no reason why not. Not having to open the watch to find out what is most likely wrong with it, is pretty interesting.

Of course, the port could have many other future functions.

Highly serviceable industrial systems? This is a watch made by Apple.

What device has Apple ever provided nice, low level, diagnostic information for? If the watch breaks, they're just going to replace it.
 
They will be as useful as those old USB ports that were on Apple TVs.

Hope I'm wrong.
You should absolutely believe you are right. What will be interesting is the folks who reverse-engineer the protocol on the port and see the file system on the watch.

Besides, would you rather install an OS on 100,000,000 watches by wire or bluetooth or wireless? Is it USB or Ethernet or Thunderbolt format? I bet USB3 to head off EU regs!
 
I think that this port is for diagnostics, and is how the in store "try the software" watch/iPads stations know what you're looking at in the watch. And for charging. The iPad displays info based on what you've selected on the watch in real time. I really hope this remains on the production watches, and opens the possibility of having some really cool connected feature bands.

Wrong, Watch communicates to iPad via bluetooth, no physical connection between the two.
 
I could just be dumb but could the port just be for the initial software/firmware loading in the manufacturing process?

Maybe. I was also thinking that it might be necessary to install the NFC Secure Element apps and access codes, which is done individually via outside machines on the current iPhone assembly line.

OTOH, remember that the Watch uses a System in Package design, where its entire guts are already in one independent module. Which means they could do all the necessary setup directly with each S1 _before_ it's even installed in a watch case.

Who knows. Let's just hope someone can figure out where the pins go and how to use them. I'm really hoping that one is a power input so we could have extended life battery wrist straps. That would be so useful on long hikes (or long work/play days!).
 
That's only for the hands on demos. the ones in the case and the ones for try on could be totally the same as the retail units

You are correct, these are completely different then the retail production units, even the hardware is different. The Edition models in the tables aren't even real gold, they are gold plated.
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Even my boyfriend's mid sized store has like 50 watches between the case, 4 sets of try ons and 3 try on cases. times that by like 260 stores just in the US. You really think they had that many prototypes

Yes they actually are, they are specific models that are not retail production models, which is why we are not allowed to use sellable stock to replace try on or display models. They are specific models with different hardware then the retail units.
 
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