Can you post a high frame rate video of scrolling on Facebook? That seems to be the point of contention. Please use the touchpad for scrolling if you do.
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It's already being exchanged due to cosmetic defect.
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Retina MacBook Pro: no sign of a scroll lag
- Thread starter Nostromo
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Can you post a high frame rate video of scrolling on Facebook? That seems to be the point of contention. Please use the touchpad for scrolling if you do.
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It's already being exchanged due to cosmetic defect.
Like the other user said, can I we have a video?
So far, there has only been one video posted on this thread, and it shows lag on the rMBP.
Anand's review also states there is lag.
Currently, there is absolutely no evidence that it is smooth, so we need videos.
There, is, however, evidence it lags, so for now, the conclusion (logically) must be that it does lag.
Sorry, but just word of mouth cannot beat physical evidence, especially when there is a more reputable "word of mouth" (Anand) going against what you guys are saying.
Bottom Line: Without videos, we can safely assume it does lag, based on the facts available to us it is the most reasonable conclusion.
Simply not right to deny other's experiences
Your own experience is obviously completely valid and people can't be in a position to deny what you have seen, but time would be better spent to understand why their experiences were different from yours.
On the other you have no right to deny other's experiences. I can categorically say there is no lag of the rMBPs that I have been testing. I put them into 1920 x 1200 equivalent resolution in the Mac store (UK) for well over an hour and there was no sign at all of any lag. Indeed it was faster and smoother than a non retina macbook pro near to the machines. This was in Safari, on many different image and animation heavy websites including Facebook. It was also between applications, launch centre etc., general OS UI. All completely impressively smooth. EXACTLY like a number of others are starting to report. All of course running lion not ML, being in a Mac store.
The big question is why is there a problem with some and not others. It all points towards software in my opinion, like you said. Thanks by the way for posting those Chrome settings, very helpful for many I am sure.
For those out there still concerned that this lagging issue might be a deal breaker, my advice is not to be. It clearly is not being seen on many machines, so is not a universal hardware problem.
Your own experience is obviously completely valid and people can't be in a position to deny what you have seen, but time would be better spent to understand why their experiences were different from yours.
On the other you have no right to deny other's experiences. I can categorically say there is no lag of the rMBPs that I have been testing. I put them into 1920 x 1200 equivalent resolution in the Mac store (UK) for well over an hour and there was no sign at all of any lag. Indeed it was faster and smoother than a non retina macbook pro near to the machines. This was in Safari, on many different image and animation heavy websites including Facebook. It was also between applications, launch centre etc., general OS UI. All completely impressively smooth. EXACTLY like a number of others are starting to report. All of course running lion not ML, being in a Mac store.
The big question is why is there a problem with some and not others. It all points towards software in my opinion, like you said. Thanks by the way for posting those Chrome settings, very helpful for many I am sure.
For those out there still concerned that this lagging issue might be a deal breaker, my advice is not to be. It clearly is not being seen on many machines, so is not a universal hardware problem.
I have to respectfully call into question your experience. Perhaps if you had the opportunity to OWN THE MACHINE I might understand your perspective. But as of right now most claiming that there is no stutter are prefacing their comments with; "I went to the Apple store", while most who claim there is a stutter actually own an rMBP.
If anyone owns an rMBP that is functioning flawlessly, by all means post a video of it and give those of us with the issue a reason to believe our issue will be solved shortly.
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For those of you who have rMBP, please participate in the following poll regarding the lag in the new rMBP.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1393167/
Thanks.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1393167/
Thanks.
I'm no expert on the matter, but it doesn't seem likely that it would be a hardware issue. The 27 inch iMac, and the 30 inch cinema display before that, have been pushing almost as many pixels for a number of years.
Also, even the iPad with its mobile GPU and CPU are able to drive a buttery smooth (albeit slightly smaller) retina display experience.
The non-native resolutions may represent a bit more of a problem, but as far as an unscaled UI, I would think any issues being experienced are more than likely due to unoptimized software.
I remember when they first introduced momentum scrolling with the trackpad on my previous 2008 MacBook Pro. The first version of it was incredibly choppy, but after a few updates, it ran fine even on that older hardware.
Read Anand's review. It talks about how the rMBP does some weird scaling up and scaling down, which involve CPU usage. Whereas the iMac's are using native resolution, rMBP's are scaled so that it's optimal for reading on 15" screen. Because if you were to have the desktop at true 2880x1800, you're going to have a devil of a time trying to read anything on the screen. I think I've read somewhere that if you use a program to force 2880x1800 resolution, that you don't get the same problem.
So although it's not entirely a hardware problem, it may be a design flaw inherent in having Ivy Bridge CPU actively scaling up/down the resolution when it isn't able to do so smoothly. I'm actually just paraphrasing Anand so it may be better for you to read his review (I might have misread, ya know).
Fair point
That is a fair point, and chivalrously put. On the plus side, there was no lagging on the machines I saw for at least an hour, so that is something to report. Are you owners seeing the lag consistently, or intermittently. Mine is on order, so I look forward to posting back with video when it arrives.....and hopefully not eating my words.
That is a fair point, and chivalrously put. On the plus side, there was no lagging on the machines I saw for at least an hour, so that is something to report. Are you owners seeing the lag consistently, or intermittently. Mine is on order, so I look forward to posting back with video when it arrives.....and hopefully not eating my words.
So far, the poll is 23 without lag issues, and 5 with lag issues.
Which means it's very likely a software issue that got fixed.
Very likely, the patch has been applied to the rMBPs at the Apple store.
The best for those who experience issues is to return their MacBook Pro to have it checked out, or update the software.
Except for trolls who don't own a retina MacBook Pro: you go to a message board and post like crazy in a fake, stilted language that also shows up in Nigerian scam letters. Whatever floats your boat.
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Well, I would vote except I fall somewhere in between. I would vote, yes, there is scroll lag, but no, it's not a huge issue.
I hate to be "that guy", but polls like that are useless to quantify anything, because they are subjective and not based on people performing the same tasks. If not all of the variables are equal, then these comparisons are meaningless.
In comparison to the 2012 cMBP there is definitely lag on the rMBP. Whether you perceive that lag or not is up to the individual and what they are doing. Some people don't mind playing video games at 20 or 30 FPS and say it's fine. Some people only want to play at 60 FPS. This is why we have the long threads about whether such and such computer can play such and such game.
This is basically the same thing. Does your computer lag is a very open ended and subjective question. The different answers you will get are incomparable.
Can a software update alleviate this somewhat? Yes, up to a point. Currently not all of the UI rendering stuff is being done by the GPU and future updates should hopefully address this.
I should receive my rMBP next week and will create some objective and repeatable tests and also record the results. I've played around with one for an hour at the Apple store and I can see why some people say it does not "lag" and some people say it does.
In the mean time you should all read Anand's review and especially the bit about retina display performance. Here is a short excerpt:
In comparison to the 2012 cMBP there is definitely lag on the rMBP. Whether you perceive that lag or not is up to the individual and what they are doing. Some people don't mind playing video games at 20 or 30 FPS and say it's fine. Some people only want to play at 60 FPS. This is why we have the long threads about whether such and such computer can play such and such game.
This is basically the same thing. Does your computer lag is a very open ended and subjective question. The different answers you will get are incomparable.
Can a software update alleviate this somewhat? Yes, up to a point. Currently not all of the UI rendering stuff is being done by the GPU and future updates should hopefully address this.
I should receive my rMBP next week and will create some objective and repeatable tests and also record the results. I've played around with one for an hour at the Apple store and I can see why some people say it does not "lag" and some people say it does.
In the mean time you should all read Anand's review and especially the bit about retina display performance. Here is a short excerpt:
Anandtech.com said:
Your screenshot is very telling. 'I'm an immature troll who's going to insult everyone and tell them they're lying. Oh, and I'm also going to DOWNVOTE you! Take that!'
Let me tell you something, newly minted member. Downvoting is for *******. Go ahead, push the down arrow. I've already put in a downvote for myself. Let's see what that proves.
Also, please explain 'everyone who owns one'. Are you saying that you are everyone? 'Everyone' begs to differ.
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I don't live or work in an Apple Store. Consequently, whatever is happening to the software on the Macs in the Apple Store has little to no effect on my Mac. If this is a non-issue just waiting for a wider release of a fix, GREAT, I look forward to receiving my flawless replacement Mac due sometime during the second week of July. If that one is indeed working as advertised("the best computer [Apple's] ever made."), then I will HAPPILY report that all is indeed well and good in the world.
All of this bickering over nothing aside, I really admire this computer. I haven't used OSX in a few years and it's a pleasure to see how the OS has been refined. I admire Apple and draw inspiration from their design choices in most of my own work. I always find it interesting how their conceptual approach to design saturates the thinking of many of their developers, placing a strong focus on elegance and simplicity that is deceptive in it's power. Anything that makes something easier is powerful, I think it's important to remember that. A lever or a pulley come to mind. A simple tool to make a person stronger than their surroundings. Thats what Mac evokes in me and thats why I'm passionate about it being right.
Your screenshot is very telling. 'I'm an immature troll who's going to insult everyone and tell them they're lying. Oh, and I'm also going to DOWNVOTE you! Take that!'
Let me tell you something, newly minted member. Downvoting is for *******. Go ahead, push the down arrow. I've already put in a downvote for myself. Let's see what that proves.
Also, please explain 'everyone who owns one'. Are you saying that you are everyone? 'Everyone' begs to differ.
We have a user here who has shown video proof of a stuttering GUI animation. When I see video proof of flawlessly smooth GUI animations on a rMBP I will retract my comments and apologize to the liars. Somehow I suspect that proof won't be forthcoming anytime soon.
And I down-voted those comments because I don't believe them and I find lies offensive. Why else would you down-vote a comment?
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I see you've chosen to ignore my post- thanks a lot for proving my point
Maybe you spoke too soon?
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Yeah, Facebook runs like a dog on my Mac Pro, so why shouldn't it run like that piece of manure it is on every other device?
iPad? Pure, unadultered poo with bits from last nights chipotle. iPhone? Only special places in hell are reserved for those programmers who coded that.
But it just shows the problem with javascript and why the new engine in Safari (Mountain Lion) is going to solve some of it.
But yeah, at 3360 x 2100 (scaled 1680 x 1050) and up I can understand why the Retina MacBook Pro can have trouble rendering it smoothly.
It just shows you this is the first iteration and we can expect things to get much better with Haswell and forward.
iPad? Pure, unadultered poo with bits from last nights chipotle. iPhone? Only special places in hell are reserved for those programmers who coded that.
But it just shows the problem with javascript and why the new engine in Safari (Mountain Lion) is going to solve some of it.
But yeah, at 3360 x 2100 (scaled 1680 x 1050) and up I can understand why the Retina MacBook Pro can have trouble rendering it smoothly.
It just shows you this is the first iteration and we can expect things to get much better with Haswell and forward.
I'll take a video for you. What exactly do you want to be shown?
I do see some lag on Facebook though, and that is the only website so far where there is noticeable stuttering. But then again that crappily-coded website lags on my iMac and Alienware too so it's not an issue that's specific to the rMBP.
The voting system is dumb and ineffective. Furthermore, your logic is flawed: since my computer is smooth and lag-free apart from Facebook, does that mean you're lying? No. It just means that different people are having different experiences. Not everything is black and white.
Maybe you spoke too soon?
Perhaps I did. My sincerest apologies
If you can show the Apple Store front page shown by the other enterprising forum member in addition to Facebook, that would be fine I think.
It's true that my logic would be flawed in an ideal world. I guess I don't have to point out that we don't live in an ideal world... So the only real logic is facts, and only one side has facts so far.
Show all the OSX UI eye-candy that you can!
Expose, Mission Control, fullscreen on different apps, workspace switching, minimizing, expanding, moar mission control! Dock-apps-magnifying. Stuff like that.
The simple stuff the air and the matte screens do so snappy and without trouble of any kind!