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Retina or 4K iMacs probable anytime soon?
- Thread starter Noctilux.95
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Plenty of software takes advantage of it, especially for content creation. It is really just videos and games that would not take advantage of the hardware.
Apple has been pixel doubling to achieve retina. Either they go 5120x2880, or they go 4K and make 1080p the "Best for display" and allow plenty of "Scaled" options. Anything else would seem too much of a compromise.
Something not existing on the market has not stopped Apple before (retina phones, retina laptops, etc.). So the current lack of a 5120x2880 screen or GPU support is not a barrier.
Large, high-resolution screens are appearing in all sectors, so I think this is finally the year we will see a retina iMac. But they will probably be top end models, with the current versions remaining to fill out the more affordable slots, much like the MBP.
Retina is technically Apple's very specific implementation of a high-res display.
Take for example their retina MacBooks. They sport a resolution of 2560x1600, yet still yield the same useable screen space as a typical 1280x800 macbook, just that everything appears clearer and brighter due to the display sporting more pixels.
Apple is able to do this because they write their own custom drivers and filters for their hardware to enable this retina display.
If you had a laptop using a normal 2560x1600 display, everything would just appear ridiculously small instead.
I recall reading somewhere that it may be possible to "fake" retina resolution on a 27" iMac by using a 4k resolution and using software drivers to do the rest. Can't recall the specifics though.
I don't think so. My 15" rMBP at 2880x1800 displays things at exactly the same dimensions and size as the cMBP's 1440x900 display, just that it's way sharper.
Considering 4K is 2160 lines or so, halving that with scaled resolutions would see a real estate reduction from 1440 to 1080, so a considerable reduction. To achieve the same doubling that the rMBPs and iOS devices have seen would require 2880 lines, far higher than 4K.
There are four options:
1. Scale a 4K monitor with two pixels into one, as done in the rMBP and iOS devices. This leaves an effective resolution of 1080, far lower than 1440
2. Scale a 4K monitor at an odd fraction, from 2160 to 1440 effective pixels. This can be less sharp than scaling by a factor of two. (personally, I can barely see any difference in sharpness between the various scaled resolutions of my rMBP)
3. Double the screen resolution to 2880 lines. Not practical in terms of current graphics card performance.
4. Something else Apple has up their sleeves.
1. I am pretty sure Hellhammer knows how Apple is "using" their retina displays
2. if you had a "normal" notebook with high res display (2560x1600 as you say) the OS would handle the scaling (win 8.1 does 125, 150 and 200% scaling)
3. I think what you mean with 4k display and using software for the rest is basicly what OS X and Windows do when you use scaled optiones. Rendering at quadrupled pixelcount (2x every direction) and the downsample to the displays native resolution. that's the way the scaled (1680x1050 and 1920x1200) resolutions on the retina macbooks work
1920x1080, when doubled in each direction, gives 3840x2160. So it's a perfect match. This is for the 21.5"
Meanwhile for the 27", you're right. Apple has to push it to 5120x2880 to get the same effect like the rMBPs.
Maybe Apple should just stick back to the 'retina' name, because 3840x2160 is essentially doubled from 1920x1080 in each direction, just like how 2880x1880 is doubled from 1440x900 in the rMBPs. By now, I think it's safe to assume that Apple will just double the pixels in each direction.
I meant compared to the current 27": 2560 x 1440 rez.
A "retina'd" 1920 x 1080 has less screen real-estate than the current "native" 2560 x 1440.
Ehhh...while the Retina MBP's were technically a "new case" they were essentially the same design as the previous only thinner. Take the 13" rMBP. The Haswell model released this past fall is actually 0.04" thinner than the original from fall 2012. Even the iMac design now is the same as the previous only thinner. I could see them releasing a 4K iMac and keeping the same case design with a few potential minor tweaks. Wouldn't be that unprecedented.
I don't think they'd hold off on a 4K iMac if they thought it would make them good margins simply to stick to their traditional 2.5-3 year design cycle on the iMac's body. A pixel doubled 24" 4K iMac with retina display in the $1,799 price range would sell like absolute hot cakes.
I'd say #4. I think Apple would have to create a compromise 24" iMac to have the cleanest "iMac with Retina display". At 24", they could get away with pixel doubling 1920x1080 to achieve 4K resolution. At 24", you get a good compromise product between the current gen 21.5" and 27" that has a screen big enough for content creation and small enough where screen real estate of 1920x1080 still makes sense.
This would create a PPI of ~182. At 2.5 feet away, I think they would be willing to label that as a "Retina display".
I think they will go with a 4k display, not retina. However the GPU will be made custom, like they did in the nMP. The thermal requirements of one firepro in the nMP is almost the same as for the iMac and that can easily handle a 4k display at 60 hz. The 27" ACD will then also be updated with a 4k display.
Retina is just a marketing name. It's a formula that combines pixel density of the display and distance to it. The 27" iMac would be (according to Apples definition) be Retina (according to Apple this is, when the human eye is no longer able to see individual pixels or something like this) at over 32 inches.
Imo I think they will either go 4K on both (21 and 27) model and offer different scaling options and maybe give the 27 a better display (higher gamut and stuff like that), thus making the 21 a pure consumer device and the 27 a device that could be used by professionals too.
The other option would be, that they wait another year for a possible 5120 x 2880 display
Please no
They either need to push it up so 2560x1440 is the "best for retina" at the very least or just wait until that's possible.
If they go with 1080p for "best for retina" and we have to scale up for more desktop space that wouldn't be good. Tried a 2012 and 2013 retina MBP and can't stand the performance issues in "scaled" mode, not to mention that the retina quality isn't as good in these resolutions either.
some guys getting crazy talking about a 4k imac and didnt think about the gpu power that is needed to drive this resolution properly.
especially when it comes to games. imagine a 28" 4K imac, playing games on 1080p cause the gpu cant handle the native 4k resolution. this will look really bad. even 4K gaming on a PC is just possible with a high specced gaming rig.
i dont think that there will be a sufficient (mobile) gpu that is powerful enough to provide a good overall experience. even if it does, then gaming might be a pain in the a**.
personally i think that the almost retina like 1440p resolution of the current imac is totally sufficient. 1880p will be ok too, but any more will be a lag of performance.
dont get me wrong... if there are non-mobile gpu iMac`s in future, then a 4k display iMac would be awesome!
especially when it comes to games. imagine a 28" 4K imac, playing games on 1080p cause the gpu cant handle the native 4k resolution. this will look really bad. even 4K gaming on a PC is just possible with a high specced gaming rig.
i dont think that there will be a sufficient (mobile) gpu that is powerful enough to provide a good overall experience. even if it does, then gaming might be a pain in the a**.
personally i think that the almost retina like 1440p resolution of the current imac is totally sufficient. 1880p will be ok too, but any more will be a lag of performance.
dont get me wrong... if there are non-mobile gpu iMac`s in future, then a 4k display iMac would be awesome!
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I think 5120x2880 is more than a year away.
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Apple has never made Macs to be "gaming" computers. They are primary aimed at average consumers and creative pros. If 4K resolution benefits the masses (and they can make good margins), they'll do it regardless of whether you can play Call of Duty at full native res IMO.
same discussion, different thread.
in fact... a machine that cost beyond 2k$ should be able handling gfx intensive applications like games.
the imac is NOT aimed at creative pros. the mac pro is.
the imac transforms to an allround computer. infact... the current imac can handle gaming in high definition pretty well. just because apple dont call the imac a "gaming Computer" doesnt mean that its not intended to run games.
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actually I think that 1080p games on a 4k display would probably look awesome (best for retina)
I don't think this is accurate. "Best for Retina" would simply mean the screen real estate is set to 1920x1080 despite the number of pixels available being 4x that for better detail.
Unless the game was written specifically for the HiDPI modes on Macs, I think it would look kind of crappy full screen at 1920x1080 on a 4K display.
thats what i said, isn`t it?
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i still dont.
even on my imac 27" 1080p games look just blurry and ******... imagine this on a 4k screen... horrible.
They look horrible because of the scaling. On a 4k screen, they would be pixel doubled, so they would actually look normal.
Yea, I mean PS3/4 games are played full screen on 4K displays without being 4K res. Before that, many PS3 games were 720p and looked fine on 1080p tv's. So something gamers will just have to live with I suppose.