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I don’t doubt that Apple wants to and will succeed with Maps. However, if India is going to be the next big market for Apple then they need to take actions that reflect that. So far it’s been just talk and Apple is considered by most people here to be a luxury brand.

Privacy is the main reason I buy Apple products besides the fact that they are nice to use and hold resale value well. Installing Google Maps on my iOS devices negates that. The poor software updates this year also negate that. While I will continue to use Apple products I have stopped recommending them to others as best in class till Apple gets things moving in the right direction.

I'm not sure what their schedule is for India, but since navigation/turn-by-turn was just added literally one year ago, they may still be a way off on further enhancements. I didn't check, but have any Apple Maps vehicles even been spotted in India yet? I don't think so.
 
As simple as I can put it: Once it's on for you, it should stay on for you.
This isn’t how development and deployment is done these days. Even sites like Facebook roll changes out to a percentage of users at a time based on a number of factors. Then, another set of criteria determines whether they leave those changes in or roll them back.

I’m not saying it’s right, I’m just saying I know why someone would see what has been described and why I’m not surprised to hear that it happened. I also wouldn’t be surprised that someone that lives in or is traveling through the test area would see the old maps. A bad map in, say Northern Mississippi is a non-issue for me, as I‘m nowhere near there. Someone who is there would likely want to see the most heavily vetted and verified routes, which would be on the older version of maps.
 
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This isn’t how development and deployment is done these days. Even sites like Facebook roll changes out to a percentage of users at a time based on a number of factors. Then, another set of criteria determines whether they leave those changes in or roll them back.

You made my point. Facebook rolls out changes on a per-user basis. Microsoft often rolls out changes on a per-company basis. You don't roll out changes on a per-access basis. The original commenter was complaining that he had new maps and they would come and go depending on, apparently, the IP address he was using.

You don't want a new feature or UI that randomly disappears and reappears when you hit F5, or disconnect from Wi-Fi, or access the site again after a few hours.

You upgrade based on criteria, and a random probability that increases with time. You roll back because you have identified an issue, but not on a purely random basis.
 
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You made my point. Facebook rolls out changes on a per-user basis. Microsoft often rolls out changes on a per-company basis. You don't roll out changes on a per-access basis. The original commenter was complaining that he had new maps and they would come and go depending on, apparently, the IP address he was using.

You don't want a new feature or UI that randomly disappears and reappears when you hit F5, or disconnect from Wi-Fi, or access the site again after a few hours.

You upgrade based on criteria, and a random probability that increases with time. You roll back because you have identified an issue, but not on a purely random basis.

The examples you gave (Microsoft, Facebook, etc.) do exactly that all of the time. Most of the changes though aren't as apparent as the visual change you are seeing with Maps. There are a ton of examples where Instagram in particular tried out features with limited users and then pulled them later before ether killing the "update" altogether or rolling out to all users at a later date to all users.

The only time we find out about them is when some very observant user notices the minute change and then sometimes (surprise, surprise) complains that they lost the feature as they thought it was a good idea. It happens ALL THE TIME.

The issue here is that this is a very public update and also this very article which we are commenting on incorrectly states that the new area was rolled out. I know they made a correction stating "some" users may not be seeing it, but the fact is that a very small percentage of people are actually seeing the update as has been the case with every other regional pre-release.

When Apple released the initial Northern CA update in the summer of 2018, it was during a beta period and only those on a specific developer beta got the update...yes, everyone on the update. Why they have decided to do it differently since the initial iOS12 beta release is unknown. Would it make sense to do the pre-release to all beta users so it is limited just to them and not everyone else? Maybe, but my guess is that they are doing it the way they are doing it (which is unknown to anyone on these forums) is to probably cover as many devices or software release as possible to make sure there are no issues once the layer is released.

Remember, it's not so much about POI's or building outlines, I think each pre-release is all about the anonymous traffic/routing data innovation they have added to confirm they're own road data that is part of the new Maps. Tracking route/road changes, road closures, etc.

They cannot possibly do an accurate regional test as they do not have access to that data due to privacy reasons (thank you, Apple), so they do a release to a variety of users across the entire country and pull the data they need from the smaller sample that is actually in the region being tested. This is probably done to tens of thousands of users, but some either do not use Maps and the data is still being sent since they didn't opt out of that tracking (most don't), some use Maps but are not aware enough to notice the detail changes in the graphics, and then there are the select few like us who are looking for every little change and see the difference immediately (or check 5 times a day to see if they have new Maps :p).

It doesn't matter if someone is in Denver and has them but won't use them or if that same person goes to the new region and loses it. That is just a coincidence IMHO. There was most likely a very large group of people that had it and lost it during the same period. Traveling from one area to another had absolutely nothing to do with "losing it"...and I think that ssame person can confirm that they have the new Maps on other devices still.
 
Sorry! I think I’m basically rewording everything MozMan68 just posted!
You made my point.
You quoted my point, but didn’t read it :)
another set of criteria determines whether they leave those changes in or roll them back.
changes can be rolled out AND rolled back, and the content you see is controlled by the developer on a device by device basis. Again, I understand why some would think that “when I get stuff, I should keep stuff”. That’s based on a history of how software development used to be done. However, the way development is done now, there are times when this won’t be the case.

You don't roll out changes on a per-access basis
I don’t think you understand how much control they have over the rollout process :) This is an EXTREMELY granular activity. If you want to read into it, check out some of the information at Akamai’s websites on how they’re able to control how changes gets rolled out. You’re rarely ever connecting directly to Facebook or Microsoft, you’re connecting to a sea of what’s called “edge servers” that control what everyone who connects to them will see. As a result, the developer has very fine grained control as to who sees what because every version of data they WANT to have available is available simultaneously.

You don't want a new feature or UI that randomly disappears and reappears when you hit F5
No one said randomly. Someone traveled to a location that has two versions of data available. It’s not inconceivable that someone IN an area would get the best version of the map data, not the pre-release data. That’s not random, that’s a fairly easy criteria to set up. And, really, wouldn’t you feel better knowing that the route you’re traveling is NOT based on pre-release data?
 
No one said randomly.

Yes they did! You missed the entire point of the whole argument. Go back and read it.

Original commenter: Apple Maps rollout is dumb because you get switched back and forth between new and and old maps depending on IP address. You are new one day, then you travel and change IP address, and all of a sudden you're back to the old one.

My argument: That is stupid, they should persist your rollout status on a per-user, i.e. Apple ID, or per-device, i.e. a cookie, basis whether you are old or new to avoid switching back and forth unless there is an intentional rollback. This is exactly how Google and Microsoft do it. There are software benefits too, avoiding interfaces between old and new data.

You quoted my point, but didn’t read it :)

That's apparent.

No one said randomly. Someone traveled to a location that has two versions of data available. It’s not inconceivable that someone IN an area would get the best version of the map data, not the pre-release data. That’s not random, that’s a fairly easy criteria to set up. And, really, wouldn’t you feel better knowing that the route you’re traveling is NOT based on pre-release data?

Fine, if you're in the area don't roll forward. But if somebody has already been rolled forward, keep them there.

Rolling back is disruptive to the user experience and should be minimized, i.e. the disruption of a technical fault exceeds the disruption of losing features. Rolling forward OR back introduces technical risk and should also be minimized.

If you don't trust your data, then why are you releasing it to begin with? That defeats the whole point of testing. I'm going to stick data where nobody sees it, so when we have GA, the nav will effectively be untested.

Which is, in some way, Apple's method with their secrecy.
 
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Yes they did!
Well, YOU did. I didn’t, though. :) The event as described and the results weren’t random. They likely aren’t understood well by folks that don’t know a lot about how these things happen, but absolutely not random.

My argument: That is stupid, they should persist your rollout status on a per-user
Like I said, I’m not saying it’s right or it’s wrong. Working in software development/deployment, though, that IS how it’s done. Don’t know what I can tell you beyond that.
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avoid switching back and forth unless intentional.
I think you’re missing the fact that it’s very likely that this NON random event IS intentional. It’s quite easily explained. Now, if this person... doing NO travel, is popping back and forth between versions? That’s cause for concern. Yet, again, it’s due to the way software is done now. And the way software is done means that circumstances exist where what you see for the UI can change without you taking any action.
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But if somebody has already been rolled forward, keep them there.
Unfortunately, you don’t get to define or determine that :) UNLESS you’re the Product Manager... and then you might not get to determine it if legal as defined a clause otherwise... or if the Test Manager says they REALLY need this test case. :)
 
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Like I said, I’m not saying it’s right or it’s wrong. Working in software development/deployment, though, that IS how it’s done. Don’t know what I can tell you beyond that.

And the whole argument against me that it shouldn't be done that way. The specific argument was there's some issue with map layers that prevents any sort of user-persistent rollout. Again, you failed to read the argument.

Next you'll say that taking features away from a user suddenly is poor UX.
 
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And the whole argument against me that it shouldn't be done that way. The specific argument was there's some issue with map layers that prevents any sort of user-persistent rollout. Again, you failed to read the argument.

Next you'll say that taking features away from a user suddenly is poor UX.

Please explain exactly what features/UX the person who lost this (for no more than 6 weeks max mind you) is losing?

You gave examples above, but none of which are affected by this Maps later change.

I still have ALL the iOS 13 features and capabilities in both new and old regions. Like I said above, I was traveling between both regularly.

We know he didn’t have unique features like Look Around or stop sign/traffic light features since those aren’t available widely in areas that have been out for a year now.

You could claim that people are missing out on better or updated roads, we know for a fact this isn’t the case in all areas.

I’m excited about being in the new area simply because I’m getting better feedback from Apple on POI changes. I believe that road changes will be implemented faster. I like seeing EVERY building and how Maps routes me to them. But at the end of the day, I’m still getting from point A to point B whether I’m in new or old maps. All my favorites and collections are still there.

At the end of the day, it’s a graphic change at this point as all the other features I mention above, while possibly implemented, will not see the effects of for a while as it is all based on multiple instances of data collection. Roads aren’t going to get changed from the limited use so far, but the data Apple continues to collect as Maps are fully released will make the changes more apparent as time goes on.
 
Can you try writing this again? This isn’t a complete sentence and I didn’t want to reply not understanding what you typed.

The whole argument was that it is not technically possible or desirable to persist migration state between new and old map data on a per-user or per-account basis.

Scroll up and search for "layers".
 
The whole argument was that it is not technically possible or desirable to persist migration state between new and old map data on a per-user or per-account basis.

Scroll up and search for "layers".

And now I think you need to clarify where anyone said it couldn’t be done that way or shouldn’t.

All the arguments against your statement was simply that they AREN’T doing it that way, that it is t uncommon for many companies to do it this way, and that Apple obviously has its own reasons for this which no one on here knows about or why.

We’ve been discussing this for more than a year on the dedicated Maps thread. There are many theories on this (discussed above as well) but no confirmation from anyone that actually knows why the pre-released layer is added and then taken away nor why or how certain users/devices are selected.
 
I guess I'm still really confused by what you are saying or want.

Street View is "Street View" and not used or accessible during navigation. How would you use it in a car? And if I'm going to 123 Main Street, why would I care if I'm passing 110, then 112, then 114 Main Street?? I'm just not sure how that would help you navigate in a city or anywhere else.

Or are you referring to when you actually arrive and you want to see the addresses on the map??

Again, new Maps not only takes you to where you want to go, but the pin is right on the address or building when you get there. There should be no confusion as to where you are going even after you arrive. Are you having a different experience in the new Maps area? Can you share pics of what you mean?

And I use Uber a lot when I travel and never noticed that on their Maps...but I may not have been looking too closely. And most drivers use other map programs (Apple, Waze or Google instead).

Forget Street View as I guess you missed the point.
So looking at Apple Maps you see your self at the center point on a street, now as you drive, bike or walk you see the cross streets go by. Now imagine you see a hovering balloon which has the buildings number as you pass by.
 
Forget Street View as I guess you missed the point.
So looking at Apple Maps you see your self at the center point on a street, now as you drive, bike or walk you see the cross streets go by. Now imagine you see a hovering balloon which has the buildings number as you pass by.

I guess so...you still haven’t mentioned the application/need for this.

Again, if I put in the address I’m going to, Maps takes me right there and places the marker right on the building as I arrive. Why would I even care what the addresses are for other buildings?
 
I guess so...you still haven’t mentioned the application/need for this.

Again, if I put in the address I’m going to, Maps takes me right there and places the marker right on the building as I arrive. Why would I even care what the addresses are for other buildings?

The lack of house numbers which can be clearly seen or missing altogether. You are assuming the pin you posted in maps is correct. It often is off by quite a lot in the city (at lease here where I live)
 
Google clearly listens to the feedback it gets. Apple clearly does not, since users cannot review Apple maps in the monopolistic App Store. I’m fairly certain that even with these improvements mentioned in the article, the Apple Maps app would have a low rating. There are some problems with Apple Maps that need to be remedied like 1. Apple Maps will state the destination when starting and that cannot be disabled, making it tough to surprise people with the destination 2. Siri does not state when it is rerouting, probably because it re-routes so often which is shady 3. Re-routing will always pick what it thinks is the faster route even if you only deviated slightly, so that forces users to have to drive in airplane mode to prevent changing the route entirely without the users consent
 
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