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applegeek25

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jun 6, 2010
113
2
Toronto, ON
I'm curious if anyone else here thinks that Apple has really screwed over those of us who purchased 2017 MBPs. I upgraded from a 2013 15" BTO MBP to a 2017 15" MBP last July and was lucky enough to not have to deal with the keyboard issue until March/April. My keyboard has already been swapped out once and now I've turned OCD about using the compressed air duster every night. I have a feeling that I might have to send it in for another replacement in the next couple of months though. Apple's solution has been to 1) replace with the same crappy keyboard for 4 years, 2) launch new MBPs with a supposedly better keyboard design, and 3) Offer 2017 refurbs with a new 1-yr warranty for $1909 USD.

After using Macs since my very first computer in 1995, I've been thinking about testing the waters elsewhere, but after seeing the refurb price and how little they're selling for on eBay (for example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-15-M...vip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l10137), it feels like it's not even worth it. $1499 for a used condition base 15-inch MBP WITH AppleCare+ included until 2020. Yes new models have been released, but you're still looking at a significant loss.

I've purchased AppleCare on every Mac I've owned with the exception of this 2017 model. I can't even imagine how much I'd get for it at this point. Is anyone else out there feeling the same frustration?
 

Polymorphic

macrumors regular
Dec 23, 2010
164
453
I took a $1,200 bath (more than 37%) on my 6 month-old flawless 2017 MBP 15” with AppleCare. After several weeks trying to sell the machine, it became clear I wasn’t going to get a better offer.

My conclusion was that this MBP generation isn’t inheriting the legendary resale value of its forebearers. Caveat emptor.
 

applegeek25

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jun 6, 2010
113
2
Toronto, ON
I took a $1,200 bath (more than 37%) on my 6 month-old flawless 2017 MBP 15” with AppleCare. After several weeks trying to sell the machine, it became clear I wasn’t going to get a better offer.

My conclusion was that this MBP generation isn’t inheriting the legendary resale value of its forebearers. Caveat emptor.

Now THAT'S an expensive bath.

I've never taken that much of a loss on a MBP as I would if I sold this one. In most cases it sounds like it would be cheaper to just keep the machine and buy a desktop from Lenovo or Dell as a backup to be used when you need to ship off your MBP for two weeks for another keyboard replacement. The loss is THAT substantial. Obviously this wouldn't work for most people except those that work from home. I've also noticed that 2015 MBPs are being sold for more than 2016/2017 models. Ridiculous.
 

magbarn

macrumors 68030
Oct 25, 2008
2,956
2,253
Now THAT'S an expensive bath.

I've never taken that much of a loss on a MBP as I would if I sold this one. In most cases it sounds like it would be cheaper to just keep the machine and buy a desktop from Lenovo or Dell as a backup to be used when you need to ship off your MBP for two weeks for another keyboard replacement. The loss is THAT substantial. Obviously this wouldn't work for most people except those that work from home. I've also noticed that 2015 MBPs are being sold for more than 2016/2017 models. Ridiculous.

Unfortunately the word is already out, despite cheerleaders here who still claim bad keys on the 2016-2017 are a "minor" problem, the word is already in the street to avoid the 2016-2017 MBP's. I frequent discount deals websites, and every time a 2017 MBP goes on sale, one of the first posts usually is this: "Isn't this one of the MacBooks with the crap keyboard that goes bad?"

My partner recently tried selling his 2017 after a recent keyboard failure. He's only got a few lowball offers for his otherwise perfect MBP (It just got a new top case and battery) with AppleCare +.
 

Sterkenburg

macrumors 6502a
Oct 27, 2016
555
551
Japan
Unfortunately, indeed, the keyboard issue is the root of the problem here. Yes, there is now a replacement program, but you'll still need to take your computer to Apple and be without it for several days only to get it repaired with the same flawed parts, and it's understandable that people are reluctant to pay a high price knowing that. Meanwhile, the 2015 is still selling for ridiculous prices (honestly excessive given the age of the hardware) because it's the most recent MBP on the secondhand market whose design isn't defective out of the box.

The 2018 is much more powerful and has the butterfly V3, while the 2015 is old but still soldiers on like a tank, and this sandwiches the 2016-2017s in a weird spot, greatly impacting their resale value.
 
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applegeek25

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jun 6, 2010
113
2
Toronto, ON
Unfortunately, indeed, the keyboard issue is the root of the problem here. Yes, there is now a replacement program, but you'll still need to take your computer to Apple and be without it for several days only to get it repaired with the same flawed parts, and it's understandable that people are reluctant to pay a high price knowing that. Meanwhile, the 2015 is still selling for ridiculous prices (honestly excessive given the age of the hardware) because it's the most recent MBP on the secondhand market whose design isn't defective out of the box.

The 2018 is much more powerful and has the butterfly V3, while the 2015 is old but still soldiers on like a tank, and this sandwiches the 2016-2017s in a weird spot, greatly impacting their resale value.

I'm definitely not blaming people for wanting to get a good deal on year old MBPs, but I do feel like Apple owes customers who purchased 2016/2017 models a path forward. Relying on v2 keyboard replacements for four years isn't a solution - it's a slap in the face.
[doublepost=1535270187][/doublepost]
My partner recently tried selling his 2017 after a recent keyboard failure. He's only got a few lowball offers for his otherwise perfect MBP (It just got a new top case and battery) with AppleCare +.

How low? I remember someone on here mentioning a 2017 15" that they were thinking about purchasing for $1200. You could probably sell a year old Dell XPS for more money than that.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,432
43,334
While I didn't purchase the 2017 model, I'm not embracing the line of thought. I really don't consider resale value, its a losing proposition no matter how you slice it, regardless of what model year you choose.

Its no secret that the 2016 and 2017 model years have keyboard issues, and that in of itself will drive down the demand and resale value. The same thing happened with the 2008 - 2011 MBPs with their assorted GPU problems.
 

KUKitch

macrumors 6502
Jan 10, 2008
450
288
England
Yeah - I sold my 2011 in 2016 for £400, I believe I paid $1,300 for it if I recall? I would not be surprised at all that values are low for the ‘17s considering how fresh the issues are... I would bet though that in a few years people won’t remember that so much and they’ll bounce back.

Fortunately for us all, we’ve got what, 4 years of coverage on the keyboard at least, whether AppleCare or not? It’s been a year so far and mine is still functioning fine (knock on wood), hopefully it won’t run into issues but time will tell ultimately I guess
 

buran-energia

macrumors 6502
Oct 9, 2017
296
113
I remember someone on here mentioning a 2017 15" that they were thinking about purchasing for $1200

They can sell it for $1 if they like. If you look at swappa, you won't find the price lower than 1500 in good condition.

The laptop that "was selling for 1200$" was a demo model. Imagine how many people have touched it over the year.
 
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Naimfan

Suspended
Jan 15, 2003
4,669
2,017
The same sort of thing happened in 2011, with the introduction of quad-core MBPs that replaced the dual-core 2010 models. And what did people expect? If Apple had released a 2018 15" MBP with quad core CPUs it would have been laughed out of the market, and it's already made misstep after misstep with the 2016/17/18.
 

Fishrrman

macrumors Penryn
Feb 20, 2009
28,309
12,433
OP wrote:
"but after seeing the refurb price and how little they're selling for on eBay (for example: [ebay link omitted], it feels like it's not even worth it. $1499 for a used condition base 15-inch MBP WITH AppleCare+ included until 2020. Yes new models have been released, but you're still looking at a significant loss."

Well, that's what happens with something that has "inherent design problems", as do all MacBook Pro's since the 2016's.

The resale price drops because few folks want to assume ownership of a potentially-defective machine.

I'm aware of the "4-year-replacement" program for the keyboards, but I'm wondering how a "second owner" in a "private party sale" would present this to an Apple Store for "warranty" replacement?
How will Apple ascertain the "date first purchased/registered for use?"

Personal aside:
I don't buy the "loaded up, expensive" versions of MacBook Pros.
Not that I can't afford them -- but not worth putting much $$$$ into, in my opinion.
From what I've read, the "mostly-basic versions" actually seem to last the longest, for some reason.
My 2010 MBPro still looks like new and runs better than new (swapped HHD for SSD).
I replaced it in late 2016 with the 2015-design MBPro, and that has proved to be the most-presceint buying decision I've ever made!
 

IngerMan

macrumors 68020
Feb 21, 2011
2,005
902
Michigan
I wonder if you buy a 2016/2017 from the refurbished store, will that give you 4 year replacement on the KB?

I went on the Apple site and answered my own question, it does have the same warranty and repair program as buying new. So yes.

Given that I think someone in the market for a 15” and not a professional user like myself, so 6 cores really won’t matter, could find a decent 2017 machine for a good price. When the 2018 hit the refurbished store in a few months the 2017 should even be better.
 
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iMacDragon

macrumors 68020
Oct 18, 2008
2,354
701
UK
I'm aware of the "4-year-replacement" program for the keyboards, but I'm wondering how a "second owner" in a "private party sale" would present this to an Apple Store for "warranty" replacement?
How will Apple ascertain the "date first purchased/registered for use?"!

If the serial checker shows it as confirmed date of purchase, then there's no problem with warranty service, whoever has the laptop in posession.
 

Fishrrman

macrumors Penryn
Feb 20, 2009
28,309
12,433
Dragon wrote:
"If the serial checker shows it as confirmed date of purchase, then there's no problem with warranty service, whoever has the laptop in posession."

Yes, that makes sense.

But I'm waiting to see the first report from a "second owner" who has had a free keyboard replacement under Apple's extended warranty program.

Is there anyone reading this who qualifies?
 

Wags

macrumors 68020
Mar 5, 2006
2,157
1,639
Nebraska, USA
Dragon wrote:
"If the serial checker shows it as confirmed date of purchase, then there's no problem with warranty service, whoever has the laptop in posession."

Yes, that makes sense.

But I'm waiting to see the first report from a "second owner" who has had a free keyboard replacement under Apple's extended warranty program.

Is there anyone reading this who qualifies?
Don’t think matters who owns the machine just if within the 4 years. Just like AppleCare stays on the machine not with the original purchase.
 

anthony13

macrumors 65816
Jul 1, 2012
1,008
1,094
I have a 2017 (for just over a year) and haven’t had any keyboard issues yet. I briefly contemplated upgrading to a 2018 and then realized I really dont need the performance boost badly enough to justify the cost. That said i have nothing to complain about considering I’m one of the lucky ones who got a brand new MacBook Pro as a replacement when i went in to the Apple store to replace the aging battery on my 2012 rMBP.
 
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jeyf

macrumors 68020
Jan 20, 2009
2,173
1,044
I have a 2017 (... dont need the performance boost badly enough to justify the cost.
review your computing needs, consider buying an EARLY 2016 or older MB. Chances are your buying a less reliable unit that exceeds your needs anyways.

dosnt make sense to buy a premium product in a mature market with bad reviews. Than have to buy Apple Care.

I buy my own stuff, dont get it for free and like to think i have a limited budget. do what you want
 

anthony13

macrumors 65816
Jul 1, 2012
1,008
1,094
review your computing needs, consider buying an EARLY 2016 or older MB. Chances are your buying a less reliable unit that exceeds your needs anyways.

dosnt make sense to buy a premium product in a mature market with bad reviews. Than have to buy Apple Care.

I buy my own stuff, dont get it for free and like to think i have a limited budget. do what you want

I would actively benefit from a better GPU and a better processor. I’m a heavy vectoworks and ESP Vision user but that being said i can deal with longer render times and slower work space. The 2017 MBP is a great machine all said and done. The keyboard issue withstanding.
 

PBG4 Dude

macrumors 601
Jul 6, 2007
4,264
4,473
I'm aware of the "4-year-replacement" program for the keyboards, but I'm wondering how a "second owner" in a "private party sale" would present this to an Apple Store for "warranty" replacement?
How will Apple ascertain the "date first purchased/registered for use?"
When I sold my iPad with AC+, I conference called Apple support with the purchaser. Apple support had me do stuff to prove I was the original owner, then had me hang up so they could get purchaser’s personal info and transfer the remaining warranty coverage to them. It was a painless process that they had obviously done before.
 

Howard2k

macrumors 603
Mar 10, 2016
5,215
5,038
Couldn't the poor resale value be attributable to market saturation as well?


[sarcasm]Absolutely not. It's a scam from Apple all the way. Way to go Tim.[/sarcasm]


Seriously - quite possibly the most ridiculous thread I've seen recently.

More seriously - I except that Apple will come out with a MacBook subscription program at some point, so you pay $x every year and every year they take your old MBPro and replace it with a newer one.
 
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