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except that ios has hardly changed since its first release, and android already holds a bigger share of the smartphone market.

It's changed tons - maybe not in looks, appearance or basic operation, but they have added tons of new features and hardware over the years. I wouldn't want it to change every gen or so; one of the beauties of it is that I can (and have) upgrade to a new phone, and I don't have to relearn how to use it every time. Also, it seems to work pretty well, so it can follow the "if it ain't broke..." motto.

Keep in mind, Android developed much of its market share because many of it's manufacturers offer phones of such low quality they could be had for free with a contract. From the release date. Something iPhone users could not do until very recently and only with older, (not deliberately made low-end) models. Until recently, if you wanted an iPhone of some kind, you had to pay for it. Same-same now, if you want the latest/biggest version of the device. And yet we still do. In numbers that may not equal the Android platform, but are pretty damn impressive, none the less.
 
Now of Apple could follow suit

It's put up or shut up time for Apple. Create the world's most advanced mobile OS, just don't say you did.

RIM just massively one-upped iOS today, even if the platform doesn't survive a company worth 61 times less then Apple just out Appled Apple. Better keyboard, better camera, better multi-tasking and arguably better design cues then the iPhone.

Basically Apple is now in the state RIM was 4 years ago and making the same mistakes. RIM had almost 50% WORLD market share in 2008 but choose to be arrogant, ignored consumer trends, and stopped investing money into their platform, and nearly died because of it. RIM went from nearly $150 a share to $5 and 1% market share in only 4 years.

Apple likes to say a lot of things, but they need to start showing they are capable of what they claim.

Regardless of what you think about the new BB 10 platform, what RIM accomplished after a few short highly-focused years simply puts Apple to shame.
 
i don't think so. At the very worst, this is just enough to keep blackberry moving along for another several years if not a decade, an also-ran wth a niche market, giving them a chance to try again with something else later on. In which case this has done its job: The company isn't going to die.

optimistically, this is just a starter version of things to come, and they will regain significant marketshare through constant improvement and innovation. If you remember, ios 1.0 wasn't much to sneeze at, either. Try cutting and pasting text on ios 1.0. Or taking video. Or tweeting.

realistically, i think this is a very good re-launch, and blackberry will be a strong third horse in the smartphone race. Maybe not a dominant player, but a platform with a strong enough base of users that will sustain it quite well.

Bb10 definitely still has some drawbacks, like the outmoded way of thinking about security that i mentioned earlier on. But they've caught up where it counts, and to retain their loyal base of users, this will do.

Quite frankly, i'm getting tired of the mentality people have about new and existing mobile platforms. "waa waa, ios hasn't innovated enough. Waa waaaa, blackberry is only playing catch up. Waaa waaaa, if company x doesn't innovate in some totally unrealistic way that i won't describe because i don't know what i want, then they'll just go bankrupt and everyone will buy y device instead. Because if i say 'innovation' enough times, i'll convince myself that i know what it really means."

sorry, that's not the way reality works. People might think they want to be wowed year after year, but hopping from device to device doesn't work in the long run for people who actually use their devices for real things. Having to switch platforms, transfer data, relearn your workflow and figure out again how make your shiny new device useful to you really becomes a time waster when you have work to do. Those are the people who blackberry is catering to, and even to an extent apple.

And this is why both platforms are going to continually evolve for the foreseeable future, not radically change every six months just to appease a bunch of forum "experts," with nothing but a case of cell phone adhd and their keyboards to keep them company.

I don't know if I've agreed with any other post as fully as I agree with this one. Bravo.
 
You're right for the most part, but when Apple decided to enter the cell phone market they saw what wasn't being done or done well and they brought in a whole new design of a product to the industry. The BB10 doesn't address what's not right in the cell phone industry, they are just adding to the clutter. If they had something amazing (not really even a cell phone per say) they could be a game changer and people would open doors for them.

Now THAT's an interesting point...
 
well, they don't have apps like apple does, but I think it is more featured phone. I'll play around with it on Feb.5, see what all the fuss is about :D
You never know, I might just switch.
 
Can't see any reason why someone would actually choose to use a Blackberry over an iOS or Android device, without the keyboard. That was their competitive advantage. Good for them that they'll be doing a keyboard version though.

No, their integration into corporate networks and their email system was their advantage. It had little to do with the keyboard. Non-business and Non-IT people can only see what’s in front of them. :rolleyes:
 
Unfortunately, RIM (or should I say Blackberry) doesn't have the remaining resources to go head to head with Apple and Google and recapture a meaningful market share. This is especially unfortunate because there are a lot of things to like about the new BB OS. From a biased Apple fan's POV, I think the best possible outcome would be for Apple to buy out RIM, or at least its mobile business (and not necessarily its data centres/messaging services). There are some things in the BB OS that could address some of iOS's worst deficiencies. If, OTOH, it fell into Google's hands, there's enough IP between the two to significantly hinder the future development of iOS.
 
hope blackberry comes back. would be nice to have them back to compete agaianst iOS and android. more competition :D

plus would be nice to see a Canadian company on the top charts again

Don't see this happening at that price.

If they want to these phones in peoples hands, they need to lower the cost.

Need a reason to lock into a 2 year contract with an untested OS.
 
Uhh...so this is the phone that's supposed to resurrect Blackberry?

Methinksnot.
 
I can't help but root for the underdog, so go RIM!

I still personally wouldn't want to buy a BlackBerry, but perhaps they've done just enough to keep them in the game.

More competition = better.
 
except that ios has hardly changed since its first release, and android already holds a bigger share of the smartphone market.

Please stop talking, you're embarrassing yourself.

At release:

Could only run a single app at a time.
No App Store
No ability to download music/video/audiobooks from iTunes
No GPS functionality with maps at all
No push email
No WPA2
Most youtube videos wouldn't work
No cut copy paste
Single calendar support with no CalDav
Terrible exchange supoprt
no folders
couldn't take video
couldn't zoom camera
couldn't create/edit playlists
No voice recognition
no over the air updates
no wifi synching support
 
Research in Motion today announced its next-generation smartphone, the Z10. RIM also announced a corporate rebranding, officially changing the name of the company to BlackBerry. ...

The phrase "rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic" comes to mind here.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the Z10 and Q10 are the world's best-ever smartphones. Better than iPhone, Galaxy, the huge yellow Nokia thing, the HTC me-too. Well so what. Who would buy the Z10 and Q10? Corporate IT looking to replace their existing BlackBerrys? And exactly how many sales would that generate?

What's that? "There's always the consumer market," you say? Well I'd say "Not for RIM, er, BlackBerry-R-Us." A smartphone is only as good as its content + media + app infrastructure. And does RIM, er, BlackBerry-R-Us have anything remotely like Apple's iTunes infrastructure? You know, the infrastructure that made iPod, iPhone, and iPad so successful. Yeah, that one. The infrastructure that Apple has been relentlessly building since before the first iPod. Way back in 2001.

Short answer: no, RIM, er, BlackBerry-R-Us doesn't have all that.

Long answer: No, and they won't make even a small dent in the consumer market. And corporate IT is already moving away from BlackBerry. The old BB handset replacement rate won't be enough to sustain them.

Somebody call HP. Maybe they'll add BlackBerry-R-Us to their portfolio.
 
Memory card slot, removable battery, QWERTY models upcoming.

A vendor that remembers how to design REAL phones.
 
I must admit it's the first time I hear of RIM. I always thought the company was named Blackberry.
 
If they grab 3rd spot and keep a strong hold in the business sector, they might be well off.

To all the people that say its too late in the game, blablabla... would you have liked for Apple to just give up in the 90s?

Please no "it's not the same", "you don't know **** all" type of replies. I just don't care if I don't have all the precise details of Apple's 1990s.

And no, I'm not bb fanboy, just an objective Apple user (iPhone, iPad, Mac, TC, aTV!!!!)
 
two reviews from biased sites does not mean anything. Come back in 3 months and see what the sales figures have to say. if they can get their marketing right and convince business to buy blackberry again, then it could succeed.

I think however the rename to blackberry says a lot more. For me it means that they are dead as a hardware company, and that these devices are proof of concept. In the next 18 months blackberry will become a provider of an operating system. You could end seeing samsung blackberrys, or nokia blackberrys etc.

+1000
 
... If you remember, iOS 1.0 wasn't much to sneeze at, either. Try cutting and pasting text on iOS 1.0. Or taking video. Or tweeting. ...

iOS 1.0 didn't need tons of features. Because Apple had an open field. There were no other multi-touch smartphones at the time, the smartphone market was stagnant and still stuck in the previous century's chiclet-keyboard-and-stylus era.

If you remember, there were several successive iterations of the Treo that were essentially the same old thing in different-colored plastic. And there were several iterations of BlackBerry phones and Windows CE phones that were only cosmetically different from earlier models. This went on for years as RIM and Microsoft fought to a market share stalemate and Palm did everything in their power to destroy themselves except burning down their headquarters building.

That was then, this is now. The smartphone hardware, no matter how good it is, isn't enough. You need an infrastructure for that hardware to succeed. The hardware is just a window into the software infrastructure. It's just the box the software comes in.

Apple has built the world's best post-PC platform: iOS. Apple has built the world's best post-PC infrastructure: iTunes + iCloud. Android serves as the spoiler to absorb all other market share one way or another, so that few if any smaller / newer competitors can establish a foothold. Hardware fragmentation, software fragmentation, and umpteen non-Google-Play stores (more than 70 in China, for example) are a nightmare for any would-be smartphone newbie. And a nightmare for Google too, but that's a different thread.

Apple's success is the result of simplicity and focus. Android's success is the result of fragmentation and confusion. Good luck to RIM, er, BlackBerry-R-Us trying to find some kind of middle ground.
 
Please stop talking, you're embarrassing yourself.

At release:

Could only run a single app at a time.
No App Store
No ability to download music/video/audiobooks from iTunes
No GPS functionality with maps at all
No push email
No WPA2
Most youtube videos wouldn't work
No cut copy paste
Single calendar support with no CalDav
Terrible exchange supoprt
no folders
couldn't take video
couldn't zoom camera
couldn't create/edit playlists
No voice recognition
no over the air updates
no wifi synching support

Couldn't this be said about what BlackBerry is doing? They lack many of the apps that Apple and Android has but look where Apple started, who didn't have many of the capabilities and features that it now touts. Everybody started from the bottom up and built what the mobile world is like today. BlackBerry fell and is behind the curve on many things but to expect it to come out of the gate running with full-blown features is ridiculous.
 
BGR: http://bgr.com/2013/01/30/blackberr...rce=featuredposts-widget-main&utm_medium=home

"By practically bribing developers to make apps for BlackBerry and by having such a low standard of quality for the store in general, BlackBerry World not only has the least amount of apps of any mobile platform, but it has the worst quality. I’ve literally found apps that have been made for the BlackBerry PlayBook, a 7-inch tablet, and are unmodified on the BlackBerry Z10 so the buttons you have to tap are comically small"

From the same BGR report (emphasis mine):

"RIM is touting the fact that BlackBerry World has more than 70,000 apps, a great starting number. However, diving deeper, the company let me know that only around 1,000 of them are native BlackBerry 10 apps. The rest are ported from Android, or made in another programming language, or worse, even web apps."

Ouch.

While I have no real incentive to switch out of iOS at this point, I really would like BB10 to succeed. Initially when I saw the Z10, I thought it would be a good "plan b" if the day ever came that I really wanted to, or had to, leave iOS for something else. But the above is a real problem for me. I'm sorry, but the majority of Android apps are pretty lackluster in their native OS, let alone for an OS they don't even natively support.

I would've respected Blackberry more if they just said "hey, we have 1,000 native apps, but they're quality apps and we'll get more in time." But this just smacks of desperation, and it guarantees the apps will be perpetually mediocre at best. Why bother making a quality app for BB10, when you can just hack up an already half-baked Android app, knowing that Blackberry users will buy it because no one is motivated to do better?

----------

iOS 1.0 didn't need tons of features. Because Apple had an open field. There were no other multi-touch smartphones at the time, the smartphone market was stagnant and still stuck in the previous century's chiclet-keyboard-and-stylus era.

And yet somehow, the competitors all had those basic features. iOS arguably took a step BACKWARD to get it right.

I'm not saying doing the same thing now isn't any more risky. It's a HUGE risk. But they have to start somewhere. I would rather Blackberry try this, than not try at all.
 
I have to say, I was looking at BB10 and thinking it was going to be great, but their presentation today derailed those ideas totally.
  • The stream started with two songs being played over the top of each other. So much for professional
  • They started 5 minutes late
  • The CEO was almost begging the audience to applaud his uncharismatic presentation. At one time he even said "Come on!"
  • They actually hired a celebrity for publicity (Alicia Keys). Hired as in she actually works for BlackBerry now...
  • And the final nail in the coffin, no availability until mid to late March for USA. For a product that was already delayed for over a year? …..

If you want a laugh you can watch the recording here:

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/28919144

The presentation was so bad when Alicia Keys walked on stage I just closed the tab and went on to more important things. Sadly, I feel that a lot of people are going to be doing that.

Also, this is rather important: the Blackberry maps app is based on TomTom data and designed by the people who make Verizon Navigator (rated 2 stars on the Android market). TomTom's data isn't great (Apple maps) and Verizon Navigator is very bad application. Probably the only person who uses Verizon Nav are people who don't know about the existence of Google, though they have a Google phone :/
There will not be a Google Maps app for Blackberry in the near future (maybe next year), so if you are planning on using a BB10 for navigation I would highly recommend reconsidering. This is one of the main things I use my phone for, so it was the final straw for me.
 
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