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RIM telling Apple to Back Off

hcho3 said:
I would be upset too. Steve jobs acknowledges the iphone 4 issues, but he is also trying to drag other phones with iphone 4. He is basically trying to create the attention on the iphone 4's antenna problems to other smart phones as well. That's absurd.
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Can reality be absurd?
 
The thing is, yes all other smart phones do it too, they're just smart not enough to put a weak spot in a position thats commonly held by the normal user. I did the death grip on the Bold 9000, and realized to get it to work, I'd have to hold it an ungodly position which I would never do.

Try holding all smart phones in the exact same way you hold the iPhone 4, then compare.

(I do have a case on my phone, so I don't have to deal with the issue).
 
Whaditis said:
Can't see Apple overtaking RIM just yet when it comes to enterprise although Apple can make some inroads in that direction.
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I can say though, working at a major Pharma corporation, that a year or two ago, I saw nothing but Blackberries. Now, I see more and more iPhones in the hands of executives. The Blackberries still outnumber the iPhones, but the iPhone is making some ground.
 
Whaditis said:
In future it may very well be but right now as is RIM still is the leading enterprise solution to the majority of businesses out there.
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I know of two rather large companies that dropped RIM as a corporate solution.

Their employees are all carrying the Apple iPhone.

Imagine that!
 
Corey213 said:
I love their products but the company side of apple is starting to piss me off. They are acting like 7 year olds saying, " well he does it too!"
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No they are just stating the fact that the human body can act like an attenuator of an RF signal when the receiving device is handheld.

This is one way to totally prevent the issue, design Cell Phones to operate on lower frequencies. I know for example that frequencies in the HF and UHF spectrum and less prone to being attenuated by the human body.

Perhaps if more people were better experience in the design, function, and use of RF devices they might better understand what is happening, but the aren't so here we are.

Thread after thread after thread on the issue.
 
harcosparky said:
No they are just stating the fact that the human body can act like an attenuator of an RF signal when the receiving device is handheld.

This is one way to totally prevent the issue, design Cell Phones to operate on lower frequencies. I know for example that frequencies in the HF and UHF spectrum and less prone to being attenuated by the human body.

Perhaps if more people were better experience in the design, function, and use of RF devices they might better understand what is happening, but the aren't so here we are.

Thread after thread after thread on the issue.
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Maybe the trick is to design the device so that the antenna is somewhere that can't be touched when held...


Maybe...inside of the phone? Oh. My. God. This is going to change everything.
 
I have a Blackberry 8320. I work under a cell tower and across the street from an airport. I get fabulous reception. I hold the Blackberry in "the way" and guess what? I lose bars, too. Phffft. My Blackberry has dropped calls and performed every sin in the book, just like an iPhone. The difference is that it is far uglier than the iPhone, far slower on the internet, the apps stink, and the video is smeary and just plain old bad. So, what is RIM saying? What? Oh, I'm paying the same amount of money every month to own a Fartberry that I would be to own an iPhone?

Not for long...
 
It's either true or it's false.

If what Apple says is false, then RIM can take legal action.

If it's true. They can not.

It sounds to me like they simply resent having this issue made public.

C.
 
QCassidy352 said:
I don't get it - is RIM denying that the 9700 drop bars when held a certain way, or are they just unhappy that apple told people about it?
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Therein lies the rub. RIM never said "Our phones are immune to attenuation." Actually, so far none of the statements made have amounted to outright denials. They're all just huffing and puffing that their phones were tested and were involved, with veiled statements like "well, ours are positioned better." And granted, some probably are.

The issue is that it happens to a greater degree with the iphone 4 than most (all?) other smartphones - and that's what RIM should have pointed out.
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If they had the hard data to prove that, I'm sure they would have.
 
scaredpoet said:
Therein lies the rub. RIM never said "Our phones are immune to attenuation." Actually, so far none of the statements made have amounted to outright denials. They're all just huffing and puffing that their phones were tested and were involved, with veiled statements like "well, ours are positioned better." And granted, some probably are.



If they had the hard data to prove that, I'm sure they would have.
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Well, if theirs are indeed positioned better, then that's not so much a "veiled statement" but rather a pretty good argument, isn't it?
 
solarein said:
Maybe the trick is to design the device so that the antenna is somewhere that can't be touched when held...

Maybe...inside of the phone? Oh. My. God. This is going to change everything.
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It would be a pity to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

There's a real upside to what Apple have done. ( Building a phone into a large antenna. Instead of building a small antenna inside a phone. )

Apple's innovation has resulted in a smaller, thinner phone, that in many cases gets significantly better reception. Yes, the layout has made it too easy to detune the antenna. But this is the first major innovation in antenna design since the bendy stalk was removed. I'd like to see this innovation be widely adopted and improved.

I would be happy to bet that we will see other major manufacturers adopting an external antenna design, before we see Apple reverting to an internal antenna.

C.
 
This argument by Jobs was infantile at the best. Jobs was trying to discount the iPhone 4 faults by trying to include others.

I couldnt take the press conference seriously.

harcosparky said:
No they are just stating the fact that the human body can act like an attenuator of an RF signal when the receiving device is handheld.

This is one way to totally prevent the issue, design Cell Phones to operate on lower frequencies. I know for example that frequencies in the HF and UHF spectrum and less prone to being attenuated by the human body.

Perhaps if more people were better experience in the design, function, and use of RF devices they might better understand what is happening, but the aren't so here we are.

Thread after thread after thread on the issue.
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The key is to work around the human factor and Apple could have if they did better engineering trade offs.

Carniphage said:
It would be a pity to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

There's a real upside to what Apple have done. ( Building a phone into a large antenna. Instead of building a small antenna inside a phone. )

Apple's innovation has resulted in a smaller, thinner phone, that in many cases gets significantly better reception. Yes, the layout has made it too easy to detune the antenna. But this is the first major innovation in antenna design since the bendy stalk was removed. I'd like to see this innovation be widely adopted and improved.

I would be happy to bet that we will see other major manufacturers adopting an external antenna design, before we see Apple reverting to an internal antenna.

C.
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I agree with you, exterior antenna is back in after a hiatus and its here to stay.
 
While RIM probably doesn't appreciate Apple dragging their name through the mud, they probably aren't that concerned with the AT&T locked, antennae-gate iPhone.

They they are probably VERY worried about is Android. In 2 years google has turned EVERY phone manufacturer (except for Nokia and Palm, who have their own offerings) into a smart-phone competitor available on every carrier.

The only saving grace is that google hasn't built their office apps into the phone (yet), and that there isn't across-the-board support for MS exchange.
 
Steviejobz said:
Blackberry has much worse issues on its hands than getting into a pissing match with Apple. RIM has one foot in the grave. Its email client is losing its advantage, its web browser is from 1990, the OS they are building is about 5 years behind the times.

Maybe if they focused less on the antenna, they would not be heading the way of the palm pilot.
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I agree 100%.

I had a Blackberry for about 3 weeks and hated it. The OS is horrible. The web browser feels the same as my free Motorola L6 I got when I started with AT&T 5 years ago. The email/text interface is confusing, and they could at least add some decent ringers/sounds to make the phone a little more enjoyable to use.

To each their own, but I don't understand why people like those phones so much. They make a decent fleet type phone for companies, I guess..
 
If RIM has no problems then they have nothing to worry about. It's just like the new Sonic commercial using Burger King, Wendy's and McDonalds showing they don't have footlongs. So what.

RIM is scared that people will now test their phone, find out it has flaws, announce them and RIM will have to give out free cases too.
 
kdarling said:
Not sure how anyone could say RIM has "one foot in the grave" since they seem to consistently keep market share.

RIM is okay. Their OS is solid and businesses still love RIM for its security.

Now that half their customers are non-business, they've been trying to pretty up their OS.

That's why they bought a company for their WebKit based browser, and they're adding widgets.
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Whoa, looks like you've actually used a late model Blackberry lately! All this "one foot in the grave" rubbish...I have a couple Blackberries and they're both excellent phones with no reception problems whatsoever. Same with the Nokias sitting around here. Just posting what I actually see right in front of me.
 
See threads like this with pointless bashing of RIM for calling apple out on its crap show how blind Apple fans really are.

They will repeat and believe anything that their god Steve Jobs says is the truth. No matter if it only has 1 VERY minor shread of truth to it.

RIM and others are rightfully bashing Apple for dragging them into an Apple only problem. No other phone can you complete shut down with a light touch of 1 finger
 
RIM has every right to defend themselves against Apple or specifically Jobs. Wouldn't you? You have a guy like Jobs disrespect your company and product, then you have to fight back. It's a natural reaction. HTC was more blunt and short to the point "no other smartphone does it." I will say RIM does a great job fixing problems without it being made a public issue. They had high failure rates on specific model and it was dealt with quietly and redesigned. No media outcry and no one is the wiser. Whereas according to Jobs it's a "non issue" and here's a "free case." But with all that said white iPhone 4 here I come with case and Invisible Shield in hand.
 
Whaditis said:
News link with Rim's displeasure in being pulled into the Antennagate.

http://www.thestar.com/news/science...m-to-apple-we-don-t-have-your-antenna-problem

The maker of the BlackBerry has a message for Apple CEO Steve Jobs in the ongoing “Antennagate” scandal.

Back off.

When Jobs promised refunds for iPhone 4 customers dealing with dropped calls because of the phone's antenna design, he also implicated other smartphones as having the same issues. He specifically mentioned Research in Motion’s BlackBerry Bold 9700 and showed a video of it having trouble finding a signal.

It didn’t take long for RIM to respond.

“Apple's attempt to draw RIM into Apple's self-made debacle is unacceptable. Apple's claims about RIM products appear to be deliberate attempts to distort the public's understanding of an antenna design issue and to deflect attention from Apple's difficult situation,” read a statement from RIM executives Mike Lazaridis and Jim Balsillie.

Apple released the iPhone 4 on June 24 in the United States, the U.K., Japan, France and Germany. In the first three days, the company sold 1.7 million of the devices.

Shortly after the release, customers started to report dropped signals. Apple told them to buy a case or avoid gripping it in the lower-left corner, something now known as the “death grip.” Last week, the latest iPhone became the only version of Apple's device that Consumer Reports magazine refused to recommend. Apple stock plunged.

RIM’s statement noted that the Waterloo-based company was a global leader in antenna design and has avoided designs like the one Apple used for its latest iPhone.

“One thing is for certain, RIM's customers don't need to use a case for their BlackBerry smartphone to maintain proper connectivity. Apple clearly made certain design decisions and it should take responsibility for these decisions rather than trying to draw RIM and others into a situation that relates specifically to Apple,” it read.
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Seriously, people can't seem to think.

1. IPhone 4 Does not require a case.
2. No one said the Blackberry does.

Ironic they talk about distorting facts when they are doing just that IN THEIR RESPONSE.

The point is ALL PHONES HAVE THIS PROBLEM, CASES AREN'T REQUIRED. Pretty simple.
 
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