rMBP SSD Missing Space

[terraphantm]

Perhaps this is due to the SSD overprovisioning.

It is definitely due to overprovisioning - but every SSD on the market is overprovisioned. A 512GB SSD from anyone else will have atleast 524ish GB in actual NAND capacity. But it will be advertised as 512GB SSD.

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I'm posting what Apple reports. Nothing more. This whole rant is completely pointless. You aren't going to change a single thing by complaining in this forum about what Apple states regarding capacity. If it twists you out of shape so much, go DO something about it. File a lawsuit. Boycott Apple products. Submit feedback to Apple. This is a completely trivial issue and it's childish to throw a tantrum about it. Get over it!

You won't change a single thing by remaining quiet either. However if you're successful in getting people aware of a problem, then there could be a large enough group to make a class action warranted.

 

[lali]

hi
is the missing space not intentionally reserved for garbage collection? i seem to remember something to this effect in an anandtech ssd article, something in the sense that the ssd needs this space to operate efficiently?

 

[GGJstudios]

It most likely is due to overprovisioning, but Apple should not include overprovisioning in its advertising. Look at Sandforce drives - are any of them advertised as 512 GB, even though they have 512 GiB of flash on them?

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You've not understood a single thing we've said, putting up bogus math to prove your points which aren't even true, and you finally capitulate by saying "but it doesn't matter anyway." Look who's being childish. Well, it matters to some people.

What points have I made that aren't true? What math did I post to prove any points, beyond the obvious, which is that using 1024 vs 1000 does, indeed, exactly account for the difference between 768 and 750, etc.? I'm not capitulating anything.

OK, let's say Apple has outright lied, willingly, maliciously, with the intent to deceive the public. What are you going to do about it? Throw a tantrum here in a forum? Yeah, that's effective! The point is, you're just ranting for the sake of ranting, and it won't accomplish anything useful.

You won't change a single thing by remaining quiet either. However if you're successful in getting people aware of a problem, then there could be a large enough group to make a class action warranted.

I'm willing to go out on a limb and state unequivocally that a class action lawsuit over this issue will NEVER EVER happen. Period. It's nothing more than pointless ranting.

 

[tninety]

What points have I made that aren't true? What math did I post to prove any points, beyond the obvious, which is that using 1024 vs 1000 does, indeed, exactly account for the difference between 768 and 750, etc.? I'm not capitulating anything.

OK, let's say Apple has outright lied, willingly, maliciously, with the intent to deceive the public. What are you going to do about it? Throw a tantrum here in a forum? Yeah, that's effective! The point is, you're just ranting for the sake of ranting, and it won't accomplish anything useful.

The "proof" has been posted several times in this thread, but you don't seem to understand it.

Posting about it in MacRumors, a forum with frequent traffic, publicizes the issue, and serves to let potential customers reading know what Apple is doing and help them make an informed decision A 2% difference is A LOT in a 768 GB SSD.

 

[terraphantm]

What points have I made that aren't true? What math did I post to prove any points, beyond the obvious, which is that using 1024 vs 1000 does, indeed, exactly account for the difference between 768 and 750, etc.? I'm not capitulating anything.

The point is your math has no relevance to anything. All it proves is that we're getting slighted by 2.4%. Nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't account for *why* we're missing that space. And there's no point in posting it if you're not intending to explain anything, because we all know we're missing a small percentage of our space.

OK, let's say Apple has outright lied, willingly, maliciously, with the intent to deceive the public. What are you going to do about it? Throw a tantrum here in a forum? Yeah, that's effective! The point is, you're just ranting for the sake of ranting, and it won't accomplish anything useful.

No one is throwing a tantrum. We're just showing our drives did not come with the advertised capacity. And why should we just stay quiet? What does that accomplish? By posting about it, you raise awareness. The more people that are aware, the more feedback Apple will get. The more feedback Apple gets, the more likely they're to do something. And even if Apple does continue to ignore the issue, a lawyer may see some rumblings about false advertising and decide to take up the case.

There's nothing to gain by saying nothing, and potentially a lot to gain by speaking up.

 

[T5BRICK]

I'm willing to go out on a limb and state unequivocally that a class action lawsuit over this issue will NEVER EVER happen. Period. It's nothing more than pointless ranting.

If a class action lawsuit did happen, what would be accomplished? The lawyers would make a bunch of money and the end users would get a small refund. Apple may be forced to put a different disclaimer on their website.

 

[GGJstudios]

The "proof" has been posted several times in this thread, but you don't seem to understand it.

Proof of what? You still didn't answer my questions.

Posting about it in MacRumors, a forum with frequent traffic, publicizes the issue, and serves to let potential customers reading know what Apple is doing and help them make an informed decision A 2% difference is A LOT in a 768 GB SSD.

As already stated, if you're basing a buying decision on a 2% capacity difference, your buying criteria is flawed. You should have 10% or more of the capacity free, anyway.

 

[terraphantm]

I'm willing to go out on a limb and state unequivocally that a class action lawsuit over this issue will NEVER EVER happen. Period. It's nothing more than pointless ranting.

You don't know that. There have been similar lawsuits in the past that led to settlements. That's why we see everything advertised as "1GB = 1000MB; actual formatted capacity may be less" - but since that disclaimer does not account for the space we're missing out on, a new lawsuit against Apple would be warranted.

 

[GGJstudios]

If a class action lawsuit did happen, what would be accomplished? The lawyers would make a bunch of money and the end users would get a small refund. Apple may be forced to put a different disclaimer on their website.

You mean a disclaimer like this?:
Apple - MacBook Pro with Retina display - Technical Specifications

That says all they need to say. That the formatted capacity may be less. They don't need to say how much less or why. They have disclosed all they need to disclose.

 

[terraphantm]

If a class action lawsuit did happen, what would be accomplished? The lawyers would make a bunch of money and the end users would get a small refund. Apple may be forced to put a different disclaimer on their website.

The main point would be to end the misleading advertising and compensate those who were under the impression that they were getting more space than what was actually delivered.

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You mean a disclaimer like this?:
Apple - MacBook Pro with Retina display - Technical Specifications

Image
Image​

That says all they need to say. That the formatted capacity may be less. They don't need to say how much less or why. They have disclosed all they need to disclose.

Formatted capacity may be less. But here's the thing: You can view unformatted capacity through an OS too. And that's significantly less than what's being advertised.

 

[ericrwalker]

I left that drive at work, so I will have to answer that tomorrow.

I have some four 2TB WD drives here, and a 640GB WD if you have one of those to compare.

- No, we actually see the exact same capacity. The difference is only in the way Gigabytes are calculated. If we look at Bytes, I'll bet you anything our drives are exactly the same or very close to it.
For fun, here's my capacity in Bytes (the whole drive, not my partition): 256.060.514.304 bytes.

What's yours?

By the way: formatting uses nowhere near that much space. The difference you see on your machine IS because of the calculation of Gigabytes.

 

[tninety]

You don't know that. There have been similar lawsuits in the past that led to settlements. That's why we see everything advertised as "1GB = 1000MB; actual formatted capacity may be less" - but since that disclaimer does not account for the space we're missing out on, a new lawsuit against Apple would be warranted.

Class actions suck and take too long.

Maybe I'll try a small claims lawsuit for a large portion of what I paid for the machine - it doesn't take much to file one. If that succeeds, I'll post all the evidence I used and my procedures on MacRumors. That will get Apple to change its ways.

 

[GGJstudios]

Formatted capacity may be less. But here's the thing: You can view unformatted capacity through an OS too. And that's significantly less than what's being advertised.

Since people don't use the drives unformatted, that's meaningless.

 

[tninety]

Since people don't use the drives unformatted, that's meaningless.

Um, but unformatted capacity directly affects how the capacity is when formatted.

 

[JTToft]

You're simply way off about almost everything, GGJstudios.

For one thing the equations you posted are NOT correct:

256,000,000 / 1024 = 250
512,000,000 / 1024 = 500
768,000,000 / 1024 = 750

These equations are correct:
256,000,000 / 1024 = 250,000
512,000,000 / 1024 = 500,000
768,000,000 / 1024 = 750,000

If you wanted to arrive at the result you posted, you'd have to do this:
256,000,000 / 1024 / 1000 = 250
512,000,000 / 1024 / 1000 = 500
768,000,000 / 1024 / 1000 = 750

... which makes no sense at all.

 

[terraphantm]

Class actions suck and take too long.

Maybe I'll try a small claims lawsuit for a large portion of what I paid for the machine - it doesn't take much to file one. If that succeeds, I'll post all the evidence I used and my procedures on MacRumors. That will get Apple to change its ways.

It's better than nothing.

Small claims may be an interesting avenue to take.

 

[T5BRICK]

You mean a disclaimer like this?:
Apple - MacBook Pro with Retina display - Technical Specifications

Image​

That says all they need to say. That the formatted capacity may be less. They don't need to say how much less or why. They have disclosed all they need to disclose.

I saw that you posted this previously. I was simply pointing out that a class action lawsuit isn't really going to accomplish much.

 

[tninety]

It's better than nothing.

Small claims may be an interesting avenue to take.

Class actions result in enormous payouts for lawyers and very little for consumers. I doubt class members will get more than $50 in such a settlement.

If 1000 people sue Apple through small claims court using some standard evidence and each extract $1000, it will have cost them $1 million and put $1 million directly into the pockets of consumers that may have been tricked.

 

[terraphantm]

Since people don't use the drives unformatted, that's meaningless.

Okay, let me break this down into simple pieces that you can understand:

Apple's disclaimer is "1GB = 1000MB; Formatted capacity may be less"

That implies that the unformatted capacity is *not* less. Therefore in the case of a 512GB SSD, it is reasonable to expect the unformatted capacity to be 512GB. However that is not the case. The unformatted capacity is 500GB. The formatted capacity drops even further by 200MB to 1GB depending on if you have a recovery partition or not.

Had the unformatted capacity been what was advertised, the formatted capacity would also be higher by the same amount.

 

[GGJstudios]

I was simply pointing out that a class action lawsuit isn't really going to accomplish much.

Exactly! And ranting about it in a forum is going to accomplish even less, but it appears some aren't looking for a solution or an explanation, as much as they just want to bash Apple about SOMETHING! Next, they'll be griping about the fact that the 15" MacBook Pro is really 15.4" or that Apple's statement:

The wireless web test measures battery life by wirelessly browsing 25 popular websites with display brightness set to 50%.

is misleading, because not everyone may agree that the websites that they use are "popular".

Some people just want to complain about anything they can find.

 

[JTToft]

You mean a disclaimer like this?:
Apple - MacBook Pro with Retina display - Technical Specifications

Image​

That says all they need to say. That the formatted capacity may be less. They don't need to say how much less or why. They have disclosed all they need to disclose.

- It isn't the formatted capacity we are talking about that is less than advertised. It is the unformatted capacity, meaning the total capacity of the drive. And no, Apple hasn't disclosed all it needs to in that footnote. That footnote does not explain the missing 18 GB.

I left that drive at work, so I will have to answer that tomorrow.

I have some four 2TB WD drives here, and a 640GB WD if you have one of those to compare.

- I'm afraid I don't. But trust me, you will see the same or almost the same figure as me. Do check it out tomorrow at work.

 

[terraphantm]

Class actions result in enormous payouts for lawyers and very little for consumers. I doubt class members will get more than $50 in such a settlement.

If 1000 people sue Apple through small claims court using some standard evidence and each extract $1000, it will have cost them $1 million and put $1 million directly into the pockets of consumers that may have been tricked.

I really can't see a judge awarding $1000 for this.

 

[GGJstudios]

That footnote does not explain the missing 18 GB.

That's because there IS no missing 18GB. Nothing is missing. It's simply calculated differently than you expect. All the space is there, whether it's being used for something or available for you to use, and regardless of what unit of measurement is employed, all the space is there.

The important point to understand is that the available storage capacity is the same no matter which system (decimal or binary) is used. Nothing is missing.

 

[terraphantm]

That's because there IS no missing 18GB. Nothing is missing. It's simply calculated differently than you expect. All the space is there, whether it's being used for something or available for you to use, and regardless of what unit of measurement is employed, all the space is there.

If all of the space was there, the drive should report its capacity as 512,000,000,000 bytes. It doesn't.

Let's say one had a cMBP, bought a 512GB SSD, installed it in the system, installed OSX, and then checked the space. It would report itself as 512GB. Not 500GB like the SSDs in BTO systems

 

[brentsg]

Proof of what? You still didn't answer my questions.

As already stated, if you're basing a buying decision on a 2% capacity difference, your buying criteria is flawed. You should have 10% or more of the capacity free, anyway.

But you still need to leave some capacity free in either case. But now you have even less leftover at the end.

It's important to know what you should expect. Many people will be downsizing when moving to an SSD for the first time. People are removing unnecessary features and data, trying to slim down to some magical number. In this case, it's important to know what this magical number is when choosing the new drive.

In my case I had exactly 2GB of surplus space when I calculated my desired scenario.