This is what causes the problem! Use the road, the whole road. Don't crash through the barricades, and you're good.
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If the sign says "lane closed ahead" where is the fault or failure to observe the sign?
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Rules of the Road
- Thread starter Huntn
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This is what causes the problem! Use the road, the whole road. Don't crash through the barricades, and you're good.
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A sign like that is part of the problem — or, at least, when it’s worded like that.
“Lane closed” doesn’t help determine which lane, so “right lane” or “left lane” is good to know... EXCEPT...
... what does “ahead” mean? One mile? One-eighth of a mile? Okay, so then, they put up signs that give the distance, too. But that still doesn’t help, because...
... who’s to say where the best merge point is? I don’t trust most of the knuckleheads on the road with me; does anyone else trust them? No, we don’t.
“The drivers slower than you are goddamned idiots, and the drivers faster than you are all frickin’ maniacs!” - George Carlin
What any one of us thinks is guaranteed to be different than what everyone else thinks. This forum thread is living proof. We could all unknowingly end up in the same construction zone and we’ll still get mad about the same differences in driving behavior that we’re discussing here.
I’ll keep banging this drum: The best way to solve this is to use signs to direct drivers to use a single merge point. Stop making the individual drivers guess for themselves, because that’s where the disagreements come from.
That's all good on the conclusion the other cars "let" you merge, and doesn't turn into a race for pole position.
Never drive on our freeways here.... I'm seen some real idiots. Everyone seems to rush.
Sign posts only help. You can't control someone who chooses to ignore. I've seen Taxi drives do U-turns at traffic lights.. people go though stop signs where no traffic is coming in other directions, and occasionally "near misses" bumper to bumper when "trying to merge" Neither wants to give way.
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Traffic lights and stop signs aren’t on highways in construction zones, which is what this thread is about.
Well, yes, the sign almost always specifies which lane is closed ahead. I literally did not have time to type the word "left" or certainly not "right" as it has an additional letter.
And your conclusion is exactly what my first post illustrated during my visit to Canada years ago. Better signage is the best answer. Not everyone will comply with the instructions, just like not everyone stops at a red light. But most people will comply, and that will cause less stress, road rage, fender benders, etc.
I had the exact situation described in the OP just a few blocks from work last summer. I would drive two blocks to a stop light, and turn right. The right lane was closed just before the next stop light, about another two blocks (but no other street intersection). At busy times, there was no open space to turn into in the left lane. So I could sit at the green light and piss off my co-workers behind me for the next hour (while we waited for traffic stopped at the light heading towards the construction to disappear) or I could turn into the right lane.
Choosing the second option meant that I was now in a fully open lane and all the cars in the left lane were not moving. About halfway to the orange cones, there was that stupid sign saying "Right Lane Closed Ahead".
One day, a female driver stopped in the line got distracted momentarily and allowed some space in front of her car. I put on my signal to merge over. When she saw that, she accelerated to keep me out of "her" lane. So I put down my window, and she took the invitation. I asked, "Have you ever heard of the zipper merge." - "Yes." - "That's what this is." - "But the sign says the right lane is closed." Window, up, jam on the brakes to prevent hitting the car in front of her.
No, the sign said "Right Lane Closed Ahead".
I solved the problem, starting the next day. I took a different, longer, route home until the construction was 100% completed.
IMHO the merge point is the merge point - there is no point in merging in early. The road is there to be used - use it. Make the most of the available space and the length of the traffic jam is reduced. So for me, the OP did the correct thing.
You do often get the idiots who think you are pushing in. You aren't pushing in - you are following the road and doing as directed by the signs.
I'm assuming stop-start traffic for this. On a freely flowing road where the lane closure isn't causing a jam I'd merge in much earlier, as it's just easier and safer than a last-minute swerve.
You do often get the idiots who think you are pushing in. You aren't pushing in - you are following the road and doing as directed by the signs.
I'm assuming stop-start traffic for this. On a freely flowing road where the lane closure isn't causing a jam I'd merge in much earlier, as it's just easier and safer than a last-minute swerve.
Can you re-word this? I'm trying to figure out what the situation was (seems like an outlier anyway).
Is it like this, where "forward" is "reading down the page"? --
You
[road with two lanes]
[more road]
[Sign that says right lane closed ahead]
[Your stoplight where you want to turn right]
[more road]
[Actual lane closure]
[Second stoplight]
Typically....
Posted merge and construction merge signs are informational/warning, not regulatory. They inform drivers a lane is ending and to merge as soon as safely possible. That’s it.
Whether a driver merges early or at the merge point (zipper stuff) and whether the non-merging driver(s) interprets it as rude is irrelevant.
You’re expected to drive sanely and with good sense and judgement even when facing an insane driver. Roadway egos cause accidents resulting in property damage, injuries, and deaths not to mention murders.
Settle down out there!
Posted merge and construction merge signs are informational/warning, not regulatory. They inform drivers a lane is ending and to merge as soon as safely possible. That’s it.
Whether a driver merges early or at the merge point (zipper stuff) and whether the non-merging driver(s) interprets it as rude is irrelevant.
You’re expected to drive sanely and with good sense and judgement even when facing an insane driver. Roadway egos cause accidents resulting in property damage, injuries, and deaths not to mention murders.
Settle down out there!
The Situation:
In my neighborhood on a dual lane road (two lanes each way separated by a medium), speed limit 45mph, about a mile before , a sign says Road Work Ahead. About a half mile before, a sign says Right Lane Closed, and traffic starts moving towards the left lane. However the right lane is still open, but in the left traffic has slowed down to 5mph or less. What should you do?
The reason I ask, I was in this situation, in the right lane, and about 200’ prior to the merge point a car was straddling both lanes as if to say, I’m not going to lose my spot by letting you passing me on the right. Fortunately he did not straddle enough and I eased by him, and proceeded up to merge point about 15 cars ahead of him where I merged. No cursing or shots were fired. Maybe I was lucky.
- Move to the left lane merging safely ASAP.
- Stay in your lane (if you are in the right lane, wait until the merge point (angled cones that direct the right lane traffic into the left), and then merge into a single lane in an orderly fashion.
- Merge whenever you want as long as it safe and orderly.
Was I right or wrong, or is there no wrong answer?
Here is my reasoning, when a lane is closed, from a traffic congestion standpoint, it makes more sense to fill both lanes equally until the merge point than to have one lane backed up twice as far. You keep your proper place in line, and no one passes you up because you were extra orderly and formed a single line early, which is also a valid choice, but not required.
If everyone is formed in a line waiting and you pass all of them, there's no getting around that it's a very selfish act. You're effectively saying: "you can all wait longer so I don't have to".
The best case scenario is if equal numbers of vehicles flow in each lane to the merge point, then alternate -- however it's not easy to control traffic in this way.
What this situation really shows though is the competitive nature of people. For all the talk about sharing, compassion, empathy, etc etc, people generally act in their own best interest, at the cost of those who are least willing to compete.
Watch the vid I included in my first post:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/rules-of-the-road.2110169/page-2#post-25897247
The issue is if the lane that is open is at a crawl/stop while the closing lane is still moving at a decent pace, it’s not safe/efficient to free for all merge and have people slowing down and hoping to find someone to let them in. Hence the zipper method is best. But if there is an opening
The dick move is someone in the stopped/crawling lane to cut out into the moving lane expecting someone to let them back in.
Yeah, it confirms what I said -- it's most efficient when everyone merges at a single spot.
Are you just backing up my point?
Sort of, although what I'm saying is that it's best to control traffic in such a location -- and it's pretty easy if the signs are done right -- and not rely on conventional wisdom.
This thread is loaded with "conventional wisdom" and "here's what I learned", and it's a prime example of how nobody can agree on how to drive in a scenario like this.
[doublepost=1521490130][/doublepost]And this part (not arguing against your point) --
The fix, as I see it, is to have someone else -- who's an impartial third party and has no self-interests in getting to their destination faster -- take over the decision process and direct the traffic to merge in a specific way.
That's where the Department of Transportation comes in, issuing the direction via the roadside signs that the construction crew puts up. They're the impartial third party. When a ten-foot-tall sign made of yellow lights says, "Use Both Lanes", more drivers are willing to defer to the signs.
You'll still have outliers who say, "I don't care what that sign says, I'm merging right now," but more drivers already in the closure lane will stay there because they assume that the closure point isn't in the next hundred feet -- because the sign is telling them to keep doing what they're doing for a little while longer.
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What's "soon?" What's "safely"?
Those are the questions that everyone has different answers to, and all those different answers are where the conflicts of egos arise from.
Just like a lot of things in life driving is no different - it’s left up to you to exercise sound rational judgement.
A yield sign is a regulatory sign requiring a driver to yield the right of way until it is safe to proceed. That’s it! That’s all the guidance you get. It requires judgement and mature reasonable tempers. If a traffic cop sees a violation s/he will take enforcement action. But cops aren’t everywhere.
If someone, in your judgement, does you wrong your response needs to be reasonably calculated. You still own your response.
You and I know that -- but does the average person know it, too?
My point is, since nobody on the road can nonverbally agree on what to do (especially in the USA, where I swear you can get a driver's license by saving cereal box tops), it's up to someone else to tell the drivers instead.
Most people probably do - up to the moment they start their car. Lol
[doublepost=1521493840][/doublepost]By the way, I’m a menace on the road.
The zippered merge, and merging where the lane actually closes is the correct way to do this.
However, what you did was not a zippered merge, and it was likely the reason that the left lane is backed up/stop and go.
For the zippered merge you should have picked the car in the left lane slightly ahead of you and stayed slightly behind it in the right lane until you got to the merge point and then changed lanes. The car slightly behind you in the left lane should stay slightly behind you leaving space for you to merge in.
When you pass people in the right lane and then cut in at the last moment you are making all of those cars behind you have to suddenly change speed in order for you to fit in. That causes the car behind them to slow down, which causes the car behind them to slow down even more, etc until the 5th or 6th car back has to pretty much stop in order to keep from hitting the person in front of them, and everyone behind him has to stop too.
The person that was driving in both lanes was pretty much trying to get everyone to do the zippered merge. He was trying to make sure that the people in the left lane were keeping enough room between them for him to fit in, while also trying to stay in the right lane where he should be. Instead, people see that person as being a "jerk" taking up both lanes and try to pass them on the right or left, the zippered merge goes out the window, and everything is screwed up.
However, what you did was not a zippered merge, and it was likely the reason that the left lane is backed up/stop and go.
For the zippered merge you should have picked the car in the left lane slightly ahead of you and stayed slightly behind it in the right lane until you got to the merge point and then changed lanes. The car slightly behind you in the left lane should stay slightly behind you leaving space for you to merge in.
When you pass people in the right lane and then cut in at the last moment you are making all of those cars behind you have to suddenly change speed in order for you to fit in. That causes the car behind them to slow down, which causes the car behind them to slow down even more, etc until the 5th or 6th car back has to pretty much stop in order to keep from hitting the person in front of them, and everyone behind him has to stop too.
The person that was driving in both lanes was pretty much trying to get everyone to do the zippered merge. He was trying to make sure that the people in the left lane were keeping enough room between them for him to fit in, while also trying to stay in the right lane where he should be. Instead, people see that person as being a "jerk" taking up both lanes and try to pass them on the right or left, the zippered merge goes out the window, and everything is screwed up.
If you are addressing me, if traffic is backed up in the open lane for 2 miles, it means a lot of people have chosen to merge early instead of at the merge point where the lane starts to taper off. In my situation the traffic in the left lanes is stop and slow. It’s been easy to merge in at the designated merge point from the right lane. Today there were a bunch of people in the right lane, so zippered merging was proceeding as expected.
No, I don't think so. My experience is that most drivers, in my area anyway, get in the line rather than take the open lane.
I generally try to merge as early as possible. If I'm in the remaining lane as it approaches the closure (tapering cones are imminent), I try to be nice but if I see someone jump out of the line behind me and try to merge directly in front of me, well, "try" is the operative word. Also, if you're towing a trailer (or even if you're not) and your front bumper is even with my mirror, you can bet your backside I'm not letting you in.
This thread gives me road rage and is the precise reason I never want to live anywhere that can be construed as urban/suburban.
if you know the lane you're in is going to close just merge when you can don't wait until the orange cones are next to your bumper
if you know the lane you're in is going to close just merge when you can don't wait until the orange cones are next to your bumper
When is “when you can”? How far away from the construction zone? 500 feet? 2 miles? Somewhere in between?
Btw, I purposely used partial quotes in the last couple posts to try taking out the emotional aspect and just focus on the “why” behind these decisions.