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But you have to look at the market, this is a direct competitor with the LG Gram. It weights less than 3 pounds and can drive one monitor over usbc and another over hdmi. And its a similar price class to what this will be. This isn't about low-end v. high-end, its about a lighter, larger screened laptop that can do basic things like driving multiple displays without being a brick.
You raise an interesting premise suggesting that Mac laptops should be configured as direct competitors to Wintel boxes like the LG. My premise (but I could be wrong) is that positioning Macs properly in the lineup of Macs is much more important. Apple became the world's largest most profitable tech company by specifically not attempting to go directly against the likes of LG.
 
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Why would you expect Apple to first put M3 into a 15" MBA or Mac Minis when the M2 by now has evolved to higher yields and be more cost-effective? Certainly neither the low end laptops nor low end desktops need the very latest (therefore low yields and pricey) M3 chips to provide low end performance.

Low end pricing screams for M2, not for M3.
Schedule, i mostly agree with you, but marketing is something sometimes out of logic, i mentioned Mac mini but not order specific. Actually I bet next Mac getting m3 to be the iMac 24 (I originally speculated it to get m2/m2 pro, but a number of evidence suggests iMac skipping m2 getting m3 only no iMac pro for a while).

Some models to skip ASi generations as regular, iMac Mac studio, Mac pro, unlikely being updated every year as MacBook/MacBook pro/mini
 
Some models to skip ASi generations as regular, iMac Mac studio, Mac pro, unlikely being updated every year as MacBook/MacBook pro/mini
You are probably right, but I wish otherwise ;~). Personally I want to buy an M2 Max Studio, right now. And I prefer not to wait - - and then pay for lower yield therefore pricier M3 SoC.
 
I know, right?

The last good stuff they released was:
  • MacBook Air with M1 SoC
  • MacBook Air with M2 SoC
  • MacBook Pro 13" with M1 SoC
  • MacBook Pro 13" with M2 SoC
  • MacBook Pro 14" with M1 Pro and M1 Max SoC
  • MacBook Pro 14" with M2 Pro and M2 Max SoC
  • MacBook Pro 16" with M1 Pro and M1 Max SoC
  • MacBook Pro 16" with M2 Pro and M2 Max SoC
  • iMac 24" with M1 SoC
  • Mac mini with M1 SoC
  • Mac mini with M2 SoC
  • Mac Studio with M1 Max and M1 Ultra SoC

That was sooooo long ago. Those were the days of glory!

Was referring to the pointless pee-colored phone in 20 different versions. Can you list all of those out for me?
 
An Intel MBA or even the old regular 13.3" MacBooks could do this. It's a choice by Apple to do this. I can get additional monitors to run using DisplayLink adapters on M1, so its not a performance limitation.
You are correct: It's a choice by Apple to do this. Apple is positioning its products with the MBA as the low end laptop line.
 
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True. But Apple already tapped out one or more designs for N3 which are already in production. M3 might arrive earlier than the fall. It makes sense to produce the low volume design first as the production ramps. So M3 Ultra could be the first M3 to arrive, with M3, M3 Pro and M3 Max later the cycle.

Yes, that's exactly what I said...

The only chance we could see anything from this node before then, is if it's something going into a low-volume product, such as the Mac Pro or high-end Mac Studio.

So, they could've very well started producing M3 Ultra and "M3 Extreme" for a summer release of the Mac Pro.
 
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True. But Apple already tapped out one or more designs for N3 which are already in production. M3 might arrive earlier than the fall. It makes sense to produce the low volume design first as the production ramps. So M3 Ultra could be the first M3 to arrive, with M3, M3 Pro and M3 Max later the cycle.

Yes, that's exactly what I said...

So, they could've very well started producing M3 Ultra and "M3 Extreme" for a summer release of the Mac Pro.

Like I said here...

ASi Mac Pro 2023 timeline:
  • March/April teaser
  • WWDC full reveal
  • July/August pre-orders
  • September/October delivery
 
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Errr, yes the MBA is Apple's low end laptop, by definition; with the MBPs as the high end. The fact that one can find lower price non-Apple elsewhere is irrelevant when discussing how product features/competence are configured across Apple's range of laptops.
This depends on your viewpoint, I guess. Hermes produce handbags of different prices, but I'd describe none of them as "low end" items where you'd find considerable compromises. Same with any high end manufacturer.

Apple do indeed have to decide where and how to gimp their cheaper devices, especially now that they're even releasing "low end" MacBook Pros, which is a silly dilution of their product. However, Apple do risk the wrath of this forum every time people feel the handicaps forced upon the lower cost devices are too severe, and hard to justify compared to laptops from other manufacturers. While the ecosystems are different, we all have some idea of what we expect from the hardware at a given price point.
 
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At this point the best idea they can think of is new colors to an iPhone that it’s almost the same as the previous year. Well at least it doesn’t have downgrades as other products.
 
Why would you expect Apple to first put M3 into a 15" MBA or Mac Minis when the M2 by now has evolved to higher yields and be more cost-effective? Certainly neither the low end laptops nor low end desktops need the very latest (therefore low yields and pricey) M3 chips to provide low end performance.

Low end pricing screams for M2, not for M3.

Completely agree. There's a reason Apple has moved their "latest and greatest" A-series SoCs to the iPhone Pro models only; they've become increasingly more expensive to produce. So if there is in fact a Mac-based ASi chip being produced alongside the A17, on TSMC's N3 node, to be released by or at WWDC, it will be destined for a low-volume, high-margin product. Otherwise, any M3's currently being produced won't debut until the Fall.

I also just can't see Apple releasing the base M3 so soon after the M2. I know the Mac is a different product than the iPhone, but it hasn't even been a year since the M2 was released. Furthermore, the iMac is still on the M1! It's been two years since it was released, why has no one talked about its imminent update?


Also, regarding the "Mx Extreme" being cancelled... Gurman's (who started the "quad" rumor to begin with) reasoning is because...

Based on Apple's current pricing structure, an M2 Extreme version of a Mac Pro would probably cost at least $10,000 — without any other upgrades — making it an extraordinarily niche product that likely isn't worth the development costs, engineering resources and production bandwidth it would require

Which makes zero sense, since the highest end Intel Xeon - without any other upgrades - starts at $12,999 Furthermore, the Mac Pro itself, is an extraordinarily niche product which is why it is so damned expensive. And what other system other than a Mac Pro could ever support an SoC the size of an "Extreme"? It was always going to be an extraordinarily niche product. This "cancelled" rumor is just a rumormonger trying to save face.

Personally, I don't think the "quad" variant was ever in Apple's sites. It was a rumor based on an interposer schematic. The Mx Max has a single interposer connection on the bottom, so that two can "butt" up to each other. There's no evidence that they can also be "attached" side by side.

So, I still believe the delay with the Mac Pro, is in designing and producing a completely custom CPU and GPU for it. That delay mostly falling on the GPU and adding ray tracing support, so that it can truly compete with AMD and Nvidia.
 
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Completely agree. There's a reason Apple has moved their "latest and greatest" A-series SoCs to the iPhone Pro models only; they've become increasingly more expensive to produce. So if there is in fact a Mac-based ASi chip being produced alongside the A17, on TSMC's N3 node, it will be destined for a low-volume, high-margin product.

Such as the ASi Mac Pro...!

I also just can't see Apple releasing the base M3 so soon after the M2. I know the Mac is a different product than the iPhone, but it hasn't even been a year since the M2 was released. Furthermore, the iMac is still on the M1! It's been two years since it was released, why has no one talked about its imminent update?

With the ASi Mac Pro being the last Mac to make the transition to Apple silicon, it makes sense to release the high-end M3 SoCs (Ultra & Extreme) first, get the ASi Mac Pro out and have GB Jr. land on the AC to tell us the mission is complete...!

Also, regarding the "Mx Extreme" being cancelled... Gurman's (who started the "quad" rumor to begin with) reasoning is because...


Based on Apple's current pricing structure, an M2 Extreme version of a Mac Pro would probably cost at least $10,000 — without any other upgrades — making it an extraordinarily niche product that likely isn't worth the development costs, engineering resources and production bandwidth it would require

Which makes zero sense, since the highest end Intel Xeon - without any other upgrades - starts at $12,999 Furthermore, the Mac Pro itself, is an extraordinarily niche product which is why it is so damned expensive.

My thoughts as well...

Personally, I don't think the "quad" variant was ever in Apple's sites. It was a rumor based on an interposer schematic. The Mx Max has a single interposer connection on the bottom, so that two can "butt" up to each other. There's no evidence that they can also be "attached" side by side.

Some here say the M2 Max has two UF connectors, one on top & one on the bottom; but zero evidence is provided to corroborate these ramblings...

So, I still believe the delay with the Mac Pro, is in designing and producing a completely custom CPU and GPU for it. That delay mostly falling on the GPU and adding ray tracing support.

Hardware ray-tracing seems to be a must have in the Features list for parity with other GPU vendors...
 
(1) Some here say the M2 Max has two UF connectors, one on top & one on the bottom; but zero evidence is provided to corroborate these ramblings...


(2) Hardware ray-tracing seems to be a must have in the Features list for parity with other GPU vendors...

1. Well, I'm not sure about all of that... but if that were the case why does the image of the Ultra basically show two Max SoCs interposed with the bottom SoC flipped upside down so they're connected bottom to bottom?

2. Well, yeah for 3D rendering applications having hardware acceleration provides a huge performance gain.
 
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1. Well, I'm not sure about all of that... but if that were the case why does the image of the Ultra basically show two Max SoCs interposed with the bottom SoC flipped upside down so they're connected bottom to bottom?

That is the M1 Max we have seen with a single UF connect, we have yet to see what the M2 Max has in regards to UF connects...

It could very well be that the M2 Max actually has no UF connects because the next Mn Ultra SoC is going to be of the M3 variant...

2. Well, yeah for 3D rendering applications having hardware acceleration provides a huge performance gain.

Others here seem to think hardware ray-tracing is not a must-have, but I agree that it could give a much needed boost to render times in properly optimized 3D apps (looking at you, Blender)...
 
Personally, I don't think the "quad" variant was ever in Apple's sites. It was a rumor based on an interposer schematic. The Mx Max has a single interposer connection on the bottom, so that two can "butt" up to each other. There's no evidence that they can also be "attached" side by side.

I expect the quad was canceled before the Pro/Max design got finished, but it did exist on paper at one point, and that’s what leaked years later.

It doesn’t really tell us much about what M2 or M3 plans are.
 
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Which makes zero sense,
Gotcha, Gurman haa no actual sources at TSMC neither the Mac Pro r&d team.

Personally, I don't think the "quad" variant was ever in Apple's sites. It was a rumor based on an interposer schematic.

Wrong, but never arranged as a 4 tile squared window, it actually looks as a 4 Chip strip (I prefer to name it a dominoes). It's UltraFusion it's daisy-chainable north/south, m2 max requires memory interconnected at its sides, a 4 tile arrangement to block two channels front each SOC.


Some here say the M2 Max has two UF connectors, one on top & one on the bottom; but zero evidence is provided to corroborate these ramblings...
It's difficult without exposing the source, but not just UF+ has north/south path, it's bias are not at m2 Max's Edges but close to m2 center, likely m2 extreme/Ultra UltraFusion bridge being more like a carpet where an M2 Max lies with north and south interface for additional CPUs, Even it may resemble Nvidia 4 GPU nvlink arrangement.

A thing that intrigues few engineer with access to the same sources is not just M2 max have inbuilt UltraFusion provisions, m2 pro seems too , maybe not to daisy chain m2 pro but for other added capabilities on later devices as PCIe5 buses Even dGPU, it's hard to guess why m2 pro also include something which seems an lower rank UltraFusion.

Edit: m1 extreme also briefly existed it was based on a quite Long bridge where two soc at each side connected each other, besides expensive it had memory related issues which late doomed it.
 
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It's difficult without exposing the source...

See, in the past you have said all your posts were fueled by beer & pot, and claimed to have no sources; hence my skepticism on some of your statements; but if you have an actual source, then I can respect the need for their anonymity...

but not just UF+ has north/south path, it's bias are not at m2 Max's Edges but close to m2 center, likely m2 extreme/Ultra bridge being more like a carpet where an M2 Max lies with north and south interface for additional CPUs, Even it may resemble Nvidia 4 GPU nvlink arrangement.

2x2 or 1x4, anything that gives a working Mn "Extreme"...!

A thing that intrigues few engineer with access to the same sources is not just M2 max have inbuilt UltraFusion provisions, m2 pro seems too , maybe not to daisy chain m2 pro but for other added capabilities on later devices as PCIe5 buses Even dGPU, it's hard to guess why m2 pro also include something which seems an lower rank UltraFusion.

Maybe for a Mac Studio aimed at users who need the CPU core count of the Ultra, but not all the GPU cores or Media Engines...?



I still hope the ASi Mac Pro debuts with M3 Ultra & M3 "Extreme" SoCs...!
 
What we need for laptops is not necessarily bigger screens but now more adapted aspect ratios. 16:10 is a complete fallacy for screen size below 16". We need 4:3 like on the Microsoft surface laptop. Such a better screen experience, it’s unbelievable we’re stuck with this non sense elongated format…
 
all your posts were fueled by beer & pot,
I'm always quite high when posting here he he 👽
Maybe for a Mac Studio aimed at users who need the CPU core count of the Ultra, but not all the GPU cores or Media Engines...?
I considered it, also given the studio has no room for two m2 max, but other evidence suggests that m2 Ultra studio won't happen, since it's launch Mac studio with M1 ultra has an one or two months backlog, it means either quite strong demand or low yield, the latter it's particularly bad news for Mac pro -anything.
2x2 or 1x4, anything that gives a working Mn "Extreme"...!

Latest leak suggest it to look like Two m2 max on top of the edges of a table and said table at the edges of another larger that also adds PCIe5 I/O Google nvlink 4way maybe some photo will depict it better.
 
What we need for laptops is not necessarily bigger screens but now more adapted aspect ratios. 16:10 is a complete fallacy for screen size below 16". We need 4:3 like on the Microsoft surface laptop. Such a better screen experience, it’s unbelievable we’re stuck with this non sense elongated format…
I think 16:10 works pretty good. It's a relief that the 16:9 era seems to be over. Happy that Apple didn't fall for that trend.
 
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Was referring to the pointless pee-colored phone in 20 different versions. Can you list all of those out for me?
Given that I have never seen 20 different versions of an iPhone series much less 20 versions of the "pee colored" iPhone, no I can't list them for you. Only you can do that since you seem to have something very specific in mind.
 
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