Russian Lawmaker Seeks to Cap Apple's App Store Commission at 20%

[farewelwilliams]

Well, Yelp pays 30% of the app price, and 30% of in-app purchases. I think the app is free, and they have no in-app purchases Apple's App Store has identical rules for everyone, and as a result some companies pay for others.

Yes 30% * $0 = $0. If Yelp had to pay thousands every month to have an app on iOS, Yelp would simply not make an iOS app and direct users to the web version which is not a great experience.

Every developer has free usage of Apple's resources and it's funded by the 30%. It's fair for everyone and it improves UX for everyone. 30% makes sense to me!

 

[farewelwilliams]

I'm more looking forward to sideloading apps anyway, but hey come on, 30% to cover these services is hilarious.
At least 20% of is pure revenue, or why do you think they avoid disclosing it.

I calculated 15% investment/15% profit (from my estimates after reading analyst reports and quarterly financial statements)

Remember when apps used to take 10-14 days to review? I do. And when an app got rejected, it became a death sentence for startups when they had to wait another 5-7 days for another submission. Now it's only 24 hours and a rejection typically adds only 12 hours. And they did that without asking for more cut.

I would rather have more investments into developers than asking for a cut reduction.

 

[GeoStructural]

Can you can stop all your friends and family from doing so as well? Or instead, have to not trust every link or attachment or file they send you, because THEY installed a malicious app? Or even after you stop accepting anything from anyone, yet your personal information and files/pictures are being harvested and sent somewhere from THEIR maliscious app. So I got it... you think we should only install from App Store ourselves, not accept any links/files from anyone, and not share any personal info or files with anyone. Oh, and not share location data with anyone either.
Problem starting to make more sense now?

How is that different from the usage of PCs and Macs? If iOS is so secure what is the risk then? Anyone on this age has at least some literacy on the risks of the net.

I own my iPhone, I paid for it, I should be allowed to decide what to install and what not. I am not planning on installing shady software on it but I do not see why people should not be allowed to. Think about this:

• Imagine you could only install software from App Store and MS Store on your Mac or PC, do you think that would make your device useful? Do you think that is fair?
• Imagine having to give 30% of your income to some platform (that is insane, I would go bankrupt in a few months or I would have to charge my clients exorbitant amounts to compensate for that).
• Imagine having someone so powerful that he/she/it/they are the ones who decide when your work is approved, how is it approved, how much (indirectly) you can charge for it, when your painstaking work can be pulled or banned and have no option but to comply... on top of all that, you paid a fee to publish your work and still have to pay a portion of your income.
• Imagine having no options, there is no alternative App Store, therefore that right there is anticompetitive. And don't bring the effing typical response of going Android, that is another issue, that is another operative system, I am on iOS and so are some of my other tech. Competing OSes is different to competing Stores.

I may also add that I do not believe App review process to be that rigorous, it is just business.

 

[gavroche]

How is that different from the usage of PCs and Macs? If iOS is so secure what is the risk then? Anyone on this age has at least some literacy on the risks of the net.

I own my iPhone, I paid for it, I should be allowed to decide what to install and what not. I am not planning on installing shady software on it but I do not see why people should not be allowed to. Think about this:

• Imagine you could only install software from App Store and MS Store on your Mac or PC, do you think that would make your device useful? Do you think that is fair?
• Imagine having to give 30% of your income to some platform (that is insane, I would go bankrupt in a few months or I would have to charge my clients exorbitant amounts to compensate for that).
• Imagine having someone so powerful that he/she/it/they are the ones who decide when your work is approved, how is it approved, how much (indirectly) you can charge for it, when your painstaking work can be pulled or banned and have no option but to comply... on top of all that, you paid a fee to publish your work and still have to pay a portion of your income.
• Imagine having no options, there is no alternative App Store, therefore that right there is anticompetitive. And don't bring the effing typical response of going Android, that is another issue, that is another operative system, I am on iOS and so are some of my other tech. Competing OSes is different to competing Stores.

I may also add that I do not believe App review process to be that rigorous, it is just business.

the Mac is less secure. So I would not agree that it’s ok to make the iPhone less secure, because that is the state of the Mac. I wish the Mac was more like the iPhone. If you don’t agree with the walled garden,that’s ok and you have lots of other options. There are lots of Android phones to choose from. People that prefer the walled garden security do NOT have another option. So you are trying to force a change that takes away what to us is preferred, when there is no need. Why are you using an iPhone if the things you say are so important already exist for you to choose.
Is it that some people don’t like others to have choices that don’t jive with their own?

 

[Wildkraut]

I calculated 15% investment/15% profit (from my estimates after reading analyst reports and quarterly financial statements)

Remember when apps used to take 10-14 days to review? I do. And when an app got rejected, it became a death sentence for startups when they had to wait another 5-7 days for another submission. Now it's only 24 hours and a rejection typically adds only 12 hours. And they did that without asking for more cut.

I would rather have more investments into developers than asking for a cut reduction.

Sure, but why review?
Just let some malware scanner run and done... we don't need Apple nanny.

Anyway, I don't mind they reviewing or charging 30% as long there are alternative stores and sideloading, e.g. for self hosting, simply like with macOS.
I have cdn services running already, offering an additional self-hosted iOS app is a no-brainer, and tax services I pay already to my accountant anyway. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Today I went downloaded Blender 2.90, installed, BAMM, done. Where is the issue? Just works!

I say that my computers holds more critical data than my iDevices.
Account data
Projects
Technical specs under NDA
Other private data types
Databases
etc.

These security excuses they keep bringing up is non-sense.

I realize that not everybody wants to deal with all that, but we need alternatives.
With an open platform the iPad also would be already much more advanced (Productivity wise).

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Imagine having to give 30% of your income to some platform (that is insane, I would go bankrupt in a few months or I would have to charge my clients exorbitant amounts to compensate for that).

Let’s say the sales are $10,000 a month and you’re taking in $7,000 a month which, of course, is $84,000 a year. If you go bankrupt on that, then it’s because of OTHER decisions you’ve made (like having a car payment, house payment or discretionary spending of over $7,000 a month and not having any other income). I’d suggest that person should reconsider a future in development.

Really, though, anyone who can’t make money on a 70-30 revenue sharing deal isn’t really capable of running a company. Either your product can’t sell or you’re blowing your money away frivolously.

 

[gavroche]

These security excuses they keep bringing up is non-sense.

I realize that not everybody wants to deal with all that, but we need alternatives.
With an open platform the iPad also would be already much more advanced (Productivity wise).

You say that people need alternatives, yet you are arguing against exactly that. An iPhone with the ability to side load and all of that already exists. it’s called Android. What real feature differences exist apart from those that you want to eliminate. So you want to change iOS to suit your preference, when it’s not necessary because what you want already exists and people can choose. Yet you want to take away the one choice people have that do want the walled garden.
If you want what you want that’s fine... but at least don’t pretend that you are trying to get more alternatives, because you are just arguing to remove the one alternative a great many people prefer.

 

[Wildkraut]

You say that people need alternatives, yet you are arguing against exactly that. An iPhone with the ability to side load and all of that already exists. it’s called Android. What real feature differences exist apart from those that you want to eliminate. So you want to change iOS to suit your preference, when it’s not necessary because what you want already exists and people can choose. Yet you want to take away the one choice people have that do want the walled garden.
If you want what you want that’s fine... but at least don’t pretend that you are trying to get more alternatives, because you are just arguing to remove the one alternative a great many people prefer.

The wallet garden would not stop existing at all, all features would still exist and work as before and intended.
Just with alternatives for who prefers, and who don't simply won't.

 

[I7guy]

The wallet garden would not stop existing at all, all features would still exist and work as before and intended.
Just with alternatives for who prefers, and who don't simply won't.

That alternative appears for android.

 

[2979382]

You are obviously have been living under a rock. Democratization in real world means "sell your country's most valuable assets for peanuts, destroy your manufacturing/economy and buy only imported goods". You are right about the richest 1% though. Let's hope the tide is slowly begin to change.

Quite the opposite. I come from a country that was totalitarian and went through a bloody revolution to get democracy. I've also seen first-hand how democracy can also be badly implemented. My point was that having a beef with companies having monopoly is unjust when it comes from people who themselves are working on getting monopoly from a different angle.

 

[cmaier]

Thats not an enduser and dev friendly method... thats bulling.

Epic isn't looking for anything enduser-friendly. They are looking to line their own pockets.

 

[cinq2]

Apple is tasting its own medicine.

 

[GeoStructural]

Let’s say the sales are $10,000 a month and you’re taking in $7,000 a month which, of course, is $84,000 a year. If you go bankrupt on that, then it’s because of OTHER decisions you’ve made (like having a car payment, house payment or discretionary spending of over $7,000 a month and not having any other income). I’d suggest that person should reconsider a future in development.

Really, though, anyone who can’t make money on a 70-30 revenue sharing deal isn’t really capable of running a company. Either your product can’t sell or you’re blowing your money away frivolously.

In your example you forget to account for: graphic designer, secretary, office rent, utilities, hardware, programmers and many other costs, these apps are not magically conceived.

 

[GeoStructural]

the Mac is less secure. So I would not agree that it’s ok to make the iPhone less secure, because that is the state of the Mac. I wish the Mac was more like the iPhone. If you don’t agree with the walled garden,that’s ok and you have lots of other options. There are lots of Android phones to choose from. People that prefer the walled garden security do NOT have another option. So you are trying to force a change that takes away what to us is preferred, when there is no need. Why are you using an iPhone if the things you say are so important already exist for you to choose.
Is it that some people don’t like others to have choices that don’t jive with their own?

Someone else who didn't get the point... Switching to Android is not an option, that is another Operative System entirely.

By the way, if iOS is the garden of security how do you explain all the tracking, malicious apps and all the times Apple have been caught collecting data?

I'll leave a few reads for you, although I know I am expecting a lot from blind fans:

France fines Apple $1.2 billion for antitrust violations

Just as Apple is forced to close retail stores around the world because of the coronavirus pandemic, it has been hit by a $1 billion blow to its finances.

www.cnn.com

South Korea fines Apple $2,855 over location data

Apple Inc's South Korean unit has been fined 3 million won ($2,855) by the country's communications regulator after the iPhone and iPad maker collected location data from users without proper authorization.

www.reuters.com

How 18 Malware Apps Snuck Into Apple's App Store

Sing it loud: The App Store's not perfect. Especially when it's up against click fraud code this clever.

www.wired.com

New iPhone Threat: These 17 ‘Trojan’ Apps May Be On Your Device—Delete Them Now

iPhone users are being warned about malware within apps from the App Store—here are 17 you should ensure you have not installed.

www.forbes.com

 

[falainber]

Good start, Russia. I hope this law passes. Then other states will be able to see if alternative app stores are as big of a problem as Apple claims they are. If it works in Russia, other countries will probably adopt similar policies.

 

[ian87w]

Good start, Russia. I hope this law passes. Then other states will be able to see if alternative app stores are as big of a problem as Apple claims they are. If it works in Russia, other countries will probably adopt similar policies.

Wait, you want your country to adopt whatever “works” in Russia?

 

[I7guy]

Someone else who didn't get the point... Switching to Android is not an option, that is another Operative System entirely.

By the way, if iOS is the garden of security how do you explain all the tracking, malicious apps and all the times Apple have been caught collecting data?

I'll leave a few reads for you, although I know I am expecting a lot from blind fans:

France fines Apple $1.2 billion for antitrust violations

Just as Apple is forced to close retail stores around the world because of the coronavirus pandemic, it has been hit by a $1 billion blow to its finances.

www.cnn.com

South Korea fines Apple $2,855 over location data

Apple Inc's South Korean unit has been fined 3 million won ($2,855) by the country's communications regulator after the iPhone and iPad maker collected location data from users without proper authorization.

www.reuters.com

How 18 Malware Apps Snuck Into Apple's App Store

Sing it loud: The App Store's not perfect. Especially when it's up against click fraud code this clever.

www.wired.com

New iPhone Threat: These 17 ‘Trojan’ Apps May Be On Your Device—Delete Them Now

iPhone users are being warned about malware within apps from the App Store—here are 17 you should ensure you have not installed.

www.forbes.com

Don't think anyone claimed the system (or Apple) is perfect, as in 100% perfect. But their privacy policies are second to none and that doesn't mean every corner in Apple's huge infrastructure is 100%.

The article from 2011 shows how far one has to reach back to find something,

Do "blind fans" act like "blind critics"?

 

[farewelwilliams]

Sure, but why review?
Just let some malware scanner run and done... we don't need Apple nanny.

Android did this, yet people still got infected.

iOS had some malware, but was disproportionately less than Android (taking size of the userbase into account)

Anyway, I don't mind they reviewing or charging 30% as long there are alternative stores and sideloading, e.g. for self hosting, simply like with macOS.

Economics don’t work when developers optionally choose to pay 30%.

My MacBook currently has a dozen separate self autoupdaters running in the background. Imagine those are running on a 3GB/4GB device with limited battery life.

And segregating 500 million weekly visitors of the App Store to several smaller stores is bad news for developer that prefer the App Store distribution.

I have cdn services running already, offering an additional self-hosted iOS app is a no-brainer, and tax services I pay already to my accountant anyway. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I bet your services don't reach China, you know, the #1 smartphone market currently. Services are typically blocked from China's Great Firewall unless you have an account with a Chinese cloud provider (which typically means you need a Chinese phone number to sign up)

Apple's store reaches China easily. Everything works without modifications too like Apple Maps. Have fun figuring out how to replace Google Maps for your Chinese customers, if they found a way to download your app that is.

Today I went downloaded Blender 2.90, installed, BAMM, done. Where is the issue? Just works!

Installing Blender proves...what? That there are no malware on Macs?

Apple would gladly lose money distributing Blender for free, even if it makes 0 sense to use it on an iPhone.

I say that my computers holds more critical data than my iDevices.
Account data
Projects
Technical specs under NDA
Other private data types
Databases
etc.

These security excuses they keep bringing up is non-sense.

I realize that not everybody wants to deal with all that, but we need alternatives.
With an open platform the iPad also would be already much more advanced (Productivity wise).

Ransomware has been and currently is possible on a Mac.

So far 0 cases from iOS.

 

[Realityck]

Good start, Russia. I hope this law passes. Then other states will be able to see if alternative app stores are as big of a problem as Apple claims they are. If it works in Russia, other countries will probably adopt similar policies.

Don't want this to pass. Look below.

The bill, submitted to Russia's lower house of parliament by lawmaker Fedot Tumusov, stipulates that commissions on the sale of applications be capped at 20%.

The bill, if adopted, would also oblige app sellers to pay a third of their commissions to a special training fund for IT specialists on a quarterly basis.

This is not just a reduction against commission% from the Apple store, but a attempt to have non-russian app sellers pay Russia to fund a special training fund?

 

[Unregistered 4U]

In your example you forget to account for: graphic designer, secretary, office rent, utilities, hardware, programmers and many other costs, these apps are not magically conceived.

Yes, there are costs to doing business. Unless you can find a graphic designer, secretary, and programmers that will work for free, you’ll have to pay them. Unless you can find a place that will give you free rent, utilities included PLUS the hardware you need, you’re going to have to pay for that.

Unless you can find an App Store that will let you make a profit on it for free, you’re going to have to pay for that.

 

[ian87w]

Someone else who didn't get the point... Switching to Android is not an option, that is another Operative System entirely.

By the way, if iOS is the garden of security how do you explain all the tracking, malicious apps and all the times Apple have been caught collecting data?

I'll leave a few reads for you, although I know I am expecting a lot from blind fans:

France fines Apple $1.2 billion for antitrust violations

Just as Apple is forced to close retail stores around the world because of the coronavirus pandemic, it has been hit by a $1 billion blow to its finances.

www.cnn.com

South Korea fines Apple $2,855 over location data

Apple Inc's South Korean unit has been fined 3 million won ($2,855) by the country's communications regulator after the iPhone and iPad maker collected location data from users without proper authorization.

www.reuters.com

How 18 Malware Apps Snuck Into Apple's App Store

Sing it loud: The App Store's not perfect. Especially when it's up against click fraud code this clever.

www.wired.com

New iPhone Threat: These 17 ‘Trojan’ Apps May Be On Your Device—Delete Them Now

iPhone users are being warned about malware within apps from the App Store—here are 17 you should ensure you have not installed.

www.forbes.com

Why is switching to Android not an option? Android has a much larger userbase. Many developers recognize that and have their apps available on Android as well, or even Android exclusive.

And if iOS is so insecure as you pointed out, why are you still on it?

 

[amartinez1660]

Seems like a rather dumb sollution. I understand that Apple has a partial monopoly, but it’s not a complete one: you always have the option of switching to android or a few small other operating systems.
I personally like the idea of a walled garden a lot as it contributes a lot to my digital safety.

Agreed on this one.
Safety and integration I believe. The fact that it’s all overseen by the same parent company makes it so that the ensemble of devices, accessories, services, etc work so well together... and even then it’s buggy at times, can’t imagine how it will be then if/when it becomes a Wild West.
I think that the same happens with the “limited” hardware configuration options... example, get a new iMac, transfer an old one to the new and the chances of it not working (due to missing drivers for example) is close to zero. The mic, speakers, USBs, bluetooth, camera, cpu, gpu and the many hardware drivers are all handled by the OS which knows what device model it’s operating on and which ones it needs exactly.

 

[beanbaguk]

I calculated 15% investment/15% profit (from my estimates after reading analyst reports and quarterly financial statements)

Remember when apps used to take 10-14 days to review? I do. And when an app got rejected, it became a death sentence for startups when they had to wait another 5-7 days for another submission. Now it's only 24 hours and a rejection typically adds only 12 hours. And they did that without asking for more cut.

I would rather have more investments into developers than asking for a cut reduction.

I remember those days well....I released my first app as a Product Owner back in 2010 and the review period was a nightmare. Our app was rejected twice due to various issues which were completely unforeseen and our investors were on us like hawks. I think we were 2 weeks late, but we got there in the end.

I'm not directly involved in app releases now, but reviews generally take about 24-48 hours and can be expedited if necessary due to the industry we're in.

Obviously, this is completely free for Apple and there's no cost there for them accordingly to Epic.

 

[amartinez1660]

Because you can buy games everywhere (retail, craigslist etc.), not only at the e.g. Xbox-Store.


You can already pay at these shops via credit card... so there's no real benefit for them.

What do you mean? Retail stores charge even more to the developer than the online store counterpart plus extra fees for where it’s physically placed on the store shelves themselves. And that’s still without the physical discs/cartridges pressing, packaging, distribution, etc costs that the dev has to run with.
Extrapolate to why PSN, Switch, Xbox stores (and GameStop, and the Walmart section and others) are not getting the same demands.

 

[beanbaguk]

Bet your services doesn't reach China, you know, the #1 smartphone market currently that's also behind the great China firewall.

Apple's store reaches China easily. Everything works without modifications too like Apple Maps. Have fun figuring out how to replace Google Maps for your Chinese customers, if they found a way to download your app that is.

Boosh! Another major one which most "regular" people overlook. I work regularly in the Asia markets including China and I cannot tell you how many issues we have with the Great Firewall of China.

Most 3rd party services do not work, or do so unreliably. Most non-Chinese based CDN's are cut off randomly due to DNS blockages, and unless you have infrastructure in China, it's painfully slow when it does work, so all code needs to be super-optimised.

So imagine hosting a 1GB app on the AppStore. Apple provides the internal Chinese CDN, allowing a fast download. It also offers the excruciatingly expensive bandwidth costs in China, as part of that. It also offers accessibility and the payment means in China. (Have any of your tried working with PSP's in China.....?????? I bet most of you haven't, and it's not even close to what us lucky people in Europe and the US have. Not even close!!!)

So far I see the following costs absorbed by this extortionate 30%....

• Hosting of apps and no additional costs on bandwidth (no matter the size), globally.
• Developer tools and resources
• Rapid approval process
• A solid, reliable and secure payment platform that works globally.
• *Free* use of API's such as Apple Maps, navigation, etc.... (free because if you app is free, you don't pay)
• Access to all their developer networks
• Access to approximately 900 million possible customers for your app, globally.
• The market leading marketplace in the industry. It is without doubt the best one out there.
• A unified platform that allows your apps to be used on 5-year-old and older devices! (The iPhone 6S will support iOS 14 and that's almost 5 years old now! Moreover, my iPad Air (1st gen), still works just fine for my son and is 7 years old! You tell me how many Android devices that have lifetime support?

And Epic wants all of this, for free; Because let's face it, had they really wanted to show themselves as guardians for the consumer, they would have suggested returning a portion of their take to Apple to support the platform, and/or reduced the fees by 30% so there is no additional cost on their fake, and genuinely worthless currency.

Bye bye Epic.