Agreed.....but not this time.
I think the OP's sentiments echo those of many other would-be switchers. The reality is that users pay a premium for Apple hardware/OS X. I don't think that is even arguable.
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Sad ramblings of an almost Apple switcher...
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I think the OP's sentiments echo those of many other would-be switchers. The reality is that users pay a premium for Apple hardware/OS X. I don't think that is even arguable.
It sounds like you made the intelligent choice to be honest.
I would imagine that Apple are aiming to seperate themselves from the likes of HP and Dell. Now I know it makes no sense at all but people automatically tend to think that the more expensive item is better. Look in any shop, you just need to put the word luxury in the title and people will pay a premium for it regardless of how good the cheaper options are.
If Apple move too close to Dell and HP they risk being thrown in with every other PC manuafacturer and that is a tough market to fight in.
Mainly because Apple makes the vast majority of its profit from hardware sales. If they allowed Mac OS X to be installed on generic PCs then a large part of their profit margin would evaporate over night.
No, it's not. Is this a switcher's forum or did I take a wrong turn?
I really do tire of people arguing about the hardware turning them off. I buy Apple because of the software, the hardware just pulls it all together in a neat little package for my working purposes.
Ok, MY rant is finished now.
If I never had a mac..I'd probably never get one. I just happened to stumble across my current machine. You can use windows fine until you've used osx. But once you've used osx...Or even most linux distributions do the trick. I'd consider a T-61...some of the HP laptops are nice. Some suck. It's luck of the draw.
I couldn't agree with you more. If OS X required a toaster then you better believe I'd have one sitting on my desk. LOL I love the looks of my iMac but honestly, it's all about the software/OS as far as I'm concerned.
I'm almost a switcher (gave away my last desktop to my girlfriend, but am holding on to my laptop until after I've got an iMac and Macbook), and I accept that the prices of Macs will be higher. I want them to be lower, but they aint. The cost of the Macs is, for me, entirely offset by the fact that I refuse to have anything to do with supporting Vista. In other words, no Vista is of greater value to me than the higher price of the Macs.
I'm sold; all it took was Microsoft.
Tom
I'm sold; all it took was Microsoft.
Tom
No, it's not. Is this a switcher's forum or did I take a wrong turn?
I really do tire of people arguing about the hardware turning them off. I buy Apple because of the software, the hardware just pulls it all together in a neat little package for my working purposes.
Ok, MY rant is finished now.
I am sick of this argument. I know that is true for a lot of LONG time Mac people, but as someone who switched in 2002 and was a dedicated system builder on the PC side before that, I have to say you are flat out wrong about how people react to Apple as a hardware company. Apple offers the best software on the planet, and that is why 90% of switchers switch. Their hardware is good, great maybe when it first comes out. The problem is that now that they are Intel like everyone else it spends 60% of its time outdated as compared to its cheaper competitors. I continue to argue that if Apple sold its OS seperately, even for $500, twice as many people would switch and at that price it would hardly cannibalize their hardware business.
Until 3 years ago I never owned a Mac ... had to use them at an employers once for a period of a year but that THAT time I thanked god I was an MSCE/CNE. In my work I used to buy a new notebook every year in order to keep up with technology and to avoid issues because I was a rough user.
I retired from IT, and the first year after I went looking for a new notebook.
Prior to this I was buying HP Omnibooks, these were not sold in the normal retail channel and were " network certified ". Those who worked with Windows NT will know what that meant. The Omnibook was expensive but well built, or at least it used to be.
Fast Forward to " no longer working in IT and trying to buy a RETAIL notebook "
I went to Best Buy, Circuit City, and CompUSA looking for a new notebook. Nothing they showed me in the consumer line was good enough, I was after feel, fit and finish.
The last clerk I dealt with at CompUSA told me to " wait here a minute " and he went off to the other side of the store. He came back with a nice aluminum notebook and told me to take a look. Once I put it in my hands and opened it up, my decision was made. I just had to OWN that Apple 15" Powerbook. He warned me that converting over might not be easy, he was right it took me about a month to be totally on the Powerbook for my new line of work. This was about 3 years ago and a decision I will NEVER regret.
Remember I said I was buying a new notebook every year, well I kept that Powerbook for over 2 years. A year after buying the Powerbook my wife gave me the money to buy a new notebook, after all I was buying a new one annually for years. Well I did not tell here I didn't need a new one, instead I went to the Apple Store and bought a G5 Dual-core Powermac.
When the Powerbook was 2 years old I sold it and bought a G5 iMac for 'family' use.
Today the entire family is on Mac computers, and I have to tell you ...
Since the total conversion I have not had to do ANY work on the kids computers, no reinstalls, no " System Restore ". The Apples JUST WORK and thats good enough for me!!!!
The OP has a very good point and I agree fully. I am a recent switcher. I did not switch due to problems with windows computers. I wanted to switch for the sake of trying something new. As an iPod and iPhone user I thought it would make sense to give apple computers a shot. Having bootcamp as a safety net was the deal closer for me. In the market for a new laptop I started doing some comparison pricing. I wanted something light and portable. I compared the MacBook to the XPS 1330. Spec for spec they are price very similar, so I made the switch and have been very happy with my choice! Had the MacBook been alot more expensive I would have passed up on it.
It's a good thing I wasn't looking for a bigger more capable machine though, because the 15" MacBook pro and the XPS 1530 are nowhere near each other. I would have never been able to justify the price difference between them and would have ended up with another windows machine.
The price difference between the MacBook and the MacBook pro is too great IMO.
It's a good thing I wasn't looking for a bigger more capable machine though, because the 15" MacBook pro and the XPS 1530 are nowhere near each other. I would have never been able to justify the price difference between them and would have ended up with another windows machine.
The price difference between the MacBook and the MacBook pro is too great IMO.
Do you know that, refering to the MacBook Air
"The price is competitive with other laptops in its market segment." [CNN.com]
Just because someone cannot afford a Ferrari does not mean it's overpriced.
As someone mentioned, you might be able to get something to have the same horse power as a Ferrari, it's not a Ferrari and it won't handle like a Ferrari.
One example why a mac is superior. Use Geekbench and benchmark same intel mac in OS X vs XP, the same computer running windows only has about 85% processing power of the same computer running OS X. (Vista is even slower than XP).
I can't believe the negativity of those who complain that this thread has no purpose here. Seriously, from a place where there are several hundred posts on a thread for people who want to be on a list to wait for a computer? Or here's my new computer yay! Heaven forbid anyone say anything negative about Apple..
I think it is a reasonable complaint. As it is, you're paying a huge amount for a MBP for technology that is getting rather dated. I'm willing to pay the Apple premium...when the line gets refreshed and I'll wait for it. It seems like a more reasonable value..
I think it is a reasonable complaint. As it is, you're paying a huge amount for a MBP for technology that is getting rather dated. I'm willing to pay the Apple premium...when the line gets refreshed and I'll wait for it. It seems like a more reasonable value..
Concerning the posts that effectively said the hardware didn't matter, and that OS X was their favorite part of Apple, it's worth remembering that Apple is a hardware company first, and an OS company far, far, second. They make the lion's share of their money from selling the computers.
Most of the Rumors in here are pointless and always wrong. So whats your point?
The OP's thread post is stupid. Telling the forum that he was almost a switcher but he found a Dell more suitable for him tells us what???
This forum is for helping people in terms of Macintosh, not to tell us that you just picked up the latest PC because Apple's prices weren't part of your diet. What did you want us to say??? Pointless thread.
I would gladly pay $1000 more for an Apple than a Dell/HP/Compaq/Sony.
Generally, Apple's quality is high (and yes, I've gotten a couple lemons) and I am amazed at the nonsense one must go through to get Windows XP (and Vista, most likely) set up to the point of usability.
That includes:
- Avast
- Hitman Pro or Spybot
- running an immediate defrag because, even after an inital install, things are already fragmented pretty badly
- uninstalling numerous trial software
- running regular scans because something still may have installed itself without your knowledge
I have heard the anecdotal evidence from people stating they don't use AV software on Windows and have never gotten malware, but they are the exception, not the rule.
Forget that. I'd much rather pay $2500 for an excellent, usable computer than $1000 for a computer that needs to be constantly watched with a baby monitor, real-time scans, and nightly or weekly scans.
Generally, Apple's quality is high (and yes, I've gotten a couple lemons) and I am amazed at the nonsense one must go through to get Windows XP (and Vista, most likely) set up to the point of usability.
That includes:
- Avast
- Hitman Pro or Spybot
- running an immediate defrag because, even after an inital install, things are already fragmented pretty badly
- uninstalling numerous trial software
- running regular scans because something still may have installed itself without your knowledge
I have heard the anecdotal evidence from people stating they don't use AV software on Windows and have never gotten malware, but they are the exception, not the rule.
Forget that. I'd much rather pay $2500 for an excellent, usable computer than $1000 for a computer that needs to be constantly watched with a baby monitor, real-time scans, and nightly or weekly scans.
obviously you have never used windows, or if you have, are a complete idiot about how you use the operating system. running status checks and making sure your computer is clean is a little something called maintence and you can't tell me that you don't check your mac every once and while. and if you know what you're doing, you shouldn't be having to do virus scans/spyware scans more than once a month (and even barely that)
also you must be super rich because you're talking a thousand dollars. for that price I'd pledge myself to use windows for the next 10 years (and hell, I might if they don't update the MBP soon)
This is where I tend to agree with the guy dissing the original poster though. MacBook Pros are *not* 1000 bucks more than similarly speced hardware. The OP might have come across genuine and nice etc. but the intention of his post was to take a piece out of Apple and he exaggerated a bit to do it.
This *is* a Mac support forum, it's a community of Mac users and Mac lovers. However politely put, it's kind of lame to post to such a group with a message that "Macs are overpriced."
I certainly could have done without reading this thread and if I wasn't home on a snow day I probably wouldn't have.
Actually, I do IT support, so I know Windows. I even use Windows on occasion at home, since I have a partition installed with Bootcamp and Parallels.
Maintenance is one thing. If a Mac were a car, it'd be like checking your oil or going for your oil change every 3500 miles.
If Windows were a car, you'd have to check your engine and make sure it was working. Hey, is somebody hiding in your back seat? Did someone siphon your gas last night?
You shouldn't be making assumptions calling people idiots. And, while I'm not rich, what I buy is important. I'll pay for quality.
This is where I tend to agree with the guy dissing the original poster though. MacBook Pros are *not* 1000 bucks more than similarly speced hardware. The OP might have come across genuine and nice etc. but the intention of his post was to take a piece out of Apple and he exaggerated a bit to do it.
This *is* a Mac support forum, it's a community of Mac users and Mac lovers. However politely put, it's kind of lame to post to such a group with a message that "Macs are overpriced."
I certainly could have done without reading this thread and if I wasn't home on a snow day I probably wouldn't have.
the price difference between an MBP and XPS of siimilar specifications (15.4", 2.4ghz, 256mb 8600) is around 800-850 dollars.
i'm not sure where this thousand dollar chepaer laptop is though, because I want one
There are dozens of posts alluding to the MBA being overpriced and underpowered compared to other laptops Apple sells. Should we mock those posters too?
There are dozens of posts alluding to the MBA being overpriced and underpowered compared to other laptops Apple sells. Should we mock those posters too?
it's already being done
Not suggesting anyone mock or not mock, just saying that IMO it's a lame thing to do.There are dozens of posts alluding to the MBA being overpriced and underpowered compared to other laptops Apple sells. Should we mock those posters too?
If I really wanted to mock the guy I would (hypothetically you understand), say that it shows a general weakness of character to do something he clearly doesn't want to do (if we believe the stuff about how he really would prefer the MacBook Pro), and then come here looking for a pat on the back or a tummy-rub about his failure.
Wah!
If on the other hand the guy he knew all along he couldn't afford the MacBook Pro, then he is just being disingenuous. So (again only IMO), lame either way.
i don't know really
its not like in his original post he came off in anyway that was saying that apple is a bad company and flaming and that sort of thing
rather, he was just telling a story about how he felt about the current pricing, and was wondering what other people's opinons on the whole issue of it was. I, at least, didn't think that he came in here saying that what you think is wrong and here is the right thing instead. Rather, I feel it came off as a valid question, and people did openly flame and mock him out of pure mac and apple fanboy syndrome.
its not like in his original post he came off in anyway that was saying that apple is a bad company and flaming and that sort of thing
rather, he was just telling a story about how he felt about the current pricing, and was wondering what other people's opinons on the whole issue of it was. I, at least, didn't think that he came in here saying that what you think is wrong and here is the right thing instead. Rather, I feel it came off as a valid question, and people did openly flame and mock him out of pure mac and apple fanboy syndrome.
Wow, I did not expect my OP to spark such a conversation. Again, I wasn't trying to start a flame or make a pointless post. I feel like there are a lot of people who would be willing to give Macs a shot if the premium weren't quite as large.
The "Ferrari vs. Honda" comparison is bunk - the Honda that's 50k cheaper doesn't have the same V12 engine under the hood.
I don't really have much to add beyond my intial post, but I wanted to respond to the suggestion that I exaggerated the price difference. Dell currently has $620 off of M1530's (I assume to clear out the Merom chips in advance of Penryn) and I was then able to add my educational discount on top of that (which is 12% as opposed to Apple's flat $200 on MBP's). All told, I got a laptop with better specs than the 2.4 MBP for $1,400. (Also, 3 year warranty included in the price, not an additional $250 like applecare) So including warranty, the price difference was actually just over $1,000....As much as I wanted to switch, I couldn't justify that right now. Maybe in a few years when I have a well-paying job, but not now.
Also, to those suggesting that I knew I couldn't afford an Apple all along and I was just whining: Originally I was willing to pay the extra, but that was before PC makers started slicing prices on the current models and the price difference became too big to ignore... It's not that I couldn't still afford a MBP if i was desperate for one, I just can no longer justify the price delta. (But you're right, I was whining
)Thanks to the people who recognized the point of my post. Maybe at some point Apple will realize that there's a lot more money to be had in licensing the OS than there is in hardware sales. I'll leave my posting at that, there's no need to continue posting here now that the Mac is officially out. Peace.