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Safari 1.2 Released
- Thread starter Raveny
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: For you ESL students
I thought purchasing Mac OS X Server only entitled you to run one copy of Mac OS X Server and let it be a server for an unlimited number of client Macs, but that you still have to pay for Mac OS X on each client Mac. If not, we oughta get our money back on dozens of iMacs in the computer lab at school, each of which has a purchased copy of Jaguar.
Rower_CPU
Moderator emeritus
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: For you ESL students
Usually that is dependent on a large institution negotiating with the Apple sales rep for your area.
For instance, at my university, we have the Technology Assurance Program (TAP). We pay about $30/CPU for license enrollment and then $10/CPU/year maintenance, plus $15 or so for the media. So, for the 40 or so machines in my department, it's an initial payment of $1200 and then $400 a year afterwards plus the media cost when an update comes out. Since Apple has been updating yearly, it works out to a lot of savings for us.
Usually that is dependent on a large institution negotiating with the Apple sales rep for your area.
For instance, at my university, we have the Technology Assurance Program (TAP). We pay about $30/CPU for license enrollment and then $10/CPU/year maintenance, plus $15 or so for the media. So, for the 40 or so machines in my department, it's an initial payment of $1200 and then $400 a year afterwards plus the media cost when an update comes out. Since Apple has been updating yearly, it works out to a lot of savings for us.
Poff
macrumors 65816
I know I don't know the names and degrees when you educate yourself in that direction, and that was not my point either.
Wouldn't it be possible to monitor what resources Safari uses apart from itself, then somehow emulate these resources? Might be slow as crap, I do not know..
Anyways, I need to learn C for a couple of other projects I'm thinking about. Is the leap from C to C++ big, or is it possible to manage? Seemed like you know some stuff about programming, but sorry for the OT.
john123
macrumors 68030
Re: Re: For you ESL students
The argument I made in my last post stands: if a business spent that money on the hope and the dream that Safari might evolve to fix bugs, and they proceeded with millions of dollars in hardware purchases and web development accordingly....well, whoever made that decision ought to be fired. Patterns of boneheaded decisions like that are why companies go belly-up. If an application/OS combo can't meet your needs at the present, and your business needs are at the present, then you need to find another application/OS combo that does work for you. This is just common sense...
(N.B. To your credit, I think you make the argument about as well as it can be made. Most of the posts in this thread reek of "I'm entitled and I'm angry." But I really think you're just on the wrong side of the debate on this one...)
For once, we agree. I personally wouldn't deploy Macs in an enterprise environment.
I know what you said. My point was that to make your argument, you're taking a somewhat narrow view of the landscape. If you simply wrap your mind around the issue differently -- that you can buy Safari 1.2 for $129 -- it suddenly solves all the issues you're talking about. It's just not a "free" web browser anymore.
Exactly -- but that's the case for you. For some other people, the browser plus the Panther extras suddenly justify the $129.
Nope, they don't. Then again, if you have a problem with one of these browsers in terms of compatiblity, features, etc., you can report it to the developer, but there's no telling whether your desired bug fix or feature will be incorporated or not. Unlike a boxed app that you pay for, your "entitlement" to support pretty much disappears with browsers. I've LONG had browser compatibility issues with IE, Safari, Camino, Omniweb, Gecko/Netscape, and others with some sites, but I just accept the limitations of having a browser on the Mac. I don't pitch a fit about it.
The argument I made in my last post stands: if a business spent that money on the hope and the dream that Safari might evolve to fix bugs, and they proceeded with millions of dollars in hardware purchases and web development accordingly....well, whoever made that decision ought to be fired. Patterns of boneheaded decisions like that are why companies go belly-up. If an application/OS combo can't meet your needs at the present, and your business needs are at the present, then you need to find another application/OS combo that does work for you. This is just common sense...
(N.B. To your credit, I think you make the argument about as well as it can be made. Most of the posts in this thread reek of "I'm entitled and I'm angry." But I really think you're just on the wrong side of the debate on this one...)
frankly
macrumors 6502a
I'm not sure you understand the meaning of emulate. I think that you are thinking that you could somehow just tell the program that the resources it needs are there so it will launch and then just let it run slow. There are a couple of problems with this. First of all, the program doesn't just need to "think" the resources are there. It has to actually use them which means that the code of Safari will call code that is part of Panther.
Let me see if I can simplify this a little. Let's say I'm writing a small program like a tic tac toe game or something that is less than 1000 line of code. Now, when I am writing this I will most likely divide the code into several files so that it would be easier to work with. One file might take care of the game logic. Another file would display the game on the screen, etc. Now, this simple program would most likely make calls to files that others have already written. For example, if someone else has already written the interface elements I would simply import their code to prevent me from reinventing the wheel. An example of this would be when using Java if I were to import javax.swing which includes interface elements such as labels, check boxes, text boxes, etc.
Now, if we extrapolate this to Safari let's assume that a major part of the Safari rendering engine is now part of 10.3 and it has seen a major update since the rendering engine that was part of Safari 1.0. Since this egine is now a part of 10.3 we are assuming that it is tied to the OS itself and is using improvements that are a part of Panther. So, the newest versions of Safari are now making calls to code that is included with Panther. In order for this software to work with Jaguar you would have to have the parts that are integrated into Panther. The problem is that the parts you are calling in Panther are most likely making calls themselves to other parts of Panther. If this is the case then all of these calls would have to be rewritten to make calls to parts in Jaguar or more likely the parts that are being called are probably not included with Jaguar and these would have to be written. This is a slippery slope that could cause bugs to enter Jaguar and force an update to that OS just to get Safari to work with it.
Now, keep in mind that the entire last paragraph includes a lot of assumptions on my part. In fact, I don't have any idea if this is the case and it could be that Apple simply does not want to make new versions of Safari compatible with Jaguar. I only included this so that people that don't have programming experience would realize that if in fact Safari is now using elements that are built into Panther it would not be as simple as they are suggesting to make it compatible with Jaguar.
Later, Frank
P.S. In reference to your C to C++ question: it is not hard to go from C to C++ if you are still doing procedural programming. C is a procedural programming language while C++ is an object oriented programming language. If you want to write a procedural program it would be very similar whether you wrote it in C or C++. Object oriented programming is an entirely different animal and requires an understanding all on its own regardless of which language you use it with (C++, Java, Objective-C, etc.)
Poff
macrumors 65816
A good post, I must say. Guess this thread is a bit out-dated now, but I´ll reply anyways.
I didn´t think of the fact that other programs might call the same parts of the OS, but it should be possible to make the new-written parts of the OS accessible only to Safari, I guess. Btw. is Safari still open source? Like, the parts in the OS too, not just Safari the app? Because then it should be far easier to make a Jag version.
I think I like the idea of object-oriented programming, but still need to learn C first.. (Some projects for Palm, and as I can understand from their developer connection, making a program in C will result in lower file-sizes, since all other languages need some kind of support-files, stand-alone or built into the program.)
frankly
macrumors 6502a
Sorry this is off topic but it was too long to send in a private message:
Object-oriented programming is very nice. However, it does take longer to learn and much longer to learn to do it well. If you are really interested in trying it out I would highly recommend going with Java and I recommend the book "Head First Java."
Now, if you want to program for the Palm platform there are two issues to consider:
1) C is the best language to use for speed and the largest number of developer tools because it is the language used to build the OS.
2) If you have a newer Palm with sufficient speed an memory (or that is the market you are after) then I would recommend Java because your applications would also be portable to Java enabled cell phones which are becoming very commonplace in the market.
I am currently working on the project for my Master's Degree in Computer Science and it involves developing games for cell phones and handheld devices using J2ME (Java 2 Mobile Edition). It is a very nice language and has a lot of built in classes (code) that enable you to do an awful lot right out of the box.
I am also partial to Java because I love the built in documentation that is included with the language (a.k.a. API). Also, anything that you write for a handheld device (or cell phone) in Java would be very easy to port to a regular computer.
Are you just planning to try to learn some programming in your spare time or are you planning to take it up in school? Let me know if you have any questions?
Later, Frank
Photorun
macrumors 65816
Is everyone done whining about Safari yet or what? Hey look, my iBook still running Jaguar runs Safari 1.0 GREAT! Oh my god, it's amazing, it works as well as I remember it. Oh and hey, my G5 runs Safari 1.2 great as well. Would you check that out. Two very different systems (they are under the hood), two browsers, and I'm not bitching.
End of argument.
End of argument.
janey
macrumors 603
ahhh 😛
i thought this thread died.
i dont know that much about programming i guess. more than my friends, but then again we're all in high school. i'm taking a c programming class right now. i only know a handful of programming and markup languages.
anyway...c to c++ isnt big. like everyone before me said.
and to frankly:
Code:
#include <stdio.h>
void main() {
printf("werd.\n");
}john123
macrumors 68030
I gotta say -- for everyone ticked off with Safari: have you tried all the other browsing options?
I've been using FireFox for the last day or so and think it rocks...more compatible with several sites that I go to a lot.
I'm switching over to it permanently as soon as I move over my bookmarks.
I've been using FireFox for the last day or so and think it rocks...more compatible with several sites that I go to a lot.
I'm switching over to it permanently as soon as I move over my bookmarks.
Yeah, I too am enjoying FireFox. I like the pinstripe theme they are using for the Mac OS X version. Seems to be pretty snappy on Comcast broadband too. (Unlike IE which still manages to feel like molasses even on broadband.) Like most programs, manual window resizes are a bit slow but the scroll speed is top notch and I've found the compatibility and rendering to be great.
john123
macrumors 68030
That's been my experience too. I had used Chimera/Camino a little over a year ago -- in pre-Safari times. I liked it, really disliked Netscape, and was swayed by Safari.
I don't know whether FireBird and previous iterations were as cool as FireFox, but man...this thing kicks Safari's butt....