Sale of 'Silent AirTags' on eBay and Etsy Raises Privacy Concerns

[SantaFeNM]

So can AirPods in their case be used as a tracking device without signaling to someone that they are being tracked? Yes, it's bulkier than an AirTag. If the case is fully charged, I would think the battery would last a long time as well. I can't tell from Apple's Find My AirPods article if that's how it would work. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207581

 

[TheMountainLife]

I wasn't aware they beep when the owner has been away for a period of time. If its attached to my dog and I leave for a trip is it going to annoy my dogsitter?

Currently I use my tag for luggage but considered a 2nd one for the dog since a Rover sitter lost him once.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

So can AirPods in their case be used as a tracking device without signaling to someone that they are being tracked? Yes, it's bulkier than an AirTag. If the case is fully charged, I would think the battery would last a long time as well. I can't tell from Apple's Find My AirPods article if that's how it would work. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207581

I would assume it’s “possible” as anything with firmware can be re-firmware’d. But, it may be like replacing the RAM in an M1 system. Sure, you CAN, but at that level of cost and effort, who would do it?

 

[LexxR]

What I find interesting is why Samsung smarttag doesn't get any attention (they are completely silent only bad thing about then they aren't waterproof, I find there are enough samsung phones with offline finding enabled for it to work, still not as dense as iPhone/ipads in use)

I use both airtag (magnet removed to disable speaker on far away items, taken apart without drilling holes or snapping the tabs off so still has its ip rating) wish airtag had built in key chain hole (stupid you have to pay £5-20 for a stupid key chain that might not securely hold the tag anyway)

and Samsung smarttag, I like to get smarttag+ for the UMB but unsure of battery life and need an s21+ to even use UMB, s21 annoyingly doesn't have UMB (I assume the base model s22 has UMB support) I don't want phone to be larger then s9 phone (the plus phones are to big for use when doing delivery's, they are also going to get a surprised the next time someone steals a food delivery bag from me or the shop I worked for when 20 people turn up at there house)

 

[SantaFeNM]

I would assume it’s “possible” as anything with firmware can be re-firmware’d. But, it may be like replacing the RAM in an M1 system. Sure, you CAN, but at that level of cost and effort, who would do it?

What I was wondering, is if it's already baked-in using Find My? No modifications needed?

 

[Bmoreguy03]

this is crazy

 

[Unregistered 4U]

What I was wondering, is if it's already baked-in using Find My? No modifications needed?

OH, not changing the AirPods in any way just doing “Find My” on them and finding their location. Yes, I believe that’s quite possible and they are not configured to “ping” when you’re looking for them. And, when they’re in their case, they don’t show up as an AirPlay option. Seems to me that an enterprising thief (that’s already decided to go “luxury tracker” with the fairly expensive Air Tag, MIGHT just want to spring for a pair of AirPods Pro with the wired charge case, a lightning cable, and a small 10,000 mAh battery.

Added bonus? When they find them you can say, “OOHHHHHHH that’s where I left my headphones! I’ve been looking for those! And my battery pack, too? What a GREAT DAY today and THANKS for finding them ”

 

[SantaFeNM]

OH, not changing the AirPods in any way just doing “Find My” on them and finding their location. Yes, I believe that’s quite possible and they are not configured to “ping” when you’re looking for them. And, when they’re in their case, they don’t show up as an AirPlay option. Seems to me that an enterprising thief (that’s already decided to go “luxury tracker” with the fairly expensive Air Tag, MIGHT just want to spring for a pair of AirPods Pro with the wired charge case, a lightning cable, and a small 10,000 mAh battery.

Added bonus? When they find them you can say, “OOHHHHHHH that’s where I left my headphones! I’ve been looking for those! And my battery pack, too? What a GREAT DAY today and THANKS for finding them ”

Yeah, unless I'm missing something, even 2nd Generation AirPods (Pros not necessary) have the ability to do what AirTags do. So the arguments about AirTags being a stalking device would apply to AirPods, no?

 

[DocMultimedia]

The world is no longer a piece for sanity.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

The world is no longer a piece for sanity.

I think it’s just as much a place for sanity as it ever was, it’s just that now, there are people that make LOTS of money on bringing all the insanity right in front of your eyeballs. It’s not that AirTags are especially dangerous (and, they’re actually especially not dangerous as they’ll ping people), it’s that AirTags being dangerous IS an especially good combination for bringing lots and lots of page views.

 

[Daws]

Version 2 should include some sort of microphone as well, it would make it more useful and Apple could probably charge a little more for that version

Useful as a bug that people could plant anywhere to hear conversations of unsuspecting people?

 

[antiprotest]

Um if stalkers don't want Apple to snitch...just buy Tiles?

 

[alexandr]

Not surprised at all the best solution is to not leave your home. This is just an open door to invade your privacy. Hopefully, Apple steps it up and shuts it down.

Pretty sure Apple will find a way to detect a disabled speaker via firmware update.

I thought you meant apple will find a way to keep everyone inside their houses...

 

[alexandr]

I have a silent AirTag.

...Except it's because the speaker broke rather than malicious intent, I'm guessing the jostling of my keys made that happen. I gotta get it fixed/replaced.

You gotta sell it on eBay, that's what you gotta do ))

 

[mikethemartian]

I wasn't aware they beep when the owner has been away for a period of time. If its attached to my dog and I leave for a trip is it going to annoy my dogsitter?

Currently I use my tag for luggage but considered a 2nd one for the dog since a Rover sitter lost him once.

I just bought a Whistle Go Explore GPS locator for my pet. It is more expensive than an AirTag and you need to get a cellular plan for $100 per year, but it does an excellent job of tracking.

 

[3460169]

What Apple needs to do is have some kind of firmware lock so that when the speaker is disabled, the device bricks itself. Simple. Is that possible? Not a programmer, so I don't know if this would be foolproof, or easily overcome?

It's highly likely that the current hardware revision of the AirTag doesn't have the logic (from an electrical engineering perspective) to "know" if the speaker is physically there or not. Speakers themselves aren't electrically complex; they're connected to ground and a voltage source (e.g. 2 wires) and that's about it. One might infer that the hardware logic of the AirTag could check if the speaker circuit is closed, but then you'd just need one extra step after taking out the speaker: short the speaker's ground and voltage lines in the tag to keep the circuit closed.

I'm not sure what kind of magical Apple  hardware concoction they'd need to brew up to detect, reliably, if the speaker is disabled, but somehow I'm pretty sure it can't be done with the current hardware.

 

[mikethemartian]

What Apple needs to do is have some kind of firmware lock so that when the speaker is disabled, the device bricks itself. Simple. Is that possible? Not a programmer, so I don't know if this would be foolproof, or easily overcome?

You can’t just do that with software, you need some type of physical sensor. Maybe it is possible for them to measure an impedance change when part of the speaker assembly is missing.

 

[mikethemartian]

Except they aren't modifying personal property here. They are buying a product, modifying it and reselling it using the Apple Airtag name in their marketing. Your comment is talking about something completely different than what I am talking about.

AirTags are absolutely personal property. There are two types of property rights: real property and personal property. AirTags are tangible personal property (chattel) of the person who bought them or was gifted them by the purchaser. Once Apple or a retail store sells you an AirTag, iPhone, etc. they lose all their property rights in the chattel and those property rights go to you. Apple or Walmart cannot tell you what you can do or not do with the devices they sell you. If you want to modify and resell them you are free to do so. The only restrictions would come from laws such as those prohibiting using them to make bombs, etc.

 

[ellsworth]

This is what happens when you allow millions to open Pandora's Box all at the same time.
P.S. The can silent the AirTag but they can't silence the communication/message that iphones receive when an unwanted Airtag is detected. I give it another year'ish before Apple cancels this product and shuts down the entire operation.

 

[RickDEGH]

Humans lived uncomplicated and survived without these products. All of a sudden we need them, to be able to live! We forget how we lived without such a product. I’m guilty as well as I own one. But other than the engraving I put on it, it’s been completely redundant. Waste of 35€! For most this is just a fad!

 

[incoherent_1]

I tried removing a speaker from one of my AirTags to see how hard it was...

Turned out it was easy. Took me literally five minutes and didn't even break anything on the tag. It was pry-open, peal-off speaker, click back shut. I followed this video:

Thanks. Best post of the year for me. I'm so happy to be able to un-gimp the devices I paid good money for that are now useless to me. Apple really pooped the bed with all these ridiculous post-launch updates.

 

[Shanghaichica]

What I find interesting is why Samsung smarttag doesn't get any attention (they are completely silent only bad thing about then they aren't waterproof, I find there are enough samsung phones with offline finding enabled for it to work, still not as dense as iPhone/ipads in use)

I use both airtag (magnet removed to disable speaker on far away items, taken apart without drilling holes or snapping the tabs off so still has its ip rating) wish airtag had built in key chain hole (stupid you have to pay £5-20 for a stupid key chain that might not securely hold the tag anyway)

and Samsung smarttag, I like to get smarttag+ for the UMB but unsure of battery life and need an s21+ to even use UMB, s21 annoyingly doesn't have UMB (I assume the base model s22 has UMB support) I don't want phone to be larger then s9 phone (the plus phones are to big for use when doing delivery's, they are also going to get a surprised the next time someone steals a food delivery bag from me or the shop I worked for when 20 people turn up at there house)

Yes why aren’t Samsung and tile and the makers of all those shady tracking apps being called out on this. It’s hypocrisy.

 

[yabeweb]

I'm curious how many things were stolen because of Tile. Tiles don't have speakers, or notifications that you are being stalked. My guess is that bad people have been tracking people with Tile and other trackers since the beginning, and nobody knew about it. Apple's solution to tracking (with privacy in mind) shed a light on what was happening.

Nobody uses tile anyway so it was a non issue I guess.

 

[wigby]

This is a product Apple should pull and destroy the inventory of.

A horrible set of unanticipated consequences has appeared.

Please admit you didn't see it coming and stop selling these.

You also just described the personal computer, internet and just about every other technological invention ever introduced. Why stop at Apple?

 

[discuit]

It's highly likely that the current hardware revision of the AirTag doesn't have the logic (from an electrical engineering perspective) to "know" if the speaker is physically there or not. Speakers themselves aren't electrically complex; they're connected to ground and a voltage source (e.g. 2 wires) and that's about it. One might infer that the hardware logic of the AirTag could check if the speaker circuit is closed, but then you'd just need one extra step after taking out the speaker: short the speaker's ground and voltage lines in the tag to keep the circuit closed.

I'm not sure what kind of magical Apple  hardware concoction they'd need to brew up to detect, reliably, if the speaker is disabled, but somehow I'm pretty sure it can't be done with the current hardware.

Even when you remove the speaker itself the coil (complete circuit) remains- and it actually makes a very faint sound still! You have to hold it directly up to your ears to hear it, but it's there. In order to completely silence it you have to remove the coil, which most people who remove the speaker don't bother to do. My point is it's even harder that one might think to detect that the speaker is removed (with the current hardware design.)